VFL Peyton Manning to be honored by Colts

#1
Hacksaw

Hacksaw

BELIEVE THE HEUP!
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#1
Colts to unveil Peyton Manning statue, retire No. 18 in October

Peyton_042515.jpg
 
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#2
#2
Figure Denver will eventually as well.

Anyone still want to argue Peyton is the GOAT?
 
#6
#6
volfanhill said:
It's Brady and then everyone else. Flame away.
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Brady, Manning, then everyone else.

i won't put manning ahead of Brady at this point anymore.

but i can't say any one else is better than Manning.

brady, manning, montana, elway, unitas, favre, bradshaw, marino, staubach, starr...basically in that order imo. you can jumble up the names after elway, and it won't bother me, you may have others in or around the top 5 or 10, but that top 4 is pretty solid imo.
 
#8
#8
Peyton played 17 seasons and Brady has played 17 seasons. Brady has more rings, because he has played on better TEAMS. But he will have to play 20 seasons at his current level of production to have a chance to surpass Peyton's individual stats at the QB position.

Remember, we're talking about the best at the position, not the guy who played for the best coach or on the best teams.

Brady isn't even the 2nd best QB of his era, IMO -- Drew Brees is.
 
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#9
#9
Hacksaw said:
Peyton played 17 seasons and Brady has played 17 seasons. Brady has more rings, because he has played on better TEAMS. But he will have to play 20 seasons at his current level of production to have a chance to surpass Peyton's individual stats at the QB position.

Remember, we're talking about the best at the position, not the guy who played for the best coach or on the best teams.

Brady isn't even the 2nd best QB of his era, IMO -- Drew Brees is.
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it's all debatable, depending on how one wants to view it.

but in the end, all that really happens is that at worst you're talking about what many will consider the 2nd best QB....OF ALL TIME.

even those that will prop up brady over manning...it's not like they're saying it's not a conversation or that manning is no good.

point being, it's completely subjective, and you won't have this conversation.....w/out having manning at or near the top of the discussion.:thumbsup:
 
#10
#10
volfanhill said:
It's Brady and then everyone else. Flame away.
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Stats wise, perhaps.

But there will only ever be one Peyton with the all around person concept. I look beyond the football field and see what he is to the game itself and the community as a whole. That's why he is and always will be the greatest in my eyes.
 
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#11
#11
I'm not saying one is better than the other, but when are people going to realize football is different? You can't rank the greatest individual players on team accomplishments alone. In this sport you rank teams by wins. You rank individual players by a combination of things. It is a team sport. Quarterbacks can only affect one half of the game and have no control over the other. This isn't basketball. Brady consistently had a better defense. When Peyton finally had a defense that showed up in the postseason, he won his first Super Bowl. When Peyton finally had an elite defense, he won his second even though it was one of his worst individual seasons. Either way, I'm just glad I was able to witness the greatest player rivalry in the history of the sport. Both are legends.
 
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#17
#17
I think it's Montana, Brady, and PM switch them however you wish. But stats are not an individual accomplishment, you need a good/great line, WRs/TEs, and/or RB. So if you are going to knock Bradys rings because of having a better team, which is fair. You should acknowledge that PM had better offensive weapons, that aided in his incredible passing stats.
 
#18
#18
BadJerry20 said:
I think it's Montana, Brady, and PM switch them however you wish. But stats are not an individual accomplishment, you need a good/great line, WRs/TEs, and/or RB. So if you are going to knock Bradys rings because of having a better team, which is fair. You should acknowledge that PM had better offensive weapons, that aided in his incredible passing stats.
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You make a good point. Ultimately, it's a team sport. They do keep statistics that are meant to assess individual production, but a QB cannot complete a pass without someone else getting a reception, etc.

I just think wins and losses can really only be considered as TEAM accomplishments. And championships are the ultimate TEAM accomplishment.

Joe Montana is always the vogue choice that people like to bring up and he was surrounded by future HOF'ers. But I'm not knocking either his or Brady's championships. If the debate is most successful QB, then you'll get no arguments from me.
 
#19
#19
Hacksaw said:
You make a good point. Ultimately, it's a team sport. They do keep statistics that are meant to assess individual production, but a QB cannot complete a pass without someone else getting a reception, etc.

I just think wins and losses can really only be considered as TEAM accomplishments. And championships are the ultimate TEAM accomplishment.

Joe Montana is always the vogue choice that people like to bring up and he was surrounded by future HOF'ers. But I'm not knocking either his or Brady's championships. If the debate is most successful QB, then you'll get no arguments from me.
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I agree with Wins and loses, and championships. Its really hard to judge all the different aspects, that's why I've pretty much switched to just a top 3.

One misconception about Joe BTW, he only played with 3 HOFers, 4 if you count Young. Rice, Dean and Lott. When all is said and done PM and Brady will have played with as many, probably more than Joe did.


Of course to be fair one of Joe's HOF'ers was the guy at the position, that there really isn't a debate as to who is the GOAT in Rice.
 
#20
#20
The statue better be larger than human size. Otherwise it will be an insult.
 
#21
#21
Peyton was a #1 draft pick who inherited a struggling franchise ran by clowns. Brady got 3 rings while he was on the job training.

I still don't like the way that coke head in Indy did Peyton.
 
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#22
#22
BadJerry20 said:
I agree with Wins and loses, and championships. Its really hard to judge all the different aspects, that's why I've pretty much switched to just a top 3.

One misconception about Joe BTW, he only played with 3 HOFers, 4 if you count Young. Rice, Dean and Lott. When all is said and done PM and Brady will have played with as many, probably more than Joe did.


Of course to be fair one of Joe's HOF'ers was the guy at the position, that there really isn't a debate as to who is the GOAT in Rice.
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Montana, like Brady, played for the dominant team of his era. Brady has definitely played for the best head coach and Montana arguably did. Bill Walsh is also in the HOF and so is the SF owner from that era, Eddie DeBartolo. Joe played with the HOF'ers you mentioned, plus Charles Haley. He also had a lot more roster stability, with guys like Eric Wright, Keena Turner, Guy McIntyre, John Taylor, Dwight Clark, Roger Craig, Brent Jones and many more playing the majority of their careers in the same organization. So I think it's fair to say he had a lot of advantages and support.

Like Peyton, Joe went from his original team to another playoff team. And Joe came close to being the only QB ever to win 2 SBs with 2 different teams. But he failed to do that, so Peyton became that guy.

Lots of subjective criteria and good arguments to be made on all sides. I just think it's hard to say anyone has ever played the position better than Peyton.
 
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#23
#23
I'm not arguing Joe had talent around, just a peeve of mine when people say he was surrounded by HOF'ers when he wasn't anymore than Brady and Manning will eventually be. All 3 guys were surrounded by a lot of talent over their careers. I mean Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Freeney, Mathis, James, Addai, Saturday, not counting the guys he had in Denver briefly, are all really good to great players. Though I think Tom had the least talent of the 3 offensively. Manning by far had the worst coach, as the other 2 had maybe the 2 greatest coaches of all time.


I'm not arguing for or against anybody really, like you said there are just so many different angles to look at it from, its a fun conversation to breakdown. If it was up to me I'd call Young the greatest, oddly enough I wasn't the biggest fan of Joe, but I loved me some Steve Young. Lol
 
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#24
#24
It is kind of poetic in a way, that after years of carrying a meh defense to win after win, that PMs last Super Bowl was him finally get carried by a great D. Before anyway punches me, thats not a slight. Lol
 
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#25
#25
BadJerry20 said:
It is kind of poetic in a way, that after years of carrying a meh defense to win after win, that PMs last Super Bowl was him finally get carried by a great D. Before anyway punches me, thats not a slight. Lol
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No, that's the truth. And I don't think it tarnishes that 2nd SB in the least. Because, as I have said, winning championships is a team accomplishment. He played his role on that team and it was enough to get the job done.

I also agree with you that it's a fun topic of conversation.
 
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