UT's QB quagmire

#27
#27
Our QB's haven't been a problem until recently. Casey Clausen and Ainge were fine. Rick Clausen, Crompton, Stevens, Coleman, Simms -- well, lets just say we have struggled.

Simms has been ok. He is never going to dominate a game and win one for us. He just doesn't have the skills to do it. Bray seems to have a lot of skills, but he is very young and inexperienced. I personally like the idea of getting Bray more reps, starting him against memphis and have him ready to roll next year. He is going to make a lot of mistakes and he needs to get better, but he seems to have more natural ability.

I like Simms's toughness and all, but he just doesn't seem to have the skill set to be a great QB, and I'm not sure he is going to be an average QB from what I have seen.

With all this said, QB hasn't been our biggest problem. Our D is atrocious and our O-line isn't very good. I have seen some improvement in our O-Line, but the D just stinks
 
#28
#28
bigdaddy said:
My opinion is that if he can't even read the play from the sideline, don't put him in the game
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Good point, it's hard to argue with that opinion. I still can't say I don't agree with coaches deciding to play him more. I do believe these are things he can work through in a short amount of time. He needs reps, reps, reps. I don't think we win if Simms plays the whole game against Bama, so I don't think it hurt us to give him the priceless game experience against the best D he has ever seen. I'm sure he got more out of it than any of us can imagine. From what I hear he is a good scrambler with amazing accuracy. I hope those reports are right. Getting the plays called correctly is the easy part. (I hope it's proves to be easier than getting 11 men on the field defensively) Scrambling and accuracy issues aren't as easy to coach through.
 
#29
#29
JTrainDavis said:
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I was waiting for this.
 
#30
#30
EZE said:
Bray will start against Memphis through the end of the season IMO. He will get significant minutes against the Lamecocks as well.
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I agree completely. My 10 year old has consistenly been hard on Simms and wanting Bray to start. I have been telling him this was what was going to happen all along. Let Simms get us through the roughest part of the year and take the beatings then hand it to Bray. They want Bray to have a significant chance to win the game and maybe the next before they start him because a young qb's psyche can be a delicate thing. We havent had a two game stretch where that was a possibility until after this week and that is still a big maybe right now.
 
#31
#31
I say you just put the names of all 7 QBs on the roster into a hat and pick one.

Winner winner, chicken dinner.
 
#32
#32
reeceb73 said:
Our QB's haven't been a problem until recently. Casey Clausen and Ainge were fine. Rick Clausen, Crompton, Stevens, Coleman, Simms -- well, lets just say we have struggled.

Simms has been ok. He is never going to dominate a game and win one for us. He just doesn't have the skills to do it. Bray seems to have a lot of skills, but he is very young and inexperienced. I personally like the idea of getting Bray more reps, starting him against memphis and have him ready to roll next year. He is going to make a lot of mistakes and he needs to get better, but he seems to have more natural ability.

I like Simms's toughness and all, but he just doesn't seem to have the skill set to be a great QB, and I'm not sure he is going to be an average QB from what I have seen.

With all this said, QB hasn't been our biggest problem. Our D is atrocious and our O-line isn't very good. I have seen some improvement in our O-Line, but the D just stinks
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Valid points through out. I do appreciate the feedback. I do think it will take both Simms and Bray to finish the season. I do tend to agree with those who think Bray is in a little over his head for now, so I think too much playing time could be a bad thing. I think we will see him gradually get more and more playing time if he can handle it. Most people seem to think he can, so let's hope they're right.
I do think we have seen some suspect coaching at times. This QB discussion is assuming this coaching staff is as talented as they are hyped to be. I am, for lack of arguments sake, trusting they are. (All of the assistants do seem to be qualified and very intelligent. There are too many differing opinions about Dooley, so I won't comment there) If they are, then IMO, the QB position is our biggest challenge to return to dominance.
 
#33
#33
As of right now, wether it's right or wrong, there are still goals to play at this point in the season. Money that goes with the bowls will keep Simms as our starter, but as soon as we lose that 7th game, i'd guess that they start looking to the future with Bray. (if he wants to stay here) I disagree with the above statement about Fulmer being responsible for what is going on right now. Did he have a couple bad recruiting classes in his last few years? Yes, but looking back at history, all major schools, and all legendary coaches, have a run of bad luck, then they are right back in the mix. We have lost 38 players since Fulmer left, some due to coaching changes, some to academics, some to disciplinary issues, and.An untold ammounts of recruits have deceided NOT to come here. If you really think about the number 38 players. Thats almost a whole new 1st and 2nd string at every position. I wish I knew the names of those players, I could go back and plug them into their respective positions and imagine where we'd be.
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#34
#34
Joe Vols said:
UT's coaches and fans find themselves in an all too familiar postion at QB. We haven't had a QB who could consistently put scoring drives together since Peyton Manning. We won the NC with Tee Martin, but even that year was hit and miss offensively and won with a very stingy D. (edited in: To give T credit, he did put drives together when they counted, and that's pretty much all you can ask from a QB)

So do we stick with Simms for 2 years and then hand a very experienced offensive team over to an inexperienced QB in 2012?

Or do we start that transition earlier by giving Bray more reps now, hoping he develops into the player everyone thinks he will eventually be?

To be quite honest, if I were Dooley and staff, I would play for 2012 and 2013, because those are the seasons which will ultimately define this coaching staff, not 2010 and 2011.

I hope this staff is building a future program and not trying to patch together season after season by being short sighted. That's what Fulmer was forced to do to keep his job and what Kiffin did to try to repair his tarnished reputation. Those guys both felt like they had something to prove. IMO short sighted thinking got us into this position, but long term planning will get us out of it. So for those reasons alone, do I support the decision of this staff to get Bray more and more reps. Not based on his performance so far, but based on hopefully his upside potential.

I think we all know that our best chances to turn the corner are 2012 and 2013, so let's not lose sight of that. Simms hasn't been bad, but unfortunately for him he can't help us lead when we will need it most 2012. It's more of a timing issue than a talent issue.

Your thoughts:
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Casey Clausen was a damn good QB at UT.
 
#35
#35
Dooley needs time to see what he really wants to do with the team and I'm not sure playing an inexperienced QB will help him see the full picture
 
#36
#36
lego126 said:
As of right now, wether it's right or wrong, there are still goals to play at this point in the season. Money that goes with the bowls will keep Simms as our starter, but as soon as we lose that 7th game, i'd guess that they start looking to the future with Bray. (if he wants to stay here) I disagree with the above statement about Fulmer being responsible for what is going on right now. Did he have a couple bad recruiting classes in his last few years? Yes, but looking back at history, all major schools, and all legendary coaches, have a run of bad luck, then they are right back in the mix. We have lost 38 players since Fulmer left, some due to coaching changes, some to academics, some to disciplinary issues, and.An untold ammounts of recruits have deceided NOT to come here. If you really think about the number 38 players. Thats almost a whole new 1st and 2nd string at every position. I wish I knew the names of those players, I could go back and plug them into their respective positions and imagine where we'd be.
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I have too much respect for Fulmer and the NC he gave UT for this to turn into a Fulmer bashing session. I do think he was forced his last 3- 4 years to play for right now. When you are coaching for right now or else, you make different decisions than you normally would. Long term thinking gives way to short term patches. Well thought out decisions become moves of desperation. I think this can be said of anyone who is put into a do or die situation. You are forced to gamble, sometimes you win, unfortunately for Fulmer, he lost his bets. We can't get stuck in our past failures, we have to look towards the future successes this program will hang its hat on. GBO
 
#37
#37
This is a very educated group of posters. I meant no disrespect by failing to mention some of your favorite players or QB's. I do agree that winning is more intangible than 1 player on the field. I also believe it is almost impossible, if not impossible, to win in the SEC without a really consistent, solid, and accurate QB.

I look back at this weekends game and to me the real game changers were great pass and catches on the Alabama side of the ball, where they converted by making great plays and then went on to score soon after. If they don't make 2 great plays the game would have ended very diferently. The play by Jones on the 2 yard line was just short of spectacular, and like a dagger.
 
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#38
#38
Dooley should be fired on the spot if he takes Joe's advice and starts playing for 2012. Any coach who sells his seniors and juniors out to achieve a future goal has no business coaching, period. The coach has an obligation to give the team a chance to win every game now, not in the theoretical future. If he feels Bray gives him the same chance to win, then sure, the future may be the deciding factor. Otherwise, all the juniors and seniors should just quit today.
By the way, Joe are you Bray's father? Just wondering since this is the umpteenth thread in which you have suggested he start.
 
#39
#39
Joe Vols said:
If they are, then IMO, the QB position is our biggest challenge to return to dominance.
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TN's dominance has always centered on solid defense.
We can try all the QBs listed on rivals and will continue to suffer blow outs, until we get serious about building some defense. IMO
 
#40
#40
TNBV said:
Dooley should be fired on the spot if he takes Joe's advice and starts playing for 2012. Any coach who sells his seniors and juniors out to achieve a future goal has no business coaching, period. The coach has an obligation to give the team a chance to win every game now, not in the theoretical future. If he feels Bray gives him the same chance to win, then sure, the future may be the deciding factor. Otherwise, all the juniors and seniors should just quit today.
By the way, Joe are you Bray's father? Just wondering since this is the umpteenth thread in which you have suggested he start.
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Repsectfully, I never said Bray should start. Play more if he can handle it, yes. Others on this thread have sggested it, but not me. I am saying I understand the coach's decision to play him more. We are playing poorly at other positions, but to try and say QB isn't one of them is stretching it. If Simms was lighting up the field like Poole is this discussion wouldn't be taking place. Point is he's not, so it is.

He's starting because our best tooled QB doesn't have game experience. Sometimes a coach has to do what's best for the team and the program. If Dooley should be fired for doing what he thinks is best and will get this program turned around, then he will have to answer for that with the product he fields in 2012, not 2010.
 
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#41
#41
calban said:
TN's dominance has always centered on solid defense.
We can try all the QBs listed on rivals and will continue to suffer blow outs, until we get serious about building some defense. IMO
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True. But the QB handles the ball on almost every offensive play with a few exceptions. If we are ineffective at QB we will be ineffective on offense. I think some of the reasons we haven't won more SECC or NC's since 2000 has been ineffective QB play. I realize this is not a tangible fact, but it is my opinion. We have had solid D, great running backs, gifted recievers, and average QB play. Not bad, just average. We need a QB who can step up and take over a game and win it for us when all else is equal and the game is on the line. IMO that's that's been the difference.
 
#42
#42
Joe Vols said:
True. But the QB handles the ball on almost every offensive play with a few exceptions. If we are ineffective at QB we will be ineffective on offense. I think some of the reasons we haven't won more SECC or NC's since 2000 has been ineffective QB play. I realize this is not a tangible fact, but it is my opinion. We have had solid D, great running backs, gifted recievers, and average QB play. Not bad, just average. We need a QB who can step up and take over a game and win it for us when all else is equal and the game is on the line. IMO that's that's been the difference.
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I agree with you.
Unfortunately, I don't see the mental toughness in Bray to be that kind of QB that can take over a game in the SEC.
It was there from the start in Clausen and Ainge.
The kid's got skill, but he's shown nothing on the field in game situation so far, when it counts.
 
#44
#44
calban said:
I agree with you.
Unfortunately, I don't see the mental toughness in Bray to be that kind of QB that can take over a game in the SEC.
It was there from the start in Clausen and Ainge.
The kid's got skill, but he's shown nothing on the field in game situation so far, when it counts.
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I agree with that assessment. Let's hope he shows us more this weekend. I think that's what this coaching staff is trying to find out by giving him some limited playing time. They're hoping his play will improve enough to give them definitive reasons to play him more. I do want to say that I think UT should play the best QB, and right now I don't think Bray or Simms has played well enough to keep the other one on the bench. IMO
 
#45
#45
GAVol said:
We have. And despite the revisionist history, Tee Martin drove me nuts at times.
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Amen to this.

...and I hate to repost this from several months ago, but...

Top 4 seasons, yardage-wise:

name YR ATT COMP TD PCT TOTAL
P Manning, Sr 97 477 287 36 60.2 3819
Eric Ainge, Sr 07 519 325 31 62.6 3533
P Manning, Jr 96 380 243 20 63.9 3287
Eric Ainge 06 348 233 19 67.0 2989

Ainge was third in career yardage and tds despite a season under Randy Sanders; and imagine that senior season if Meacham had stayed.
 
#46
#46
utvolpj said:
I think we have had a couple QB's since Peyton/Tee that put together consistent drives
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Clausen is one. The first Clausen. Not the rest that came out of the wood work.

Ainge was kinda the second but also choked alot.

Not sure if I could say a couple as Casey is about it.
 
#47
#47
I thought ainge was a very good QB -- at least while Cutcliff was coaching him up. He had talent and he put up some really good numbers. Crompton got better last year, but I never thought very high of his ability. He was an average QB on a pretty decent team. I think there was more talent on the team than people give it credit for.

Like most schools, you usually have a down turn, but we have been without a good QB for awhile now. Ainge was the last one I felt good about.
 
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