UT will get to see a good example first hand in two weeks.......

#153
#153
MWAVolfan said:
People who say that coaches should be given more time and it takes years to rebuild etc.... in two weeks we are going to go to Ole Miss and probably get monkey stomped by the rebels. We will see first hand what program recovery SHOULD look like.


Here is the story of Ole Miss:

Last two years under Houston Nutt:
4-8 and 2-10. Tennessee has NEVER had records this bad, even under Dooley. I think we can all agree that Ole Miss was just as broken, if not more so, than UT when Nutt left than when Dooley left UT.

Hugh Freeze had exactly ONE year of head coaching experience prior to Ole Miss. I'd think that's pretty much the definition of a no-name coaching hire.

Here is what Hugh has done:

Year One: took a team that previously went 2-10 and went 7-6, a winning season with a bowl victory, 2012 recruiting class ranked 40th, 13th out of 14 teams in the SEC

Year Two: 8-5, a marked improvement, also with a bowl victory recruiting class ranked #7, 4th in the SEC

Year Three: 5-0 for the first time in multiple generations, ranked #3 in the nation, just beat Alabama, recruiting class ranked #19, 10th out of 14 in the SEC

This was all accomplished while playing in the same division as Alabama, Auburn, LSU, and TA&M and other than last year, the recruiting classes have not been stellar at all. Since 2009, Tennessee has had a higher ranked recruiting class in all but one year. So Ole miss plays in a harder division and with less talent than Tennessee.

I am NOT saying that Butch Jones and his staff have to be fired now. What I am saying is that good coaches do not take years to turn around a program. Especially one with the history of UT. and they especially win the football games that they are supposed to win and then win games that they are not supposed to win. Nick Saban didnt take that long to turn around Bama and Urban Meyer didnt take that long to turn around Florida. Also, on a much different scale, Franklin took Vanderbilt to places it had never been, even though that's not saying much.
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Wrong, Saban lost to Louisiana Monroe his first or second year. Also Butch was hired 3 weeks before signing day, all he had was scraps to go after and still manage a descent signing class. This class was his true class and I have yet to see the offensive that he runs. I agree the loses this year seem to sting more and more but I believe in the legacies that signed with UT. Butch will get us there and I believe that
 
#154
#154
MWAVolfan said:
People who say that coaches should be given more time and it takes years to rebuild etc.... in two weeks we are going to go to Ole Miss and probably get monkey stomped by the rebels. We will see first hand what program recovery SHOULD look like.


Here is the story of Ole Miss:

Last two years under Houston Nutt:
4-8 and 2-10. Tennessee has NEVER had records this bad, even under Dooley. I think we can all agree that Ole Miss was just as broken, if not more so, than UT when Nutt left than when Dooley left UT.

Hugh Freeze had exactly ONE year of head coaching experience prior to Ole Miss. I'd think that's pretty much the definition of a no-name coaching hire.

Here is what Hugh has done:

Year One: took a team that previously went 2-10 and went 7-6, a winning season with a bowl victory, 2012 recruiting class ranked 40th, 13th out of 14 teams in the SEC

Year Two: 8-5, a marked improvement, also with a bowl victory recruiting class ranked #7, 4th in the SEC

Year Three: 5-0 for the first time in multiple generations, ranked #3 in the nation, just beat Alabama, recruiting class ranked #19, 10th out of 14 in the SEC

This was all accomplished while playing in the same division as Alabama, Auburn, LSU, and TA&M and other than last year, the recruiting classes have not been stellar at all. Since 2009, Tennessee has had a higher ranked recruiting class in all but one year. So Ole miss plays in a harder division and with less talent than Tennessee.

I am NOT saying that Butch Jones and his staff have to be fired now. What I am saying is that good coaches do not take years to turn around a program. Especially one with the history of UT. and they especially win the football games that they are supposed to win and then win games that they are not supposed to win. Nick Saban didnt take that long to turn around Bama and Urban Meyer didnt take that long to turn around Florida. Also, on a much different scale, Franklin took Vanderbilt to places it had never been, even though that's not saying much.
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So, by your own examples, if we go 7-5 and win an easy bowl game this year. Then Butch is outpacing Freeze since we have a much harder schedule in Butches second year than Freeze did in his. Plus I would say 6-6 would be as good or better as what freeze did in his second year since the schedule is so much harder. So who says we won't go 7-5? We don't know yet.... Last week after GA we all thought 6-6 or 7-5 was much more likely after how we played. Then one game later we look worse. The fact is one game doesn't change everything. We will know soon... I don't know why this is so hard for some to understand. Don't panic after one game right after being excited the week before.
 
#156
#156
BeattieFeathers said:
If Dooley recruited so good, why are we playing two true freshmen on the oline. Why did we start a walk on at lt in the opener? Why are we down two full classes for o linemen? Dem facts are stubborn things!
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Ask your coach why none of his 2013 OL recruits are playing, let alone starting. Or why his prize 2014 JUCO recruit isn't olauih, let alone starting.
 
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#157
#157
Chilmonty said:
Year One: took a team that previously went 2-10 and went 7-6, a winning season with a bowl victory, 2012 recruiting class ranked 40th, 13th out of 14 teams in the SEC

Year Two: 8-5, a marked improvement, also with a bowl victory recruiting class ranked #7, 4th in the SEC

Year Three: 5-0 for the first time in multiple generations, ranked #3 in the nation, just beat Alabama, recruiting class ranked #19, 10th out of 14 in the SEC



1. So Freeze gets 3 years and Butch gets 1.5??

2. Kiffins one class is generally reguarded as one of worst ever, did Miss have that??

3. And that was sandwiched in between Fulmers average class and DD's very average to below average classes!

4. And Oh Yeah, was Hugh Freeze their 4th coach and staff in five years???

Yeah a real apples to apples comparison Jackass!!! :banghead2:



,
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Just to clarify, we had 4 coaches in 6 yrs not 5. And Ole Miss had 3 in a 6 yr period, probably not a major difference.
 
#158
#158
vols1389 said:
Two years ago LSU and Alabama were the only good teams in the west, so saying it was a tougher division then isn't really true. So now Hugh Freeze has 3 of his recruiting classes there and Butch Jones really only has one. So maybe you shouldn't be so quick as to call this a crappy rebuilding project after a season and a half?

I don't know how many people realize this, but we are bringing in another top-10, maybe top-5 recruiting class AND returning 18 of 22 starters. Isn't anyone else excited by this?
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2 yrs ago was aTm's coming out party (their 1st year) so may want to reconsider that. The west had 3 teams with 10+ wins that season.
 
#160
#160
I want someone who is claiming the cupboard was more full for Freeze compared to Butch to actually go do the research and tell us how many guys from Nutt's classes started/contributed or were even still on the roster in Freeze's first 2 yrs. I have no idea and am not doing the leg work. The class rankings, which aren't the end all be all of talent estimation, have been "proven" to be in UT's favor.

We all know the history of attrition under Dooley and that a 1/3 of the players in those classes didn't finish their careers at UT, but so many are throwing out the OM situation and claiming it was better without providing substantive evidence to make their case. Claiming something is so without supporting it is what one might call an opinion.

It's amazing so many aren't willing to give Freeze credit for player development and coaching strategy. If the players were already there and talented then why didn't they perform under Nutt? That would suggest that Freeze is a quality coach capable of maximizing his talent pool.
 
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#161
#161
rockytop114 said:
Your not counting attrition and busts .. for example out of the classes Butch has signed about all have been solid that in its self is major improvement compared to Fulmer s last couple classes and kiffen s only class like 4 players panned out. This goes back to my previous post Houston Nutt was great at evaluating Tallent that helped freeze and he is good also .. butch is good also but he had a bigger hole .. you can't deny the progress Butch is making his job is just tougher and will take a extra year
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Are busts not a product of poor development, which is a product of poor coaching? If Freeze inherited talent but those players sucked under Nutt weren't they busts? If they performed adequately under Freeze are they no longer busts but instead now developed?

If a player sucked under Dooley and Butch, they're just considered busts and coaching had nothing to do with it?

Players can't be busts on our roster and beyond the help of two coaching staffs yet be talented the whole time but poorly developed by one staff in Ole Miss's situation. It appears that very few attribute coaching/player development to a players performance except in the case of Dooley and it's all a lack of development.
 
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#162
#162
BeattieFeathers said:
Why are we starting 5 true freshmen on offense, sir? Answer the question. If our recruiting better than ole miss's while Dooley was here, where and who are those Dooley recruits? Ole miss continues to play several players recruited by Nutt.....even though he left the year before Dooley. Who will butch play next year that was a Dooley player?
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Croom, Josh Smith, Crowder, Marcus Jackson, Maggit, McNeil, Pig, O'Brien, Randolph all Dooley recruits who play significant roles now and next year to name a few. Surely you're not this clueless.
 
#163
#163
VFLinbama said:
Wrong, Saban lost to Louisiana Monroe his first or second year. Also Butch was hired 3 weeks before signing day, all he had was scraps to go after and still manage a descent signing class. This class was his true class and I have yet to see the offensive that he runs. I agree the loses this year seem to sting more and more but I believe in the legacies that signed with UT. Butch will get us there and I believe that
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No he wasn't. He was hired 2 months before NSD. Good gosh, the lack of knowledge coming from posters yet said so succinctly as fact is pitiful.
 
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#164
#164
bowlinggreenvol said:
I want someone who is claiming the cupboard was more full for Freeze compared to Butch to actually go do the research and tell us how many guys from Nutt's classes started/contributed or were even still on the roster in Freeze's first 2 yrs. I have no idea and am not doing the leg work. The class rankings, which aren't the end all be all of talent estimation, have been "proven" to be in UT's favor.

We all know the history of attrition under Dooley and that a 1/3 of the players in those classes didn't finish their careers at UT, but so many are throwing out the OM situation and claiming it was better without providing substantive evidence to make their case. Claiming something is so without supporting it is what one might call an opinion.

It's amazing so many aren't willing to give Freeze credit for player development and coaching strategy. If the players were already there and talented then why didn't they perform under Nutt? That would suggest that Freeze is a quality coach capable of maximizing his talent pool.
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I think Freeze is a good coach....just don't buy in that he is any better than Jones and a quick look at schedules and wins doesn't support what some are throwing out.

2012 - 3 SEC Wins; AU, Ark and MSU (both AU and Ark were severely down that year)

2013 - 3 SEC Wins; Vandy, Ark and LSU (Vandy was early and close, Ark still down)

He's done 1 better in SEC play than Jones in his first year and this year still needs to play out to make a valid comparison.
 
#167
#167
You have to win winnable games, no matter what your weaknesses. We haven't been able to do that. Now we are looking up at mississippi schools. Good gawd.
 
#169
#169
Hal Jordan said:
Interesting to read this thread as an Ole Miss fan. I don't know enough about the Tennessee football program to compare, but I do know that if the situation in Knoxville was worse than what Nutt left, it was very, very, very bad. Ole Miss went 4-8 in 2010, lost to a 1-AA team, was murdered by Dooley's Vols in Knoxville, and lost a home game to Vandy when it was interim coached by the turkey insemination guy. That team would have been 2-10 if not for Jeremiah Masoli falling into Nutt's lap. The 2011 team did go 2-10 and was drubbed at home by La. Tech.

Nutt completely quit recruiting in September of 2011 and Freeze's first cobbled-together class was ranked in the 80s. If the 2011 team had played in a bowl game (ha!) it would have been hard to field a team because so many players would have been academically ineligible. Now, there are only three players who are significant contributors that were Nutt recruits.

I will say that building an OL is the hardest and most time consuming unit to build on the field, and it is consequently the weak spot on the current Ole Miss team.

Edit: someone made a good point about Freeze being fortunate to have an available JUCO QB in Bo Wallace who had 3 to play 3. Obviously, that is the most important position. But again, Nutt left complete dregs at that position and Freeze had to get somebody in that year or it would have been disastrous. And Wallace is from TN and I assume would have gone to UT if offered.
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This needs to be enshrined as a stickie, to enlighten all the worshippers that believe that CBJ was somehow uniquely handicapped by his predecessor.
 
#170
#170
I find it unbelievable that Butch would throw that interception at the end of the game!! What a jerk!!

And that pick in the end zone?!?! What was Butch thinking??

And how dare Butch give up 6 sacks. And fumble that ball on the 30 yard line?!?! What a moron!!!

And he was so stupid and deserves to be fired for scheduling top 5 non-conference opponents in back-to-back years when we are on the beginning stages of a rebuild.

And don't get me started on him not signing any OL in 2012. That is unforgivable.

How could he lose to a closely-matched team that had more athletic talent than us, and their strength doubled up and further exploited our weakness. How...could...he??!!!

He has had 1.5 years to rebuild us from the lowest point our program has ever been in in history. That is plenty of time!!!!

Butch Jones is a complete failure!!!!
 
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#174
#174
bowlinggreenvol said:
Croom, Josh Smith, Crowder, Marcus Jackson, Maggit, McNeil, Pig, O'Brien, Randolph all Dooley recruits who play significant roles now and next year to name a few. Surely you're not this clueless.
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Add to that that the 2013 recruits that Dooley's staff were recruiting LONG before Butch got in town. Guys like North were already being pulled to UT pre-Butch
 
#175
#175
volchemist11 said:
Looking at the 2012 Ole miss schedule they went 6-6 regular season with wins over Central Ark, UTEP, Tulane, Auburn (Lame duck Chizik year 0-8 in sec) Arkansas ( Bobby Petrino scandal) and beat Miss State their traditional rival. Won their bowl game against pitt to finish 7-6

2013 pretty similar story beat the cupcakes... Beat a terrible Texas team with Mack brown distraction. and Pulled off a game they weren't supposed to win over LSU... Beat Georgia tech in a bowl game....

Give us consistent qb play last year and we match the 2012 Ole Miss schedule and the Jury is still out on this years team.. Lets see what our final record is this year before we compare.
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its amazing to read all the exscuses to why Tennessee is struggling and why other teams are not
 
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