UT will get to see a good example first hand in two weeks.......

[BigOrangeTrain]

So when looking up the worst college football hires, does one find Nutt on the list? Nope.

When Freeze took over, did he have to play the most difficult schedule in school history and the toughest schedule in the past 20 years? Nope.

 

[rockytop114]

Nobody said Butch Jones only gets 1.5 years.

But our program isnt where Ole Miss was at the same point. And it wont be when Jones gets to year 3.


Also, as stated before UT HAD BETTER CLASSES THAN OLE MISS! How many times do I have to say it.

Your not counting attrition and busts .. for example out of the classes Butch has signed about all have been solid that in its self is major improvement compared to Fulmer s last couple classes and kiffen s only class like 4 players panned out. This goes back to my previous post Houston Nutt was great at evaluating Tallent that helped freeze and he is good also .. butch is good also but he had a bigger hole .. you can't deny the progress Butch is making his job is just tougher and will take a extra year

 

[tennesseeduke]

People who say that coaches should be given more time and it takes years to rebuild etc.... in two weeks we are going to go to Ole Miss and probably get monkey stomped by the rebels. We will see first hand what program recovery SHOULD look like.


Here is the story of Ole Miss:

Last two years under Houston Nutt:
4-8 and 2-10. Tennessee has NEVER had records this bad, even under Dooley. I think we can all agree that Ole Miss was just as broken, if not more so, than UT when Nutt left than when Dooley left UT.

Hugh Freeze had exactly ONE year of head coaching experience prior to Ole Miss. I'd think that's pretty much the definition of a no-name coaching hire.

Here is what Hugh has done:

Year One: took a team that previously went 2-10 and went 7-6, a winning season with a bowl victory, 2012 recruiting class ranked 40th, 13th out of 14 teams in the SEC

Year Two: 8-5, a marked improvement, also with a bowl victory recruiting class ranked #7, 4th in the SEC

Year Three: 5-0 for the first time in multiple generations, ranked #3 in the nation, just beat Alabama, recruiting class ranked #19, 10th out of 14 in the SEC

This was all accomplished while playing in the same division as Alabama, Auburn, LSU, and TA&M and other than last year, the recruiting classes have not been stellar at all. Since 2009, Tennessee has had a higher ranked recruiting class in all but one year. So Ole miss plays in a harder division and with less talent than Tennessee.

I am NOT saying that Butch Jones and his staff have to be fired now. What I am saying is that good coaches do not take years to turn around a program. Especially one with the history of UT. and they especially win the football games that they are supposed to win and then win games that they are not supposed to win. Nick Saban didnt take that long to turn around Bama and Urban Meyer didnt take that long to turn around Florida. Also, on a much different scale, Franklin took Vanderbilt to places it had never been, even though that's not saying much.

They do take a few years if the players you inherit are crappy and there is no juniors or seniors on the team. Freeze has a veteran club and a serviceable QB. Ole Miss had one 5* recruit in it's history. He got 4 his first full class. They are now being investigated. We don't have that issue and CBJ is building this from the ground up for sustainability! I know it's frustrating but no one on Volnation predicted more than 7 wins before the season. We beat the crap out of Utah St. which just destroyed a very good BYU team. We played at OU and really played well for a young team on the 1st road game. Then GA game a fumble cost us that game and Worley missing the 3rd quarter. UF we were expecting victory and somehow played our worst game of the season and still almost won. All with the youngest team, and only team that replaced every offensive and defensive lineman in the country! Good grief people, please wake up and get back on board. This team will rebound and accomplish the task for 2014 which is getting to a bowl game! In 2015 when Dobbs comes off redshirt, and 3 yrs in the system the Vols will compete for the SEC east title! The Defense is playing out of it's mind and we have 2 of the top D tackles coming in the spring. In 2016 when all these young guys and 4 stellar recruiting classes in rear, the team will be stocked with talent/depth and ready to compete for championships again!

I cannot wait because it will be then that all will be right again on the HILL and CBJ will be very proud of his work of restoring order in the SEC. This is when we will have beaten the likes of Bama, GA, Fl, etc...and then we will slip up somewhere lose one and then everyone will be saying, "I'm not sure if CBJ and staff can go 13-0 every year" I mean 12-1 is just not going to be good enough to please a lot of you still.

I hope this makes sense. I'm as frustrated as everyone but we cannot keep switching coaches and *****ing every day when something doesn't go our way. We are just not in that position again yet. The recruiting that is happening hasn't been done since the middle and late 90's. This is where we will rise back up by that hard work and it transitioning to the field. You can already see the signs! Hurd, TKjr., Malone, Weathard, Sutton, Robertson, North, etc....Look how in just a few short months these guys are doing against top notch competition on stages they have never been on before.

The future is extremely bright and everyone should see it. It sux we lost that game Saturday but that will change. 7 wins is my hope this year and we have a good shot to get there. 9-10 wins next year then 12-13 or more in 2016 will be the task.

JMO and thought I would let you in on it.

:loco:

Tennesseeduke

 

[BornAndRaisedVOL!]

Wow. What a difference a missed fg would have made? It actually should have been backed up 5 for delay of game, which I doubt he makes the 54 yarder rekick for fla. The same people that are crying that the sky is falling at ut would be praising jones right now.
The comparison of our team and ole miss at this stage is so unfair. They just had a pretty good season last year with 6 returners on offense and 10 on defense for this year. We replaced everyone on our oline. Ole miss had all conference Ot, and te returning along with a og. We had to replace our ol with two freshman, and a freshman TE. The depth was so bare we had to replace one ol with a converted dt and he was considered the best ol we had, which he promptly got hurt. I think you should wait to compare the rebuilding we are doing two years from now or at least next year to measure the success or failure. Sec games are won in the trenches and our trenches are more bare than anyone in the country, not just in sec. We are 2-3 which is what most reasonable people predicted at this time. I still think we make a bowl game and think we will be in every game including the so called power houses on our schedule that are left. Maybe the breaks will bounce our way. I think Worley had a bad game., really his first one of the young season. We have only had one game where we had all our wr weapons on offense which was really our only source of strength on offense. i wonder if Bo Wallace had two of the top wrs on his team injured, TE just coming back off injury, throw in most of the rbs banged up for the game on Saturday, do you really think ole miss wins vs Bama. I highly doubt it.

It doesn't matter what you say to these fans. We're all pissed about losing, but some people just want to be miserable fu#%s about it and stir the pot with all their "look at Hugh Freeze" and "Dooley > Jones" garbage. Whatever. Taking no OL in 2012 was CATASTROPHIC. Butch, along with every other school that matters, went after D. Blair to fill the void. Blair is a bust so far. It happens. It's not like we have two 5* true freshmen holding down the right side of the line.

 

[jlindsa4]

People who say that coaches should be given more time and it takes years to rebuild etc.... in two weeks we are going to go to Ole Miss and probably get monkey stomped by the rebels. We will see first hand what program recovery SHOULD look like.


Here is the story of Ole Miss:

Last two years under Houston Nutt:
4-8 and 2-10. Tennessee has NEVER had records this bad, even under Dooley. I think we can all agree that Ole Miss was just as broken, if not more so, than UT when Nutt left than when Dooley left UT.

Hugh Freeze had exactly ONE year of head coaching experience prior to Ole Miss. I'd think that's pretty much the definition of a no-name coaching hire.

Here is what Hugh has done:

Year One: took a team that previously went 2-10 and went 7-6, a winning season with a bowl victory, 2012 recruiting class ranked 40th, 13th out of 14 teams in the SEC

Year Two: 8-5, a marked improvement, also with a bowl victory recruiting class ranked #7, 4th in the SEC

Year Three: 5-0 for the first time in multiple generations, ranked #3 in the nation, just beat Alabama, recruiting class ranked #19, 10th out of 14 in the SEC

This was all accomplished while playing in the same division as Alabama, Auburn, LSU, and TA&M and other than last year, the recruiting classes have not been stellar at all. Since 2009, Tennessee has had a higher ranked recruiting class in all but one year. So Ole miss plays in a harder division and with less talent than Tennessee.

I am NOT saying that Butch Jones and his staff have to be fired now. What I am saying is that good coaches do not take years to turn around a program. Especially one with the history of UT. and they especially win the football games that they are supposed to win and then win games that they are not supposed to win. Nick Saban didnt take that long to turn around Bama and Urban Meyer didnt take that long to turn around Florida. Also, on a much different scale, Franklin took Vanderbilt to places it had never been, even though that's not saying much.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but I counter your statement about good coaches turn programs around in a year or two with this statement. It took 4 years for Nick Saban to get a record better than 7-5 at michigan state. The other three years were 6-6, 6-6, and 6-5. There are special occasions where coaches do have a great first few years then do nothing. Gene Chizik is a prime example. There are some, but not many like Gus Malzahn and Hugh Freeze that have great first years and continue to be good coaches (though those two coaches are only in their second and third year so that is a bit premature).

 

[livefaith]

People who say that coaches should be given more time and it takes years to rebuild etc.... in two weeks we are going to go to Ole Miss and probably get monkey stomped by the rebels. We will see first hand what program recovery SHOULD look like.


Here is the story of Ole Miss:

Last two years under Houston Nutt:
4-8 and 2-10. Tennessee has NEVER had records this bad, even under Dooley. I think we can all agree that Ole Miss was just as broken, if not more so, than UT when Nutt left than when Dooley left UT.

Hugh Freeze had exactly ONE year of head coaching experience prior to Ole Miss. I'd think that's pretty much the definition of a no-name coaching hire.

Here is what Hugh has done:

Year One: took a team that previously went 2-10 and went 7-6, a winning season with a bowl victory, 2012 recruiting class ranked 40th, 13th out of 14 teams in the SEC

Year Two: 8-5, a marked improvement, also with a bowl victory recruiting class ranked #7, 4th in the SEC

Year Three: 5-0 for the first time in multiple generations, ranked #3 in the nation, just beat Alabama, recruiting class ranked #19, 10th out of 14 in the SEC

This was all accomplished while playing in the same division as Alabama, Auburn, LSU, and TA&M and other than last year, the recruiting classes have not been stellar at all. Since 2009, Tennessee has had a higher ranked recruiting class in all but one year. So Ole miss plays in a harder division and with less talent than Tennessee.

I am NOT saying that Butch Jones and his staff have to be fired now. What I am saying is that good coaches do not take years to turn around a program. Especially one with the history of UT. and they especially win the football games that they are supposed to win and then win games that they are not supposed to win. Nick Saban didnt take that long to turn around Bama and Urban Meyer didnt take that long to turn around Florida. Also, on a much different scale, Franklin took Vanderbilt to places it had never been, even though that's not saying much.

Great story OP. Now, can you point us to where you were begging Hart to hire Hugh Freeze when we were in a coaching search?

If not, could you at least explain your response on VN if CHF had been Hart's choice for UT?

Hindsight is 20:20 and as easy as falling down. I'm just hoping you're not feeling clever here.

 

[coachwgh]

I typed 3 paragraphs and deleted all...it wouldn't have done any good...stop comparing, it's not fair to anyone...Go Vols!

 

[tennesseeduke]

I agree with a lot of what you said, but I counter your statement about good coaches turn programs around in a year or two with this statement. It took 4 years for Nick Saban to get a record better than 7-5 at michigan state. The other three years were 6-6, 6-6, and 6-5. There are special occasions where coaches do have a great first few years then do nothing. Gene Chizik is a prime example. There are some, but not many like Gus Malzahn and Hugh Freeze that have great first years and continue to be good coaches (though those two coaches are only in their second and third year so that is a bit premature).

Larry Coker took over Butch Davis at Miami, goes undefeated wins a 2002 national championship and the team is crap ever since.

:hi:

Tennesseeduke

 

[Wood Man]

Dan Mullen will go to Florida.

Hadn't thought of that. Very good point.

 

[Dudley Smith]

Nobody said Butch Jones only gets 1.5 years.

But our program isnt where Ole Miss was at the same point. And it wont be when Jones gets to year 3.


Also, as stated before UT HAD BETTER CLASSES THAN OLE MISS! How many times do I have to say it.

But Ole Miss had better classes, they signed offensive linemen and UT didn't.

 

[volpreacher]

Call me crazy guys, it's happened before, but we will beat either Ole Miss or Alabama and maybe both. I think a little of what happened Saturday is our young guys believed the press clippings. We were actually favored to beat the Gators because they had improved. No one gave them a chance against Oklahoma or Georgia and they bowed their backs determined to prove the "experts" wrong. Let's let the season play out, we will go bowling. I still say 8 wins.

 

[87Vol]

People who say that coaches should be given more time and it takes years to rebuild etc.... in two weeks we are going to go to Ole Miss and probably get monkey stomped by the rebels. We will see first hand what program recovery SHOULD look like.


Here is the story of Ole Miss:

Last two years under Houston Nutt:
4-8 and 2-10. Tennessee has NEVER had records this bad, even under Dooley. I think we can all agree that Ole Miss was just as broken, if not more so, than UT when Nutt left than when Dooley left UT.

Hugh Freeze had exactly ONE year of head coaching experience prior to Ole Miss. I'd think that's pretty much the definition of a no-name coaching hire.

Here is what Hugh has done:

Year One: took a team that previously went 2-10 and went 7-6, a winning season with a bowl victory, 2012 recruiting class ranked 40th, 13th out of 14 teams in the SEC

Year Two: 8-5, a marked improvement, also with a bowl victory recruiting class ranked #7, 4th in the SEC

Year Three: 5-0 for the first time in multiple generations, ranked #3 in the nation, just beat Alabama, recruiting class ranked #19, 10th out of 14 in the SEC

This was all accomplished while playing in the same division as Alabama, Auburn, LSU, and TA&M and other than last year, the recruiting classes have not been stellar at all. Since 2009, Tennessee has had a higher ranked recruiting class in all but one year. So Ole miss plays in a harder division and with less talent than Tennessee.

I am NOT saying that Butch Jones and his staff have to be fired now. What I am saying is that good coaches do not take years to turn around a program. Especially one with the history of UT. and they especially win the football games that they are supposed to win and then win games that they are not supposed to win. Nick Saban didnt take that long to turn around Bama and Urban Meyer didnt take that long to turn around Florida. Also, on a much different scale, Franklin took Vanderbilt to places it had never been, even though that's not saying much.

THIS !!!

Although Butch is recruiting like gangbusters, he should be getting a little better results on the field. It's very worrisome that he is not, because of all the excellent examples stated above.

 

[omghulkhands]

Call me crazy guys, it's happened before, but we will beat either Ole Miss or Alabama and maybe both. I think a little of what happened Saturday is our young guys believed the press clippings. We were actually favored to beat the Gators because they had improved. No one gave them a chance against Oklahoma or Georgia and they bowed their backs determined to prove the "experts" wrong. Let's let the season play out, we will go bowling. I still say 8 wins.

Ok. You're crazy. If you say 8 wins, I take the under and will put $100 on it. Deal?

 

[vols1389]

Tennessee is a very good football team. We have a mediocre o line and not a lot of depth and we are a very good football team who should be 4-1 and possibly 5-0. Our defense is a top 10 defense. With all of that said this one reAlly hurts bad. The atmosphere at the game, I will never forget.

I know, I think we still got a shot to pull some upsets this year. Just poking some fun at Tiny guaranteeing a win vs Mizzou last year

 

[vols1389]

THIS !!!

Although Butch is recruiting like gangbusters, he should be getting a little better results on the field. It's very worrisome that he is not, because of all the excellent examples stated above.

Bro, all his recruits are freshman. Freeze barely made a bowl with his great recruiting class. You acting like this season is gone and dead. Even if it doesn't happen this year this still isn't a fair comparison.

 

[CJBlaze]

Call me crazy guys, it's happened before, but we will beat either Ole Miss or Alabama and maybe both. I think a little of what happened Saturday is our young guys believed the press clippings. We were actually favored to beat the Gators because they had improved. No one gave them a chance against Oklahoma or Georgia and they bowed their backs determined to prove the "experts" wrong. Let's let the season play out, we will go bowling. I still say 8 wins.

Craziest post I've ever read! We're going 5-7 again. Possibly 4-8.Worst OL I've ever seen in 30 years of watching Tennessee football.

 

[BenGrimm]

I'm a little late to this party but I bet Ole Miss lays an egg this week vs TAM.

Credit due for beating Bama but Wallace played his best game of the season last Sat. Before that he was throwing 3 picks a game and they were having trouble pulling away from Memphis.

I know losing to FL stings but every team is a little different week to week. Just look at SCAR. They went from getting blown out by TAM to beating UGA to scraping past Vandy to blowing a lead vs Mizzu and letting UK beat them.

We still have 7 games left and a few opportunities to upset somebody. Let's let it play out before we jump off the cliff.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

People who say that coaches should be given more time and it takes years to rebuild etc.... in two weeks we are going to go to Ole Miss and probably get monkey stomped by the rebels. We will see first hand what program recovery SHOULD look like.


Here is the story of Ole Miss:

Last two years under Houston Nutt:
4-8 and 2-10. Tennessee has NEVER had records this bad, even under Dooley. I think we can all agree that Ole Miss was just as broken, if not more so, than UT when Nutt left than when Dooley left UT.

Hugh Freeze had exactly ONE year of head coaching experience prior to Ole Miss. I'd think that's pretty much the definition of a no-name coaching hire.

Here is what Hugh has done:

Year One: took a team that previously went 2-10 and went 7-6, a winning season with a bowl victory, 2012 recruiting class ranked 40th, 13th out of 14 teams in the SEC

Year Two: 8-5, a marked improvement, also with a bowl victory recruiting class ranked #7, 4th in the SEC

Year Three: 5-0 for the first time in multiple generations, ranked #3 in the nation, just beat Alabama, recruiting class ranked #19, 10th out of 14 in the SEC

This was all accomplished while playing in the same division as Alabama, Auburn, LSU, and TA&M and other than last year, the recruiting classes have not been stellar at all. Since 2009, Tennessee has had a higher ranked recruiting class in all but one year. So Ole miss plays in a harder division and with less talent than Tennessee.

I am NOT saying that Butch Jones and his staff have to be fired now. What I am saying is that good coaches do not take years to turn around a program. Especially one with the history of UT. and they especially win the football games that they are supposed to win and then win games that they are not supposed to win. Nick Saban didnt take that long to turn around Bama and Urban Meyer didnt take that long to turn around Florida. Also, on a much different scale, Franklin took Vanderbilt to places it had never been, even though that's not saying much.

Just because our story isn't the same as others, doesn't mean it's the wrong or misguided one. This is also the first week in October.

 

[JC61]

Man....for sanity sake....how bout an objective look at your comparisons.

Mullen and Freeze are decent coaches and winning is winning. I do believe you make your own breaks and have to take them but all these comparisons of the Miss teams are off the mark IMO.

as for the last 2 year "significant" turn around's...

Ole Miss = 2012 OCC schedule was poor except Texas which curb stomped them...caught Auburn on its down year and Ark was trash....beat Miss State for its .500 season; 2013 same poor cupcake schedule, Ark still down, got Texas on a down year, beat Vandy first game....don't think thatda happened later in the year and caught LSU with its pants down for a 7 win season.

MSU - OOC not impressive; 2012 Ark is trash and Auburn's dismal year and beat us and UK....got throttled by remaining west; 2013 beat UK, Ark and Ole Miss

 

[BeattieFeathers]

The facts are that Tennessee's recruiting was and has been consistently better than Ole Miss. those are facts.

The difference is in who UT has/had as a coach and who Ole Miss has as a coach.

Freeze had to rebuild a team that was worse than UT (2-10 versus 5-7).

I have facts too.

Why are we starting 5 true freshmen on offense, sir? Answer the question. If our recruiting better than ole miss's while Dooley was here, where and who are those Dooley recruits? Ole miss continues to play several players recruited by Nutt.....even though he left the year before Dooley. Who will butch play next year that was a Dooley player?

 

[BoColoco]

I understand your point, OP, but I think there are too many variables over the course of a season for a broad comparison to be valid - schedule, players or lack thereof at specific positions, individual plays that could have gone either way, etc. The reality is, a couple of plays last year go our way and we're a bowl team. This year, we're three or four plays from being 4-1. The question is when will we start making those plays that make a difference, and I think that's more a question for the players than the coaches.

 

[branchvol]

Ole Miss would beat the Hell out of Oklahoma.

Please pass the bong next time uve smoked enough already!!!

 

[D-rock]

Lost me at ONE year of head coaching experience.

 

[sechamp2012]

The OP comes off as a sycophant for Hugh Freeze. He is a good coach and has recruited more 5 star players since he's been there than Ole miss had recruited in it's 120 year history we get it. Butch will be here 2 years as of December the 7th 2014 (2 months from today). The variables and all are just so numerous in comparing it's frustrating and comes off as a hater.

 

[Hal Jordan]

Interesting to read this thread as an Ole Miss fan. I don't know enough about the Tennessee football program to compare, but I do know that if the situation in Knoxville was worse than what Nutt left, it was very, very, very bad. Ole Miss went 4-8 in 2010, lost to a 1-AA team, was murdered by Dooley's Vols in Knoxville, and lost a home game to Vandy when it was interim coached by the turkey insemination guy. That team would have been 2-10 if not for Jeremiah Masoli falling into Nutt's lap. The 2011 team did go 2-10 and was drubbed at home by La. Tech.

Nutt completely quit recruiting in September of 2011 and Freeze's first cobbled-together class was ranked in the 80s. If the 2011 team had played in a bowl game (ha!) it would have been hard to field a team because so many players would have been academically ineligible. Now, there are only three players who are significant contributors that were Nutt recruits.

I will say that building an OL is the hardest and most time consuming unit to build on the field, and it is consequently the weak spot on the current Ole Miss team.

Edit: someone made a good point about Freeze being fortunate to have an available JUCO QB in Bo Wallace who had 3 to play 3. Obviously, that is the most important position. But again, Nutt left complete dregs at that position and Freeze had to get somebody in that year or it would have been disastrous. And Wallace is from TN and I assume would have gone to UT if offered.