UT will get to see a good example first hand in two weeks.......

#101
#101
vols1389 said:
Dooley did absolutely nothing to bring the talent these guys had in high school out of them, that's how. Nutt probably brought in an offensive lineman ever now and then also so there was a few replacements when they all left.
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Beating a dead horse I see. Sure, not signing an single offensive lineman is not a good move, but it's not like we still don't have people capable of getting the job done.

Yes, I know we're starting 2 freshman on the OL, but what happened to the Blair project? What happened to the other guys older than the freshman?

Imo, that part isn't on Butch, it's on Mahoney.
 
#103
#103
vols1389 said:
Do you give this the Tiny Richardson guarantee?
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Tennessee is a very good football team. We have a mediocre o line and not a lot of depth and we are a very good football team who should be 4-1 and possibly 5-0. Our defense is a top 10 defense. With all of that said this one reAlly hurts bad. The atmosphere at the game, I will never forget.
 
#104
#104
Recruiting rankings are all about the rankings of the recruits compared to their peers and how many stars they have. They have very little to do with filling the future needs of the specific team with whom they sign. Again, 5 star qb's have to have someone to block for them. So do five star running backs.

People sing the praises of the SEC and how tough it is. Why do people think freshman linemen can measure up? Why is it fairly common for linemen to go so high in the NFL draft? Going two years without signing linemen is going to hurt for a while. That's a fact.
 
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#105
#105
tm3 said:
Two Fr started on the O line last year for Ole Piss.

They only won 8 games.
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Oh don't quote the Butch Jones worshippers facts. They will always find another excuse, and then if they run out they'll just start saying "brick by brick" over and over again.
 
#107
#107
Hugh Freeze is an alien, and not the kind that sneaks across the border. He is MEN IN BLACK IV
 
#108
#108
#109
#109
vols1389 said:
This is such a terrible argument!!! Butch has already shown with a year and some of his recruits how good the defense is. Trying to say the defense wasn't "coached right" is extremely ignorant.
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It was a play on words to the post I was actually commenting on my man. It's why I put it in quotes.

Go back and scroll through the posts.

Defensively, this team is significantly improved.
 
#110
#110
Chilmonty said:
Year One: took a team that previously went 2-10 and went 7-6, a winning season with a bowl victory, 2012 recruiting class ranked 40th, 13th out of 14 teams in the SEC

Year Two: 8-5, a marked improvement, also with a bowl victory recruiting class ranked #7, 4th in the SEC

Year Three: 5-0 for the first time in multiple generations, ranked #3 in the nation, just beat Alabama, recruiting class ranked #19, 10th out of 14 in the SEC



1. So Freeze gets 3 years and Butch gets 1.5??

2. Kiffins one class is generally reguarded as one of worst ever, did Miss have that??

3. And that was sandwiched in between Fulmers average class and DD's very average to below average classes!

4. And Oh Yeah, was Hugh Freeze their 4th coach and staff in five years???

Yeah a real apples to apples comparison Jackass!!! :banghead2:



,
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Nobody said Butch Jones only gets 1.5 years.

But our program isnt where Ole Miss was at the same point. And it wont be when Jones gets to year 3.


Also, as stated before UT HAD BETTER CLASSES THAN OLE MISS! How many times do I have to say it.
 
#111
#111
MWAVolfan said:
People who say that coaches should be given more time and it takes years to rebuild etc.... in two weeks we are going to go to Ole Miss and probably get monkey stomped by the rebels. We will see first hand what program recovery SHOULD look like.


Here is the story of Ole Miss:

Last two years under Houston Nutt:
4-8 and 2-10. Tennessee has NEVER had records this bad, even under Dooley. I think we can all agree that Ole Miss was just as broken, if not more so, than UT when Nutt left than when Dooley left UT.

Hugh Freeze had exactly ONE year of head coaching experience prior to Ole Miss. I'd think that's pretty much the definition of a no-name coaching hire.

Here is what Hugh has done:

Year One: took a team that previously went 2-10 and went 7-6, a winning season with a bowl victory, 2012 recruiting class ranked 40th, 13th out of 14 teams in the SEC

Year Two: 8-5, a marked improvement, also with a bowl victory recruiting class ranked #7, 4th in the SEC

Year Three: 5-0 for the first time in multiple generations, ranked #3 in the nation, just beat Alabama, recruiting class ranked #19, 10th out of 14 in the SEC

This was all accomplished while playing in the same division as Alabama, Auburn, LSU, and TA&M and other than last year, the recruiting classes have not been stellar at all. Since 2009, Tennessee has had a higher ranked recruiting class in all but one year. So Ole miss plays in a harder division and with less talent than Tennessee.

I am NOT saying that Butch Jones and his staff have to be fired now. What I am saying is that good coaches do not take years to turn around a program. Especially one with the history of UT. and they especially win the football games that they are supposed to win and then win games that they are not supposed to win. Nick Saban didnt take that long to turn around Bama and Urban Meyer didnt take that long to turn around Florida. Also, on a much different scale, Franklin took Vanderbilt to places it had never been, even though that's not saying much.
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well said
 
#112
#112
MWAVolfan said:
Nobody said Butch Jones only gets 1.5 years.

But our program isnt where Ole Miss was at the same point. And it wont be when Jones gets to year 3.


Also, as stated before UT HAD BETTER CLASSES THAN OLE MISS! How many times do I have to say it.
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Here's a link to an Ole Miss forum since you appear to want to be an Ole Miss fan. RebelFaithful.com • Index page
 
#113
#113
Nationdom said:
Tennessee is a very good football team. We have a mediocre o line and not a lot of depth and we are a very good football team who should be 4-1 and possibly 5-0. Our defense is a top 10 defense. With all of that said this one reAlly hurts bad. The atmosphere at the game, I will never forget.
Click to expand...

Our defense is much better than last year. But we are not a top 10 defense. Not in any category are we that good.
 
#114
#114
UTFootballFan said:
Here's a link to an Ole Miss forum since you appear to want to be an Ole Miss fan. RebelFaithful.com • Index page
Click to expand...

I dont know what I've said that makes you think I want to root for Ole Miss. I simply pointed out to our most idiotic fans who are obviously so young that you think what is happening at UT is common place and that it normally takes half a decade to return a program to prominence by pointing out a very real and comparable example of a program that was trash, who hired the right coach, and they got better to the point that they are undefeated and #3 in the nation within 2.5 years.

Alabama and Florida also did this, and thats just in the SEC.

It can and should be done and it happens quite regularly. But people just keep parading out excuse after excuse as to why it will take longer instead of demanding that it must get better.
 
#115
#115
loggervol said:
I can go along with most of this but I believe most of the def. talent, especially the db's have been recruited over or can't get on the field. the ones that are playing that came in under doolfus are sharing time with true freshmen and very close to being backups. brian Randolph excluded.

I should have said lbs also. excluding aj and maggit.
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3 out of 4 DB's were Dooley recruits( McNeil, Coleman, Randolph). If they aren't any good then it begs the question of why Jones is starting them.

I don't disagree with the point they tried to recruit over them and are sharing time.

Sutton is easily the best player in the secondary if not the entire defense already. Kelly will surpass anything those three I mentioned earlier have done.

I just don't think the cupboard is bare argument holds water past the O line and attrition among receivers last year.

Jones had two months and a full recruiting cycle to upgrade the O line and the one instant impact guy he brought in can't make it off the bench apparently.

Don't take anything I said here as any kind of endorsement for Dooley. The guy sucked at every facet as a head coach.

He actually did leave some building blocks to work with though.

I just really don't like seeing similar records and some of the same ongoing attrition problems along with one side of the ball being terrible either( offense for Jones defense for Dooley).

If they don't put a team on the field that is hitting on all cylinders and playing extremely smart, they will never dig out of this hole.
 
#116
#116
There's a reason juco players are playing at juco schools. It takes some time to develop some recruiting credibility. I think it's obvious Jones is doing that.

Some ships don't turn on a dime regardless how impatient some are.
 
#117
#117
landscapingvol said:
A couple things you are not considering when comparing Mississippi to UT in terms of rebuilding. Most of you won't admit just how far UT had fallen in terms of talent, yes even below that of Mississippi. Hugh Freeze was replacing an absolute disaster of a head coach in Houston Nutt but he did leave talent behind unlike Derek Dooley who was a disaster as well but left zero talent and depth at key positions. Mississippi is not a pressure cooker like UT in terms of expectations and patience, and they have not been handicapped by massive debt, NCAA probation, or a negative perception by much of the nation outside the South.
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I disagree. Year after year after year UT recruited better talent. Only once did Ole Miss have a better recruiting class than UT for many many years in a row. All the difference came from the quality of the coaching.

I'll be the first to stand in line to berate Dooley for his ineptitude, but he was not as devoid of talent as a program like Ole Miss.

Also, the past 5 years have been extremely hard in the SEC west and comparable very easy in the SEC east. We should have won a few more games than we did, and we'll continue to lose them if the play calling and the general ferocity and ability to close out games doesnt change quickly. Sooner or later the excuses have to stop.

We still have a somewhat distant chance of going 7-5 this year, but it would have to be a miracle because our o-line is going to get worse and worse as the year goes on and they get more beaten down physically. We had golden chances to beat UGA and Florida. Its not going to get better. I mean we have a legitimate chance of losing to Kentucky. They have been playing very well.
 
#118
#118
So you are looking at how the recruiting classes filled the needs of the respective schools or are you just looking at the recruiting class rankings?
 
#119
#119
MWAVolfan said:
Nobody said Butch Jones only gets 1.5 years.

But our program isnt where Ole Miss was at the same point. And it wont be when Jones gets to year 3.


Also, as stated before UT HAD BETTER CLASSES THAN OLE MISS! How many times do I have to say it.
Click to expand...

I agree, but we are outgunned here, no one wants to see it for what it is...
 
#120
#120
UTFootballFan said:
So you are looking at how the recruiting classes filled the needs of the respective schools or are you just looking at the recruiting class rankings?
Click to expand...

Are you saying that Hugh Freeze didnt have to deal with deficiencies in different places on his team since he's been there? I'm sure he wishes he had more talent in different spots on the field and that would make his team better. But he coached around it and got his team to win. No matter what he got them to win. Thats the bottom line.

Believing you can win is one thing
Getting your players to believe they can win is another
Going out and showing the world you can win is different. It takes a different kind of coach.
 
#121
#121
MWAVolfan said:
People who say that coaches should be given more time and it takes years to rebuild etc.... in two weeks we are going to go to Ole Miss and probably get monkey stomped by the rebels. We will see first hand what program recovery SHOULD look like.
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Disagree. We seem to play to the ability of the other team. We stalled on offense against UGA...until Gurley started running around us in the 4th. I think for some reason, we like to play from behind. I say we make it a good game. I'd dare to say we keep it within 10. And, I think our defense CAN hang with Bo Wallace's crew.

I say we lose to Bama and Ole Miss by no more than a combined 20 points.
 
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#123
#123
LA Vol said:
Dan Mullen will go to Florida.
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This.

Its setting itself up perfectly for it.. Msu is finally winning the year uf will be looking for a coach and u know Mullen wants to get back to uf. The uf fans and boosters will be more for this hire than they would've previous years.
 
#125
#125
MWAVolfan said:
People who say that coaches should be given more time and it takes years to rebuild etc.... in two weeks we are going to go to Ole Miss and probably get monkey stomped by the rebels. We will see first hand what program recovery SHOULD look like.


Here is the story of Ole Miss:

Last two years under Houston Nutt:
4-8 and 2-10. Tennessee has NEVER had records this bad, even under Dooley. I think we can all agree that Ole Miss was just as broken, if not more so, than UT when Nutt left than when Dooley left UT.

Hugh Freeze had exactly ONE year of head coaching experience prior to Ole Miss. I'd think that's pretty much the definition of a no-name coaching hire.

Here is what Hugh has done:

Year One: took a team that previously went 2-10 and went 7-6, a winning season with a bowl victory, 2012 recruiting class ranked 40th, 13th out of 14 teams in the SEC

Year Two: 8-5, a marked improvement, also with a bowl victory recruiting class ranked #7, 4th in the SEC

Year Three: 5-0 for the first time in multiple generations, ranked #3 in the nation, just beat Alabama, recruiting class ranked #19, 10th out of 14 in the SEC

This was all accomplished while playing in the same division as Alabama, Auburn, LSU, and TA&M and other than last year, the recruiting classes have not been stellar at all. Since 2009, Tennessee has had a higher ranked recruiting class in all but one year. So Ole miss plays in a harder division and with less talent than Tennessee.

I am NOT saying that Butch Jones and his staff have to be fired now. What I am saying is that good coaches do not take years to turn around a program. Especially one with the history of UT. and they especially win the football games that they are supposed to win and then win games that they are not supposed to win. Nick Saban didnt take that long to turn around Bama and Urban Meyer didnt take that long to turn around Florida. Also, on a much different scale, Franklin took Vanderbilt to places it had never been, even though that's not saying much.
Click to expand...

I will argue that Hugh freeze took over for Houston Nutt who was good at finding Tallent butch took over for Dooley who any player he signed that was OK had been kicked off the team or graduated and the hole team was a nut case. Not to mention the kiffen debacle. . To sum it up freeze took over a more stable situation
 
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