UT will get to see a good example first hand in two weeks.......

#76
#76
MWAVolfan said:
First, the o-line that was left to Jones was good, but not deep for sure.

Second, Ole Miss went 4-8 and 2-10. I'd say you have to be pretty bad at all positions, including o-line to product that record.

Even if Dooley didnt recruit o-line well, we still were not as bad off as Ole Miss because we've never had such terrible records as that.

Besides, as I mentioned before, UT's recruiting classes for the last 6 years have been better than Ole Miss except for one year. So not only did Freeze inherit a horrible team, but he did not restock it to the level that Tennessee did.
Click to expand...

Even 4&5 star QBs and runningbacks need someone that can block for them.

I understand having high expectations. What is ridiculous is the cry for coachs' heads after just a year and a couple months. Let these guys get their kids in and develop them before we start executing them and replacing them.
 
#77
#77
MWAVolfan said:
First, the o-line that was left to Jones was good, but not deep for sure.

Second, Ole Miss went 4-8 and 2-10. I'd say you have to be pretty bad at all positions, including o-line to product that record.

Even if Dooley didnt recruit o-line well, we still were not as bad off as Ole Miss because we've never had such terrible records as that.

Besides, as I mentioned before, UT's recruiting classes for the last 6 years have been better than Ole Miss except for one year. So not only did Freeze inherit a horrible team, but he did not restock it to the level that Tennessee did.
Click to expand...

oh yeah, first we lose a starting qb and every wr with any kind of experience.

next, we lose the whole starting o line.

not to mention that we have about seven guys on def playing that have been recruited by jones that Are juco's , sophmores, or freshmen.

damn, we was left with so much...????
 
Last edited:
#78
#78
BeattieFeathers said:
If Dooley recruited so good, why are we playing two true freshmen on the oline. Why did we start a walk on at lt in the opener? Why are we down two full classes for o linemen? Dem facts are stubborn things!
Click to expand...

The facts are that Tennessee's recruiting was and has been consistently better than Ole Miss. those are facts.

The difference is in who UT has/had as a coach and who Ole Miss has as a coach.

Freeze had to rebuild a team that was worse than UT (2-10 versus 5-7).

I have facts too.
 
#80
#80
UTFootballFan said:
Even 4&5 star QBs and runningbacks need someone that can block for them.

I understand having high expectations. What is ridiculous is the cry for coachs' heads after just a year and a couple months. Let these guys get their kids in and develop them before we start executing them and replacing them.
Click to expand...

Who is calling for Jone's head?

I am calling out the ridiculous fan base that thinks it takes years and years to rebuild by providing a very real and comparable example.
 
#81
#81
The key difference is Ole MiSS didn't hire a Kiffin to burn their program down after Nutt and they didn't compound the mistake by hiring a Dooley before hiring Freeze.

It is, what it is.

Unfortunately.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#82
#82
Year One: took a team that previously went 2-10 and went 7-6, a winning season with a bowl victory, 2012 recruiting class ranked 40th, 13th out of 14 teams in the SEC

Year Two: 8-5, a marked improvement, also with a bowl victory recruiting class ranked #7, 4th in the SEC

Year Three: 5-0 for the first time in multiple generations, ranked #3 in the nation, just beat Alabama, recruiting class ranked #19, 10th out of 14 in the SEC



1. So Freeze gets 3 years and Butch gets 1.5??

2. Kiffins one class is generally reguarded as one of worst ever, did Miss have that??

3. And that was sandwiched in between Fulmers average class and DD's very average to below average classes!

4. And Oh Yeah, was Hugh Freeze their 4th coach and staff in five years???

Yeah a real apples to apples comparison Jackass!!! :banghead2:



,
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#83
#83
MWAVolfan said:
People who say that coaches should be given more time and it takes years to rebuild etc.... in two weeks we are going to go to Ole Miss and probably get monkey stomped by the rebels. We will see first hand what program recovery SHOULD look like.


Here is the story of Ole Miss:

Last two years under Houston Nutt:
4-8 and 2-10. Tennessee has NEVER had records this bad, even under Dooley. I think we can all agree that Ole Miss was just as broken, if not more so, than UT when Nutt left than when Dooley left UT.

Hugh Freeze had exactly ONE year of head coaching experience prior to Ole Miss. I'd think that's pretty much the definition of a no-name coaching hire.

Here is what Hugh has done:

Year One: took a team that previously went 2-10 and went 7-6, a winning season with a bowl victory, 2012 recruiting class ranked 40th, 13th out of 14 teams in the SEC

Year Two: 8-5, a marked improvement, also with a bowl victory recruiting class ranked #7, 4th in the SEC

Year Three: 5-0 for the first time in multiple generations, ranked #3 in the nation, just beat Alabama, recruiting class ranked #19, 10th out of 14 in the SEC

This was all accomplished while playing in the same division as Alabama, Auburn, LSU, and TA&M and other than last year, the recruiting classes have not been stellar at all. Since 2009, Tennessee has had a higher ranked recruiting class in all but one year. So Ole miss plays in a harder division and with less talent than Tennessee.

I am NOT saying that Butch Jones and his staff have to be fired now. What I am saying is that good coaches do not take years to turn around a program. Especially one with the history of UT. and they especially win the football games that they are supposed to win and then win games that they are not supposed to win. Nick Saban didnt take that long to turn around Bama and Urban Meyer didnt take that long to turn around Florida. Also, on a much different scale, Franklin took Vanderbilt to places it had never been, even though that's not saying much.
Click to expand...

Two years ago LSU and Alabama were the only good teams in the west, so saying it was a tougher division then isn't really true. So now Hugh Freeze has 3 of his recruiting classes there and Butch Jones really only has one. So maybe you shouldn't be so quick as to call this a crappy rebuilding project after a season and a half?

I don't know how many people realize this, but we are bringing in another top-10, maybe top-5 recruiting class AND returning 18 of 22 starters. Isn't anyone else excited by this?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#84
#84
loggervol said:
oh yeah, first we loose a starting qb and every wr with any kind of experience.

next, we lose the whole starting o line.

not to mention that we have about seven guys on def playing that have been recruited by jones that Are juco's , sophmores, or freshmen.

damn, we was left with so much...????
Click to expand...

Dooley had 5 returning offensive starters and 6 returning defensive starters in 2010.

Jones had 5 returning offensive starters and 8 defensive returning starters in 2013.
 
#86
#86
JonGrudensAgent said:
Dooley had 5 returning offensive starters and 6 returning defensive starters in 2010.

Jones had 5 returning offensive starters and 8 defensive returning starters in 2013.
Click to expand...

and most of the def players were sooo fast.:eek:lol:

and those 5 returning starters on off. was the o line that left last year........:eek:lol:
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#88
#88
MWAVolfan said:
The remainder of our schedule is easier than theirs. I'd be willing to bet we take more losses than they do.

They will lose to Auburn and maybe one other team. I said it before the season started when people said over and over that we would beat Ole Miss that they were a much better team than people gave them credit for. They play in a super tough division.
Click to expand...

We will beat ole miss
 
#89
#89
JonGrudensAgent said:
Dooley had 5 returning offensive starters and 6 returning defensive starters in 2010.

Jones had 5 returning offensive starters and 8 defensive returning starters in 2013.
Click to expand...

The returning starters for Dooley is why he made a bowl game his first year.

The returning starters for Jones is why he didn't make a bowl game his first year.

There was quite a bit of talent difference in what was inherited between the two.
 
#90
#90
Good post OP.
I understand the necessity of having patience in our situation. Patience is all that we have been fed for the last 10 years. We freaking understand patience. But the thought of having to say "next year" again this season makes us want to pull our hair out so emotions and pride make our fans look for proof that we will be ok and that Butch is not another failed hire. So, we look to our coaches history. That only tells us so much. And really does not show us what he can do in the current battle field. Then, we look for improvement over the last year 1/2 here. We can see marked improvement in certain key areas and recruiting has been awesome. So those are bright spots and encouraging but recruiting is not just personality based, it is performance based and that can change for the bad quickly. With such uncertainty it is perfectly normal to want to compare our progress against others in similar or worse situations. When we see glaring examples of immediate progress from other programs, it causes us to pause and reevaluate this new staff. It's natural. Our fan base...hell, our team, has been so accustomed to falling short, or having hope and then having that hope trampled under a spotlight, that we are gun-shy and are naturally trying to protect ourselves from future hurt. I promise you...the negavols and off-with-his-head'ers are just as passionate (if not more) about this program as any sunshine pumper. We just have to let people go through the motions (or emotions) of settling into the next 2-3 years of the climb. We all knew this was the most likely trek from our not-so-glamorous hire but, it still sucks to watch us throw away a game that we are coached well enough and talented enough to win. We have to look somewhere for the reasons why we lost. Don't we?
 
#91
#91
loggervol said:
and most of the def players were sooo fast.:eek:lol:
Click to expand...

Maybe they weren't "coached right".

7 out of 11 starters on Saturday came in under Dooley.

Look, I am no Dooley fan and he was easily the worst coach this program has ever had by my estimation.

But playing the cupboard is bare card just won't fly when Jones is on par with Dooley at this point with similar circumstances in the rosters.

I have not called for a single firing but the days of any coach getting 4-5 year free passes are done and gone.

That's just the reality of the game today whether you or I like it or not.

The rest of this season is crucial in taking a step forward. Next year will be even bigger for Jones.

Cleaning up the stupid turnovers and penalties that have nothing to do with a players talent level and putting a credible offense on the field will be critical for this program to take those steps.
 
#93
#93
A couple things you are not considering when comparing Mississippi to UT in terms of rebuilding. Most of you won't admit just how far UT had fallen in terms of talent, yes even below that of Mississippi. Hugh Freeze was replacing an absolute disaster of a head coach in Houston Nutt but he did leave talent behind unlike Derek Dooley who was a disaster as well but left zero talent and depth at key positions. Mississippi is not a pressure cooker like UT in terms of expectations and patience, and they have not been handicapped by massive debt, NCAA probation, or a negative perception by much of the nation outside the South.
 
#95
#95
landscapingvol said:
A couple things you are not considering when comparing Mississippi to UT in terms of rebuilding. Most of you won't admit just how far UT had fallen in terms of talent, yes even below that of Mississippi. Hugh Freeze was replacing an absolute disaster of a head coach in Houston Nutt but he did leave talent behind unlike Derek Dooley who was a disaster as well but left zero talent and depth at key positions. Mississippi is not a pressure cooker like UT in terms of expectations and patience, and they have not been handicapped by massive debt, NCAA probation, or a negative perception by much of the nation outside the South.
Click to expand...

How did Tennessee have less talent when Butch replaced Dooley? Dooley signed higher rated classes than Nutt did.
 
#98
#98
The game at Ole Miss is going to be painful to watch if the inconsistency of the offense and craptactical play calling continues heading into that game.
 
#99
#99
Vol_is_Lyfe18 said:
How did Tennessee have less talent when Butch replaced Dooley? Dooley signed higher rated classes than Nutt did.
Click to expand...

Dooley did absolutely nothing to bring the talent these guys had in high school out of them, that's how. Nutt probably brought in an offensive lineman ever now and then also so there was a few replacements when they all left.
 
#100
#100
JonGrudensAgent said:
Maybe they weren't "coached right".

7 out of 11 starters on Saturday came in under Dooley.

Look, I am no Dooley fan and he was easily the worst coach this program has ever had by my estimation.

But playing the cupboard is bare card just won't fly when Jones is on par with Dooley at this point with similar circumstances in the rosters.

I have not called for a single firing but the days of any coach getting 4-5 year free passes are done and gone.

That's just the reality of the game today whether you or I like it or not.

The rest of this season is crucial in taking a step forward. Next year will be even bigger for Jones.

Cleaning up the stupid turnovers and penalties that have nothing to do with a players talent level and putting a credible offense on the field will be critical for this program to take those steps.
Click to expand...

I can go along with most of this but I believe most of the def. talent, especially the db's have been recruited over or can't get on the field. the ones that are playing that came in under doolfus are sharing time with true freshmen and very close to being backups. brian Randolph excluded.

I should have said lbs also. excluding aj and maggit.
 
Last edited:
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top