UT @ Miami 2003

[Jaytrain5]

Not according to recruiting rankings, the All-SEC teams that year, or the NFL, all of which had us about even or slightly behind LSU in talent. That's what was ludicrous -- UT fans thinking we were much better, or better at all, than LSU. We were even or behind, talent-wise. UT fans just didn't know much about LSU because their talent pool was a relatively new phenomenon for LSU and Saban a relatively new face in the SEC at the time.

Tennessee had 9 players selected in the first 3 rounds of the 2002 & 2003 NFL drafts (including 3 first round picks). LSU had just 1 player taken in the first 3 rounds of those drafts.

Yeah, Tennessee really had the inferior talent in that match-up.

 

[CardassianVol]

This is a ridiculous rewriting of history, but any way you look at it, after that game, UT football has not been the same.

 

[UTodd01]

Not according to recruiting rankings, the All-SEC teams that year, or the NFL, all of which had us about even or slightly behind LSU in talent. That's what was ludicrous -- UT fans thinking we were much better, or better at all, than LSU. We were even or behind, talent-wise. UT fans just didn't know much about LSU because their talent pool was a relatively new phenomenon for LSU and Saban a relatively new face in the SEC at the time.

Wow...
:lolabove:

 

[LittleJohnny]

That was the beginning of Tennessee fans having ludicrous expectations. We win as an 18 point underdog, then are over-hyped going into a LSU game with fantastic young talent, and everyone just expected an easy win. When it didn't happen, many of the fans quickly forgot the Florida win and the Michigan win to come. Of course, if we'd won that game, we would have been killed by Miami, and then many UT fans would only remember the Miami game. It was a sign of the times.

You understand we beat LSU earlier that year in Knoxville - correct? We made several mistakes early in the game, but still was ahead 26-7 in the 4th quarter. Unfortunately, we went into our shell and let LSU back into the game. So I don't think it was unreasonable for Tennessee fans to expect we could beat LSU.

 

[justinp98_65]

I for one think we would have been a nightmare for Miami that year.

Travis Stephens was running all over everybody.
Casy Clausen throwing to Kelly Washington, Donte' Stallworth, and Jason Witten at tight end.

Haynesworth and Henderson at DT.

The 2001 team is probably my favorite Vol team ...the 2001 Florida game my favorite game, and the spanking of Meechigin one of my favorite bowls.

Just my opinion.

+1 We had 3 first rounders that year. Would've been 4 had washington gone instead of coming back.

And I loved the Spurrier quote at the end of that florida game. "They just kicked our tails. Tennessee deserved to win the game. They ran it down our throats pretty good." "It hurts. We knew what was on the line. I don't know what else you can say. They kicked our tails. I hope I can watch the tape and say they were lucky, but I know I can't say that at all. No excuses. I'm proud of a lot of our guys. A lot of our guys played their hearts out, but as a team we didn't play well enough to beat a real good team."

My favorite game of the decade was the game, I can't remeber what year, when Jason Witten caught the game-winning TD in the 6th OT against Arkansas.

Pretty sure that was '02.

 

[justinp98_65]

You understand we beat LSU earlier that year in Knoxville - correct? We made several mistakes early in the game, but still was ahead 26-7 in the 4th quarter. Unfortunately, we went into our shell and let LSU back into the game. So I don't think it was unreasonable for Tennessee fans to expect we could beat LSU.

Also, we knocked the starting QB out of the game. We had a defensive strategy for Rohan Davey a mobile, big QB and when Mauck came out, we didn't have an answer for the change. Good ol' prevent defense...

 

[Jaytrain5]

Also, we knocked the starting QB out of the game.

...and, Labrandon Toefield, their starting tailback.

 

[justinp98_65]

...and, Labrandon Toefield, their starting tailback.

That's right!!! I remember that now!

I was so certain we...I...was going to the NC that year! I have family in Pasadena, and I had tickets offered to me by someone who could get them. I don't know if we would've beaten Miami that year, but I know I would've had a helluva time at the Rose Bowl!

 

[USAF_Vol]

Private Winslow reporting for duty

YouTube - Kellen Winslow is a soldier

 

[Infinite_vol615]

Private Winslow reporting for duty

YouTube - Kellen Winslow is a soldier

lol he mad

 

[VegasVol]

Yeah, if you only count juniors and seniors, and you only count the first 3 rounds of the draft, UT was more talented; unfortunately, only juniors and seniors don't play the game. If Alabama couldn't play Ingram or Richardson or Julio Jones or Mark Barron or the rest of their talented freshman and sophomores, then Texas was more talented than Alabama. Heck, maybe even we were.

Here's the facts for that kids in the Tennessee fan base that recurrently demonstrate their complete lack of knowledge for the history of college football...

1. Recruiting Rankings
SuperPrep Recruiting Rankings
LSU
1998 - 9th
1999 - 9th
2000 - 12th
2001 - 2nd
Avg: 8.5

UT
1998 - 8th
1999 - 13th
2000 - 5th
2001 - 12th
Avg: 9.5

Newsflash: 8.5 is better than 9.5
# of Top 10 Recruiting Classes on 2001 Roster:
LSU: 3
UT: 2

2. All-Conference Recognition
LSU: 7
Tennessee: 5

# of All-SEC Offensive Skill Position Players According to the Associated Press:
LSU: 4
UT: 1

3. NFL

# of NFL Multi-Year Starters on the Roster:
LSU: 14
UT: 9

# of Players Who Made an NFL Roster
LSU: 28
UT: 21

# of NFL Players Who Made an NFL Roster By Position on 2001 Teams

QB
LSU: 3
UT: 0

RB
LSU: 3 (1 wr/rb hybrid)
UT: 1

TE
LSU: 2
UT: 1

WR
LSU: 3
UT: 3

OL
LSU: 3
UT: 3

DL
LSU: 6
UT: 6

LB
LSU: 3
UT: 2

DB
LSU: 7
UT: 5

P/K/PR/KR
LSU: 4
UT: 1

So let's recap. The recruiters says LSU had more talent; the coaches who watched both teams, said LSU had more talent; the media who watched both teams said LSU had more talent; the NFL scouts who selected players said LSU had more talent; the general managers who give contracts said LSU had more talent; and the coaches who choose who starts said LSU had more talent. But the kids on here "know" it's just "absurd" to say LSU was merely as talented as Tennessee? Guess whose wrong...

 

[Jaytrain5]

If Alabama couldn't play Ingram or Richardson or Julio Jones or Mark Barron or the rest of their talented freshman and sophomores, then Texas was more talented than Alabama. Heck, maybe even we were.
.

Other than Matt Mauck (who was in his early 20's)and Michael Clayton, can you name a single freshman or sophomore on that LSU team that made a significant contribution in that game?

 

[Kevinyaheard]

2001 Florida game was my favorite of the decade, and maybe our biggest win of the decade.

For me its a coin flip between that one and 2004. Two Frosh. QB's and that last drive Eric Ainge had that night? I thought for sure that he was BETTER THAN PEYTON MANNING... We were so SPOILED up to that point with good QB play!! Think about it, Andy Kelly-Decent, Heath Shuler-Awesome College QB, and then Peyton Manning-Wow...Man we thought that was gonna go on forever...Good times... :yes:

 

[Kevinyaheard]

Yeah, if you only count juniors and seniors, and you only count the first 3 rounds of the draft, UT was more talented; unfortunately, only juniors and seniors don't play the game. If Alabama couldn't play Ingram or Richardson or Julio Jones or Mark Barron or the rest of their talented freshman and sophomores, then Texas was more talented than Alabama. Heck, maybe even we were.

Here's the facts for that kids in the Tennessee fan base that recurrently demonstrate their complete lack of knowledge for the history of college football...

1. Recruiting Rankings
SuperPrep Recruiting Rankings
LSU
1998 - 9th
1999 - 9th
2000 - 12th
2001 - 2nd
Avg: 8.5

UT
1998 - 8th
1999 - 13th
2000 - 5th
2001 - 12th
Avg: 9.5

Newsflash: 8.5 is better than 9.5
# of Top 10 Recruiting Classes on 2001 Roster:
LSU: 3
UT: 2

2. All-Conference Recognition
LSU: 7
Tennessee: 5

# of All-SEC Offensive Skill Position Players According to the Associated Press:
LSU: 4
UT: 1

3. NFL

# of NFL Multi-Year Starters on the Roster:
LSU: 14
UT: 9

# of Players Who Made an NFL Roster
LSU: 28
UT: 21

# of NFL Players Who Made an NFL Roster By Position on 2001 Teams

QB
LSU: 3
UT: 0

RB
LSU: 3 (1 wr/rb hybrid)
UT: 1

TE
LSU: 2
UT: 1

WR
LSU: 3
UT: 3

OL
LSU: 3
UT: 3

DL
LSU: 6
UT: 6

LB
LSU: 3
UT: 2

DB
LSU: 7
UT: 5

P/K/PR/KR
LSU: 4
UT: 1

So let's recap. The recruiters says LSU had more talent; the coaches who watched both teams, said LSU had more talent; the media who watched both teams said LSU had more talent; the NFL scouts who selected players said LSU had more talent; the general managers who give contracts said LSU had more talent; and the coaches who choose who starts said LSU had more talent. But the kids on here "know" it's just "absurd" to say LSU was merely as talented as Tennessee? Guess whose wrong...

Hey now, its not fair to use facts to support your argument!!! We only approve of the "because I say so" and the "you are just wrong" defenses on here... lmao :birgits_giggle:

 

[VegasVol]

Freshmen & Sophomore Players Who Played in SEC Title Game
Matt Mauck
LeBrandon Toefield
Michael Clayton
Devery Henderson
Stephen Petermen
Ben Wilkerson
Marquise Hill
Lionel Turner
Travis Daniels
Marcus Spears
Corey Webster
Erin Damond
Randall Gay
Eric Alexander
Chad Lavalis

So, yeah, I'd call 15 players in the game on offensive or defensive snaps as an impact. UT fans who keep boasting of how much "more" talented UT was were mostly saying "we don't know **** about our opponents."

 

[Jaytrain5]

Freshmen & Sophomore Players Who Played in SEC Title Game
Matt Mauck
LeBrandon Toefield
Michael Clayton
Devery Henderson
Stephen Petermen
Ben Wilkerson
Marquise Hill
Lionel Turner
Travis Daniels
Marcus Spears
Corey Webster
Erin Damond
Randall Gay
Eric Alexander
Chad Lavalis

So, yeah, I'd call 15 players in the game on offensive or defensive snaps as an impact. UT fans who keep boasting of how much "more" talented UT was were mostly saying "we don't know **** about our opponents."

I ask for significant contributions, and you offer "snaps." Nicely done.

Toefield left the game with less than 20 yards rushing. Devery Henderson had less than 5 yards receiving on the game.

Randall Gay and Chad Lavalais were in on a couple of tackles...that's about it.

Nobody's arguing that LSU didn't have young talent...but that young talent didn't win them the game.

LSU won the game because of its edge on the sidelines.

 

[LittleJohnny]

Yeah, if you only count juniors and seniors, and you only count the first 3 rounds of the draft, UT was more talented; unfortunately, only juniors and seniors don't play the game. If Alabama couldn't play Ingram or Richardson or Julio Jones or Mark Barron or the rest of their talented freshman and sophomores, then Texas was more talented than Alabama. Heck, maybe even we were.

Here's the facts for that kids in the Tennessee fan base that recurrently demonstrate their complete lack of knowledge for the history of college football...

1. Recruiting Rankings
SuperPrep Recruiting Rankings
LSU
1998 - 9th
1999 - 9th
2000 - 12th
2001 - 2nd
Avg: 8.5

UT
1998 - 8th
1999 - 13th
2000 - 5th
2001 - 12th
Avg: 9.5

Newsflash: 8.5 is better than 9.5
# of Top 10 Recruiting Classes on 2001 Roster:
LSU: 3
UT: 2

2. All-Conference Recognition
LSU: 7
Tennessee: 5

# of All-SEC Offensive Skill Position Players According to the Associated Press:
LSU: 4
UT: 1

3. NFL

# of NFL Multi-Year Starters on the Roster:
LSU: 14
UT: 9

# of Players Who Made an NFL Roster
LSU: 28
UT: 21

# of NFL Players Who Made an NFL Roster By Position on 2001 Teams

QB
LSU: 3
UT: 0

RB
LSU: 3 (1 wr/rb hybrid)
UT: 1

TE
LSU: 2
UT: 1

WR
LSU: 3
UT: 3

OL
LSU: 3
UT: 3

DL
LSU: 6
UT: 6

LB
LSU: 3
UT: 2

DB
LSU: 7
UT: 5

P/K/PR/KR
LSU: 4
UT: 1

So let's recap. The recruiters says LSU had more talent; the coaches who watched both teams, said LSU had more talent; the media who watched both teams said LSU had more talent; the NFL scouts who selected players said LSU had more talent; the general managers who give contracts said LSU had more talent; and the coaches who choose who starts said LSU had more talent. But the kids on here "know" it's just "absurd" to say LSU was merely as talented as Tennessee? Guess whose wrong...

According to this article, CNNSI.com - SI Online - Mike Fish - Viewpoint - CNNSI.com's Mike Fish: Feeding the frenzy - Friday February 08, 2002 01:41 PM , SuperPrep rankings were:

Yeah, if you only count juniors and seniors, and you only count the first 3 rounds of the draft, UT was more talented; unfortunately, only juniors and seniors don't play the game. If Alabama couldn't play Ingram or Richardson or Julio Jones or Mark Barron or the rest of their talented freshman and sophomores, then Texas was more talented than Alabama. Heck, maybe even we were.

Here's the facts for that kids in the Tennessee fan base that recurrently demonstrate their complete lack of knowledge for the history of college football...

1. Recruiting Rankings
SuperPrep Recruiting Rankings
LSU
1998 - 9th
1999 - 9th
2000 - 26th
2001 - 2nd
Avg: 11.5

UT
1998 - 8th
1999 - 12th
2000 - 2nd
2001 - 12th
Avg: 8.5

Newsflash: 8.5 is better than 11.5
# of Top 15 Recruiting Classes on 2001 Roster:
LSU: 3
UT: 4

In this article, SEC Sports News » LSU Tops UT 31-20 in 2001 SEC Football Championship , the words upset and remarkable upset are used to describe LSU's victory over Tennessee. It appears at one or more people in the national media thought Tennessee was better. According to the Vegas betting line, Tennessee was the favorite. The article quotes Fulmer as saying it was the worst game Tennessee had played all year so I don't think the head coach agrees with your statement.

As far as your numbers of players in the NFL by position, I know some of them are wrong. For instance, Tennessee had 3 rbs - Stephens, Fleming, Houston - that played in the NFL. Special teams - Colquitt, Stallworth & Parker returned punts while LSU's Davis returned punts and kickoffs. Not sure how you have 4 if the same guy did both.

Many very good college players do not make it in the NFL. 2001 Heisman Trophy winner - Eric Crouch, QB Nebraska.

Plain and simple - Tennessee could have and should have won that game. Unfortunately, Tennessee made some costly mistakes and were outcoached.

 

[n2motorsports]

I have this game, and others, on dvd. If anyone is looking for a copy I could do it. nnease15@aol.com

 

[armchair]

The 1990 Florida and Alabama games were just as bad, if you ask me.

We had a better chance to win the national championship in 1990 than we did of beating Miami 11 years later. At least until the Bama game...

have about four future NFL players on offense--and led by OC Phil Fulmer, scored a whopping six points?!

As for the 2003 win at Miami, I think that was one of the worst Miami teams the Canes had had, at that point, in about 20 years. They've had some lean years since, but that team was weak--because we weren't very good and won. Wasn't that the game where we scored the winning TD by running a reverse from, like, the Miami 2 yard-line--which is very dumb but it worked. It's the only time in decades of watching football that I've seen a reverse run from the 2, but hey...

 

[VegasVol]

I ask for significant contributions, and you offer "snaps." Nicely done.

Toefield left the game with less than 20 yards rushing. Devery Henderson had less than 5 yards receiving on the game.

Randall Gay and Chad Lavalais were in on a couple of tackles...that's about it.

Nobody's arguing that LSU didn't have young talent...but that young talent didn't win them the game.

LSU won the game because of its edge on the sidelines.

I like your ever-changing evolving standards. First, it's only NFL players who count. When that proves you're wrong, then it's only "juniors and seniors who make significant contributions" who count. When that proves you wrong, it's only statistical contributions who count. Keep working at changing the standard, and maybe you'll find some way to say what every recruiting analyst, SEC media rep, SEC coach, NFL scout, NFL GM, and NFL coach said about the talent on the two teams -- that LSU had more.

One note -- by your definition, Tennessee only had 2 players on defense make a significant contribution and had zero offensive lineman make a significant contribution. Randall Gay was the 2nd leading tackler that night, for example. In fact, according to your new defensive standard, Haynesworth and Overtstreet were not "significant" players in the game.

But, even by your latest preposterous standard for measuring talent on the team -- statistical contributions by a player in a game -- guess who had more talent?

NFL Starters with More Than 50 Yards in the Game
Tennessee: 2
LSU: 5

NFL Starters With More Than 3 Combined Tackles or Assisted Tackled or Sacks
Tennessee: 5
LSU: 7

So that's 12 LSU NFL starters making a difference compared to a whopping 7 for Tennessee. Even your latest standard confirms the same fact -- Tennessee has LESS talent than LSU despite the mythical and religious belief it was otherwise amongst the kiddies in the Tennessee fan base. Talent is what won that game, pure and simple. I like Saban, but he has improved by leaps and bounds. But for Saban's mediocrity his first two years in Baton Rouge before he got his footing, LSU should have won a national title sooner than later. Coaching was the last reason for their success that season; people just didn't spot it because LSU hadn't been a power in so long.

 

[Jaytrain5]

I like your ever-changing evolving standards. First, it's only NFL players who count. When that proves you're wrong, then it's only "juniors and seniors who make significant contributions" who count. When that proves you wrong, it's only statistical contributions who count. Keep working at changing the standard, and maybe you'll find some way to say what every recruiting analyst, SEC media rep, SEC coach, NFL scout, NFL GM, and NFL coach said about the talent on the two teams -- that LSU had more.

One note -- by your definition, Tennessee only had 2 players on defense make a significant contribution and had zero offensive lineman make a significant contribution. Randall Gay was the 2nd leading tackler that night, for example. In fact, according to your new defensive standard, Haynesworth and Overtstreet were not "significant" players in the game.

But, even by your latest preposterous standard for measuring talent on the team -- statistical contributions by a player in a game -- guess who had more talent?

NFL Starters with More Than 50 Yards in the Game
Tennessee: 2
LSU: 5

NFL Starters With More Than 3 Combined Tackles or Assisted Tackled or Sacks
Tennessee: 5
LSU: 7

So that's 12 LSU NFL starters making a difference compared to a whopping 7 for Tennessee. Even your latest standard confirms the same fact -- Tennessee has LESS talent than LSU despite the mythical and religious belief it was otherwise amongst the kiddies in the Tennessee fan base. Talent is what won that game, pure and simple. I like Saban, but he has improved by leaps and bounds. But for Saban's mediocrity his first two years in Baton Rouge before he got his footing, LSU should have won a national title sooner than later. Coaching was the last reason for their success that season; people just didn't spot it because LSU hadn't been a power in so long.

Don't even know what you're talking about now. The one thing I do know is that you're putting way too much time and effort into this with the numbers and all.

I haven't changed my position once. I stand by my original statement....Tennessee had the better football team. LSU had the better coaching staff.

You've countered, but haven't done anything to disprove that. We disagree, and that's fine.

I can't continue yammering with you though because it takes you 8 hours to respond. By that time, I'm no longer interested.

 

[VegasVol]

"As far as your numbers of players in the NFL by position, I know some of them are wrong. For instance, Tennessee had 3 rbs - Stephens, Fleming, Houston - that played in the NFL. Special teams - Colquitt, Stallworth & Parker returned punts while LSU's Davis returned punts and kickoffs. Not sure how you have 4 if the same guy did both."

Stephens was cut and never made it in the league. You're correct, I did leave out fullbacks, so Fleming should be added. LSU's punter & kicker would also be in the NFL. You're right about punt returners, though, for us, and Colquitt. So on special teams, it would be 4 for LSU (both kickers & both returners) and 2 for us (the punter & punt returner).

 

[VegasVol]

Don't even know what you're talking about now....

I haven't changed my position once.

By your definition of "significant contributions" LSU had more NFL talent (almost double) than Tennessee in the game. That's what I'm talking about. What is true is that you don't let facts get in the way of your opinion. That would make you emblematic of the new kiddie fans in Tennessee land, an embarrassment to our football knowledge tradition almost as bad as the last coaching icon of such fans, the kiddie Kiffin.