UT and other SEC Schools and Fans Racists?

[patrick]

So, that was the purpose of the "petition"? To provide extra fire and motivation. Seems like you are rewriting history a little bit to suit your own feelings.

The point is in my opinion that CCM referred to the Petition himself and said that it woke up a bear and motivated him and the players even said the Petition motivated them to prove people wrong.

 

[TGVol]

So you are a Cuonzo Martin fan instead of a UT fan?

You sound oddly hopeful for that downhill tract.

I'm a UT fan who resents fools who ran off a very successful coach (who was also a very decent man any way you want to look at it). If the program goes downhill from here (I don't want that but think it's high probability) I will keep reminding those morons whose fault that is (whenever I feel like it and find time and energy to do it).

 

[VolsSportsFan]

I think they got pissed, rallied, and played the best 9 games in Martins career after it came out. Teams and players, especially struggling, will rally around anything, even if insignificant and that was very significant.
UT under Martin in 60-70 games never played like they did until after the damn thing came out.
And that's all fans wanted anyway. Sweet 16 team that many of us saw was headed to the NIT. One would really have to wonder what would have driven them had it not happen.
And I'm not taking credit. Just discussing what in reality looks like occurred and Martin's comments even back it up.

Yep. See Fulmer 2007.

 

[patrick]

Martin has too much class to get into back/forth with fans on this and certainly dose not want to create public perception that something like petition can make him quit - but given a choice between coaching at place where fans behave like that or going somewhere where that's less likely to be an issue - pretty clear what most people would prefer. It's also clear from statements of his players what kind of problem this petition was and how much the whole team resented it (players probably now feel much less of an attachment to the university because of it and that will be a problem for the next coach). By the way, when the team starts playing well has nothing to do with petitions - you can't just flip a switch (of any kind) and make someone perform - otherwise any team who wants to save their coach would do that and coaches would not get fired all over the place as often as they do. What happened with this team is that they happened to come together and started playing well later in the year and that's all there is too it (hard work often pays off eventually and it's not surprising with defensive minded teams for this to happen later in the seasons or during playoffs - you see that all the time in all sports - college or professional).

not according to CCM himself and his players. did you not watch any of the post game player interviews in the AA tourney? guess you did not catch CCM's interview with HH or Hyams.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

I agree with this somewhat. Having a chance to pull it together against some bottom feeders and get confidence back was a big part of what went on. However, the Mizzo game was huge, and was essentially an elimination game for the NCAA tournament. U.T. came out and handled them from the start. I was lucky enough to be in T.B. for that game, and it was a great atmosphere.

Yeah, I think it speaks just as poorly on Martin's coaching acumen from a motivation standpoint to say that the petition was the sole reason for that tourney run.

Not saying that's your position by any stretch, but it is for some people on here.

Like anything else, there were numerous mitigating factors that led to that tourney run: the opponents, the seniors staring down the end of a college career, Martin's job security.

I had a great time in Raleigh and cheered as much as anyone but I never felt like that run was a result of a light bulb coming on so much for Martin and his staff as it was good timing.

I appreciate Martin for that run but I have no respect for how he has handled his departure or the aftermath.

If he cared about this program and fans as much as he says, he could squash these stupid stories with one 10 minute interview.

 

[drewtigeralum]

The point is in my opinion that CCM referred to the Petition himself and said that it woke up a bear and motivated him and the players even said the Petition motivated them to prove people wrong.

Do you think the season plays out differently without the petition (no way to know of course).

I think U.T. still beats MS. St., Vandy, Auburn, Mizzo, and SCAR.

I still think they still lose to U.F in the S.E.C. tournament.

 

[patrick]

I'm a UT fan who resents fools who ran off a very successful coach (who was also a very decent man any way you want to look at it). If the program goes downhill from here (I don't want that but think it's high probability) I will keep reminding those morons whose fault that is (whenever I feel like it and find time and energy to do it).

Very Successful????? Seriously???

If you truly think this then CBP was and is one of the best coaches in the NCAA.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

I'm a UT fan who resents fools who ran off a very successful coach (who was also a very decent man any way you want to look at it). If the program goes downhill from here (I don't want that but think it's high probability) I will keep reminding those morons whose fault that is (whenever I feel like it and find time and energy to do it).

It could be argued the bigger fool is the one who let an online petition make his career choices for him and turning down a 1/2 million dollar raise if the petition did indeed have that much of an impact on Martin's decision.

Good to see you're planning on being the conscience for all the "morons" here at VN though.

 

[drewtigeralum]

Yeah, I think it speaks just as poorly on Martin's coaching acumen from a motivation standpoint to say that the petition was the sole reason for that tourney run.

Not saying that's your position by any stretch, but it is for some people on here.

Like anything else, there were numerous mitigating factors that led to that tourney run: the opponents, the seniors staring down the end of a college career, Martin's job security.

I had a great time in Raleigh and cheered as much as anyone but I never felt like that run was a result of a light bulb coming on so much for Martin and his staff as it was good timing.

I appreciate Martin for that run but I have no respect for how he has handled his departure or the aftermath.

If he cared about this program and fans as much as he says, he could squash these stupid stories with one 10 minute interview.

My position is that the season plays out the same way with or without the petition, and the petition only served to tarnish U.T.'s national image. I also think that with the right hire, all will be forgiven and forgotten, but if U.T. screws this up, it's going to linger for a while. If the next coach, fair or unfair, doesn't have success in at least his second season, the "petition" will be brought back up. That doubles if Martin finds success at Cal while U.T. struggles.

I will freely admit that I have been a Martin fan much longer than I have been a U.T. fan (yes, I cheer for U.T., my wife is from Knoxville and graduated with her doctorate from U.T., I lived in Knoxville for 4 years, and enjoyed attending football and basketball games). Martin was not a finished product when he came to U.T., but he was hired to be the anti Bruce Pearl, at least of the court, and achieved that goal with no problem. I think he is a talented coach that was starting to find this legs. If U.T. goes with another unfinished product, I'm not sure how it isn't a step backwards for the program.

 

[Fresnovol]

bein from the south to now living in california,i can say that people are sterotypical when it comes to people from the south east region of this country. people just assume that because your from there that you are probably racist.. not that its true just something ive noticed while living out of the south

 

[patrick]

Do you think the season plays out differently without the petition (no way to know of course).

I think U.T. still beats MS. St., Vandy, Auburn, Mizzo, and SCAR.

I still think they still lose to U.F in the S.E.C. tournament.

Like you said "there is no way to know".

I try to operate in facts rather "what ifs" and speculation.

Fact is that multiple UT bball players referred to the Petition multiple times and said that they were going to prove UT fans wrong - they were going to "show" them!

Additionally as stated many times within this thread CCM said very similar things to Hallerin Hill and Jimmy Hyams in interviews yesterday.

 

[drewtigeralum]

bein from the south to now living in california,i can say that people are sterotypical when it comes to people from the south east region of this country. people just assume that because your from there that you are probably racist.. not that its true just something ive noticed while living out of the south

I grew up in South Carolina. I live in Texas now. I feel like even Texans consider the south east to be some relic from the past. Also, for the most part, Texans can't tell the difference between North and South Carolina.

 

[drewtigeralum]

Like you said "there is no way to know".

I try to operate in facts rather "what ifs" and speculation.

Fact is that multiple UT bball players referred to the Petition multiple times and said that they were going to prove UT fans wrong - they were going to "show" them!

Additionally as stated many times within this thread CCM said very similar things to Hallerin Hill and Jimmy Hyams in interviews yesterday.

Do you dispute the fact that the "petition" hurt U.T.'s national image and alienated the players?

 

[patrick]

And CCM has not had a recruiting class in top 30 while at UT and his roster (HIS and HIS alone) for next year is very average. CCM was looking at .500 year next year with HIS roster.

 

[GAVol]

bein from the south to now living in california,i can say that people are sterotypical when it comes to people from the south east region of this country. people just assume that because your from there that you are probably racist.. not that its true just something ive noticed while living out of the south

I think that's exactly what's happening with Forde. He's constructing a narrative to fit a set of unrelated facts. A white guy with Martin's demeanor and record would've been treated the same way in the wake of Bruce Pearl. The BBB movement was inevitable at the end of the show cause at the first sign of trouble no matter who the coach was.

 

[Spartacavolus]

I completely agree with this. Personally, I think things work out the same way, with or without the petition, with the petition only serving to hurt U.T.'s national image. I think we are going to disagree on that point, but that's ok.

I think U.T. needs to wish Martin well, put their heads down, sooth their current and former players, make a good hire, and give the new coach some time.

I'm sure the petition doesn't look good nationally. I'm just too old to care. We still have a chance to get a good ball coach and this will fly over. To boot, opinions nationally are often misinformed so why care if an opinion of somebody in New York is harsh? Program will be fine. UT will be fine. Those opinions are insignificant except that they hurt the pride of some. I have 2 degrees from UT and met my wife and best friends there. Not worried about a misinformed opinion about the basketball coach.

 

[drewtigeralum]

And CCM has not had a recruiting class in top 30 while at UT and his roster (HIS and HIS alone) for next year is very average. CCM was looking at .500 year next year with HIS roster.

Just wondering how predicting the future is dealing with facts.

I think next years roster could surprise, and you probably shouldn't write them off just yet. They return an emerging star in Richardson, a 5* player coming off of injury, and a bunch of guys that have been waiting their time playing behind some older guys.

 

[drewtigeralum]

I'm sure the petition doesn't look good nationally. I'm just too old to care. We still have a chance to get a good ball coach and this will fly over. To boot, opinions nationally are often misinformed so why care if an opinion of somebody in New York is harsh? Program will be fine. UT will be fine. Those opinions are insignificant except that they hurt the pride of some. I have 2 degrees from UT and met my wife and best friends there. Not worried about a misinformed opinion about the basketball coach.

I think it does hurt in terms of recruiting, and possibly attracting an upper level coach. That being said, the right hire does erase this little ugly blip in U.T. basketball history. If they don't get it right it is going to come back to haunt U.T.

 

[terrypedigo]

:banghead2:All I want is a good coach, I don't even think of color when a coach is hired, this is 2014, 90 percent of fans are not racist, that 10 percent will always be there, not just 1 way but both.

 

[Spartacavolus]

Do you think the season plays out differently without the petition (no way to know of course).

I think U.T. still beats MS. St., Vandy, Auburn, Mizzo, and SCAR.

I still think they still lose to U.F in the S.E.C. tournament.

we had won 2 games in a row one time during from early January to the Aggies game #2. During the season, we had a 4 game winning streak, but Tusculum and Moorehead were the opponents. The year prior we played badly at the wrong time and didn't do enough to get in.
Hard to say we go on a 5 game winning streak of the sort with no proof in martin's tenure at UT that it could happen.

 

[patrick]

Do you dispute the fact that the "petition" hurt U.T.'s national image and alienated the players?

That was not the point of my post nor the posts of Sparty. You are simply trying to deflect from the that point. Frankly I could care less what others think of the Petition - it was what it was. The Petition would have never been started had CCM not been under performing.

And the players well I think that they should have shut their collective mouths and played ball. Prior to the Petition they played uninspired basketball for 2 and 2/3's seasons. CCM said he used the Petition as a teaching tool which is interesting to say the least. It is never good for players or coaches to call out fans.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

My position is that the season plays out the same way with or without the petition, and the petition only served to tarnish U.T.'s national image. I also think that with the right hire, all will be forgiven and forgotten, but if U.T. screws this up, it's going to linger for a while. If the next coach, fair or unfair, doesn't have success in at least his second season, the "petition" will be brought back up. That doubles if Martin finds success at Cal while U.T. struggles.

I will freely admit that I have been a Martin fan much longer than I have been a U.T. fan (yes, I cheer for U.T., my wife is from Knoxville and graduated with her doctorate from U.T., I lived in Knoxville for 4 years, and enjoyed attending football and basketball games). Martin was not a finished product when he came to U.T., but he was hired to be the anti Bruce Pearl, at least of the court, and achieved that goal with no problem. I think he is a talented coach that was starting to find this legs. If U.T. goes with another unfinished product, I'm not sure how it isn't a step backwards for the program.

Fair enough. I can see that with Martin and felt from the onset that he probably wasn't ready for the job off the court as much as on it.

I think this petition has clouded the facts of the situation heavily and the media and a lot of fans are too focused on it.

Was it a black eye and stupid? Probably so, I know I chose not to sign it and paid little attention to it, especially after Clay Travis endorsed it.

But as I said yesterday, this isn't the first time a fan base has started a fire Coach X website either.

You hit on the ONLY point that really matters now though, whether Hart upgrades from Martin or not.

But you will still have people who want to play the conscience for other fans and keep bringing up the petition though if they struggle next season(which I think was a given regardless due to player attrition).

 

[Spartacavolus]

I think it does hurt in terms of recruiting, and possibly attracting an upper level coach. That being said, the right hire does erase this little ugly blip in U.T. basketball history. If they don't get it right it is going to come back to haunt U.T.

Pops, yemi, wes, chievous, Edwards, reese...

If it hurts that recruiting, I agree that we are in big trouble.

 

[patrick]

Just wondering how predicting the future is dealing with facts.

I think next years roster could surprise, and you probably shouldn't write them off just yet. They return an emerging star in Richardson, a 5* player coming off of injury, and a bunch of guys that have been waiting their time playing behind some older guys.

How much did those guys "Waiting their time" contribute this year? You must have watched different games than I did.

Fact is CCM's recruiting has been lack luster and his recruiting classes have NEVER cracked the top 30.

But you most telling comment has been that you were a CCM fan. Well I'm a UT fan and have been as long as I can remember (38+ years).

CCM's departure is best for him and best for the UT bball program.

 

[k-town_king]

we had won 2 games in a row one time during from early January to the Aggies game #2. During the season, we had a 4 game winning streak, but Tusculum and Moorehead were the opponents. The year prior we played badly at the wrong time and didn't do enough to get in.
Hard to say we go on a 5 game winning streak of the sort with no proof in martin's tenure at UT that it could happen.

He went on a big run of wins at the end of both of the previous years.