USC at 8-4 is now ranked....

#127
#127
robisc said:
For what it's worth, while everyone has their own ranking systems and they virtually mean nothing but bragging rights, this guy uses strictly computers and mathematical calculations and his predictions are usually very accurate, his system has UT at 21, just interesting to see where everyone is on here. College Football Computer Ratings
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Lol @ USCjr and Vanderbilt at 101 and 102.

I definitely think NW Missouri St should be higher than 11.
 
#128
#128
Call me crazy but I think teams should be ranked based on who they beat, not who they lost to. As for the teams ranked above us does anyone think they would have a problem beating any of the teams we did, other than UGA? SCAR lost to an FCS team, Vandy got destroyed by Houston. After you get past 2 losses it's more about who you've beaten than who beat you.
 
#129
#129
You guys can have all the stats, computer rankings, etc... you want. In the end all that matters is wins and losses. With 4 loses right now we don't deserve to be ranked. If we go 9-4 then I think we deserve it and will be ranked...
 
#130
#130
08Vol said:
Call me crazy but I think teams should be ranked based on who they beat, not who they lost to. As for the teams ranked above us does anyone think they would have a problem beating any of the teams we did, other than UGA? SCAR lost to an FCS team, Vandy got destroyed by Houston. After you get past 2 losses it's more about who you've beaten than who beat you.
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It's always about both. Generally speaking, you should rank higher than those you've beaten, and below those who have beaten you (there will always be exceptions, it's never that clean).

Doesn't make sense to define it at one end and leave the other end flapping. No matter how many or how few losses you have.
 
#131
#131
JohnD13 said:
You guys can have all the stats, computer rankings, etc... you want. In the end all that matters is wins and losses. With 4 loses right now we don't deserve to be ranked. If we go 9-4 then I think we deserve it and will be ranked...
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One hypothetical to prove that your rule exists to be broken, John. Say we lost to #1 Oklahoma, #2 Alabama, #3 Ole Miss, and #4 Clemson, but beat #8 Georgia, #12 Florida, and #16 Houston.

At that point, it'd be crazy not to rank us in the 5-10 range.

That's an extreme hypothetical situation, I grant you. But it proves that rules like yours beg for exceptions.

As for me? I think we're among the Top 25 teams in the country today. If the polls were truly about that, then I'd say yes, we should be ranked.
 
#132
#132
State of the Vols said:
If/when we should be ranked, wouldn't you have to put the 5-loss Hogs just slightly ahead of us? If not, why not???
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No...

Arkansas has 5 losses
1. Loss to Toledo at home by 4
2. Loss to Texas Tech at home by 11
3. Loss to Texas A&M at home by 7
4. Loss at Alabama by 13
5. Loss to Miss State at home by 1

Record of opponents loss to: 43-16/average 8.6-3.2

Tennessee has 4 losses
1.Loss to Oklahoma at home by 7
2.Loss at Florida by 1
3.Loss to Arkansas at home by 4
4.Loss at Alabama by 5

Record of opponents loss to: 39-9/average 9.75-2.25

Tennessee may have lost to Arkansas but when you weigh the losses (opponents record) Tennessee etches them out. That along with a better record should put them ahead.


Perfect example.... Georgia (even though I don't agree with it) is still ranked higher than Tennessee despite the loss to Tennessee because they have one less loss.

The average record of teams the loss to is 9.6-2.3
 
#134
#134
Sandman 423 said:
call me crazy but l don't care if we are just inside of the top 25 vs just outside of it.
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It makes a difference. In media coverage, in recruiting, in stats, and so on. There's a switch that flips on when you pass the threshold from #26 to #25, rightly or not.
 
#136
#136
air_force_vol said:
No...

Arkansas has 5 losses
1. Loss to Toledo at home by 4
2. Loss to Texas Tech at home by 11
3. Loss to Texas A&M at home by 7
4. Loss at Alabama by 13
5. Loss to Miss State at home by 1

Record of opponents loss to: 43-16/average 8.6-3.2

Tennessee has 4 losses
1.Loss to Oklahoma at home by 7
2.Loss at Florida by 1
3.Loss to Arkansas at home by 4
4.Loss at Alabama by 5

Record of opponents loss to: 39-9/average 9.75-2.25

Tennessee may have lost to Arkansas but when you weigh the losses (opponents record) Tennessee etches them out. That along with a better record should put them ahead.


Perfect example.... Georgia (even though I don't agree with it) is still ranked higher than Tennessee despite the loss to Tennessee because they have one less loss.

The average record of teams the loss to is 9.6-2.3
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So you're saying that losses are all that count? How about we compare wins? Vols won 8 games, no Top 25 (AP, end of season) wins and lost to Arkansas at home. Arky had 7 wins, including two Top 25 (AP, end of season) #17 Ole Miss and #23 LSU and beat UT (which you contend is a top 25 team) on the road.
 
#137
#137
No matter...if we had closed out UF like we should have, we would be ahead of them. If we win the bowl game, we will be ranked, ironically about where we were picked pre-season.
 
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#138
#138
chattavol420 said:
Replace the word "team" with "coach" and you'd be accurate. In those final moments the decisions make the difference
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Yep. The players have absolutely nothing to do with the outcome of games in the final moments. Its ALL about the coaching. Coaches throw INTs. Coaches fumble. Coaches miss blocks, drop passes, miss reads, mishandle snaps, get sacked, cause sacks, miss kicks and cause penalties. Yep thats it. It cannot be a mixture of player execution and coaching right? Because football isint a team sport obviously.
 
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#140
#140
State of the Vols said:
If/when we should be ranked, wouldn't you have to put the 5-loss Hogs just slightly ahead of us? If not, why not???
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Ok. Well for starters, 5 is more than 4 so Arky has more losses. Also, look who Arky has lost to and look who we have lost to. So question for you, would you also rank Memphis ahead of Ole Miss right now? If not, why not?
 
#141
#141
BigOrangeTrain said:
Ok. Well for starters, 5 is more than 4 so Arky has more losses. Also, look who Arky has lost to and look who we have lost to. So question for you, would you also rank Memphis ahead of Ole Miss right now? If not, why not?
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This isn't about Ole Miss and Memphis, it's about UT and Arky. So you're saying that losses are all that count? How about we compare wins? Vols won 8 games, no Top 25 (AP, end of season) wins and lost to Arkansas at home. Arky had 7 wins, including two Top 25 (AP, end of season) #17 Ole Miss and #23 LSU and beat UT (which some contend is a top 25 team) on the road.
 
#142
#142
State of the Vols said:
This isn't about Ole Miss and Memphis, it's about UT and Arky. So you're saying that losses are all that count? How about we compare wins? Vols won 8 games, no Top 25 (AP, end of season) wins and lost to Arkansas at home. Arky had 7 wins, including two Top 25 (AP, end of season) #17 Ole Miss and #23 LSU and beat UT (which some contend is a top 25 team) on the road.
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If Arky had only 4 losses, then they would absolutely be ahead of us. What happened to Akansas last year? They blanked a ranked OM and LSU. Does that trump the fact that all of their losses were to ranked teams? If so, why?

USC should not be ranked. Neither should UT or Arkansas. Ole Miss beat Alabama. So should Alabama be ranked ahead of OM? If so, why?

In the end, wins and losses are what matters.
 
#143
#143
State of the Vols said:
So you're saying that losses are all that count? How about we compare wins? Vols won 8 games, no Top 25 (AP, end of season) wins and lost to Arkansas at home. Arky had 7 wins, including two Top 25 (AP, end of season) #17 Ole Miss and #23 LSU and beat UT (which you contend is a top 25 team) on the road.
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No correction.... I never said Tennessee was a top 25 team. I stated that due to number of losses plus the closeness of the losses that I could see Tennessee being ranked higher than Arkansas.
 
#145
#145
VFL-82-JP said:
One hypothetical to prove that your rule exists to be broken, John. Say we lost to #1 Oklahoma, #2 Alabama, #3 Ole Miss, and #4 Clemson, but beat #8 Georgia, #12 Florida, and #16 Houston.

At that point, it'd be crazy not to rank us in the 5-10 range.

That's an extreme hypothetical situation, I grant you. But it proves that rules like yours beg for exceptions.

As for me? I think we're among the Top 25 teams in the country today. If the polls were truly about that, then I'd say yes, we should be ranked.
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JP, your scenario is undoubtedly rare, but it is not hypothetical; it has happened. In 1971, Nebraska (13-0) was selected as national champions in both major polls. Oklahoma finished 2nd in the AP and 3rd in the UPI; their only loss was a 35-31 shootout with Nebraska that remains the best college football game that I ever watched. Colorado was 3rd in the AP and 7th in the UPI; their only losses were to Oklahoma (45-17) and Nebraska (31-7). Iowa State (8-4), then coached by Johnny Majors, finished 17th in the UPI; their regular season losses were to top-ranked Nebraska (37-0), second-ranked Oklahoma (43-12) and eventual third-ranked Colorado (24-14). Alabama finished 4th in the AP, after losing to Nebraska (38-6) in the Orange Bowl, and 2nd in the UPI, all of which suggests that the UPI had not shifted to a post-bowl format for their final poll. Tennessee, incidentally, finished 9th in both polls.

In retrospect, Bobby Scott has said on at least one occasion that he regrets not having previously taken a redshirt to preserve his eligibility for the '71 season. That Tennessee team had an extraordinary defense, one that established NCAA records which still have not been broken, but struggled mightily at the quarterback position.
 
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#147
#147
GoBigOrangeUT said:
If you can find another 8-4 team in history that lost 3 of those 4 games by a combined 13 points against 2 11-1 teams and 1 10-2 team, all while holding the lead late in all of them, I'm all ears.
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That should read LOST the games after having a good lead in ALL of them.
 
#148
#148
Wylo said:
The best 4 loss team in history?


You're both high.
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Tell him why he is wrong. Meaning cite examples of other 4 loss teams in the history of college football or better yet just do us all a favor and stop hitting 'submit reply'.
 
#149
#149
State of the Vols said:
So you're saying that losses are all that count? How about we compare wins? Vols won 8 games, no Top 25 (AP, end of season) wins and lost to Arkansas at home. Arky had 7 wins, including two Top 25 (AP, end of season) #17 Ole Miss and #23 LSU and beat UT (which you contend is a top 25 team) on the road.
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Kinda hard to be the best 4 loss team in college football when they lost 5 games. Dumb argument per usual. Way to not disappoint.
 
#150
#150
Volosaurus rex said:
JP, your scenario is undoubtedly rare, but it is not hypothetical; it has happened. In 1971, Nebraska (13-0) was selected as national champions in both major polls. Oklahoma finished 2nd in the AP and 3rd in the UPI; their only loss was a 35-31 shootout with Nebraska that remains the best college football game that I ever watched. Colorado was 3rd in the AP and 7th in the UPI; their only losses were to Oklahoma (45-17) and Nebraska (31-7). Iowa State (8-4), then coached by Johnny Majors, finished 17th in the UPI; their regular season losses were to top-ranked Nebraska (37-0), second-ranked Oklahoma (43-12) and eventual third-ranked Colorado (24-14). Alabama finished 4th in the AP, after losing to Nebraska (38-6) in the Orange Bowl, and 2nd in the UPI, all of which suggests that the UPI had not shifted to a post-bowl format for their final poll. Tennessee, incidentally, finished 9th in both polls.

In retrospect, Bobby Scott has said on at least one occasion that he regrets not having previously taken a redshirt to preserve his eligibility for the '71 season. That Tennessee team had an extraordinary defense, one that established NCAA records which still have not been broken, but struggled mightily at the quarterback position.
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Awesome, Rex, just awesome. Thanks very much, I had no idea my made-up scenario even came close to resembling any real-life events. :good!:
 
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