Ukraine Protests

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#10,201
#10,201
CSpindizzy said:
It's not even the same thing. It's pure numbers game and you are losing. There are mass numbers coming in from Russia. You show me a handful from Croatia and one retired old guy from the US on Ukraine's side. I show you an infectious mindset that is actually guiding not just the soldiers of this movement but the leaders themselves as well. You give me some guy who likes the strong grip Nazis had in government. Sheer numbers and reach alone just mute your whole Kyiv fascist argument you and Ras dance around for.

Laying it out for you again....what's your politics? Are you a fan of fascism?
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No I'm not a fan of fascism. And how have you shown this infectious mindset that has gripped the whole of Russia, including it's leaders?

If there is a fascist regime in today's world, it's here in the US.
 
#10,202
#10,202
Burhead said:
What your opinion on something. I know you support arming Ukraine, do you support American weapons being sent to the volunteer battalions (since they are the most effective units right now) or only being in the hands of the Armed Forces?
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Tough question. I think it would depend on the reliability of the volunteer battalions in question. It can bite us in the behind if they tuck tail and run, dropping all sorts of US equipment along the way.

If the Ukrainians have any kind of a shot at reclaiming the eastern portions of the country, they have to have the fighting forces in some kind of order. I'd say those volunteer battalions would need some significant training behind the lines with their new equipment, but also in tactics, communications, logistics and standards. I'd say let the regulars have the stuff (with US monitoring) to keep the pressure on the rebels while the volunteer groups got their just in time training and an accelerated course in how to be a soldier. Then send them in the line, refit and rest the best troops and go all out.

I wouldn't be opposed to giving the volunteer groups like the Azov Battalion the goods, but just making sure they use it correctly and don't end up feeding it to the rebels.
 
#10,203
#10,203
Burhead said:
What your opinion on something. I know you support arming Ukraine, do you support American weapons being sent to the volunteer battalions (since they are the most effective units right now) or only being in the hands of the Armed Forces?
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At this point most of the volunteer battalions have the careerists from the regular army. Some of the ones released from being POW's that do go back to the front go to the vol. battalions.

Part of the issue with the regular army is that most of qualified leadership was stacked with ethnic Russians thanks to Yanukovich. When he left most of them left or were fired because of trust. Those left were green or paper pushers. Not much confidence in the leadership. This is part of the reason the US and other nations are not keen on sending lethal support. They can either dump it on the incompetent OR send it to units they have little pull or sway in and have an image of being right to far right. I am not sure why some of those oligarchs have not bankrolled their own armies straight up Roman Empire style.
 
#10,204
#10,204
CSpindizzy said:
I am not sure why some of those oligarchs have not bankrolled their own armies straight up Roman Empire style.
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What are the laws over there (if any) on armed PMCs operating within the Ukraine?

I tried looking it up and didn't find a whole lot.
 
#10,205
#10,205
Grand Vol said:
What are the laws over there (if any) on armed PMCs operating within the Ukraine?

I tried looking it up and didn't find a whole lot.
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I know some do, I think the first group formed (Donbass Battalion) was bankrolled by a pro-Ukrainian billionaire.
 
#10,206
#10,206
Grand Vol said:
What are the laws over there (if any) on armed PMCs operating within the Ukraine?

I tried looking it up and didn't find a whole lot.
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Technically these volunteer battalions are this way. My question is full arming and training as well. Much of what these battalions have now is captured or what was given to them by the government. I am just surprised one of these billionaires have not bought full equipment for the units as well.

As far as laws, they are changing quickly. I am not sure of current laws. I've asked a friend that is a clerk in the Rada and have not heard back.
 
#10,207
#10,207
CSpindizzy said:
Technically these volunteer battalions are this way. My question is full arming and training as well. Much of what these battalions have now is captured or what was given to them by the government. I am just surprised one of these billionaires have not bought full equipment for the units as well.

As far as laws, they are changing quickly. I am not sure of current laws. I've asked a friend that is a clerk in the Rada and have not heard back.
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The last I heard they were all rolled into the National Guard but I could be mistaken.
 
#10,208
#10,208
Velo Vol said:
That's what you suggested.
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It was based on a theory I read a while back. I've stated before that I don't necessarily buy into it because, like volprof said, Putin is one of the financial elite. But Putin's actions on the financial front have been threatening in nature (ie BRICS Bank, alternative SWIFT system, bilateral trade deals etc).
 
#10,209
#10,209
CSpindizzy said:
Technically these volunteer battalions are this way. My question is full arming and training as well. Much of what these battalions have now is captured or what was given to them by the government. I am just surprised one of these billionaires have not bought full equipment for the units as well.

As far as laws, they are changing quickly. I am not sure of current laws. I've asked a friend that is a clerk in the Rada and have not heard back.
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I was meaning along the lines of foreign (to them) outfits like Triple Canopy, Dyncorp and Armor Group.
 
#10,210
#10,210
CSpindizzy said:
I am just surprised one of these billionaires have not bought full equipment for the units as well.
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That last Vice video suggested the owner of the Mariupol steel mill had sided with the Ukrainian government as a means of protecting his investment.

Of course, defending Mariupol is not a cheap proposition.
 
#10,211
#10,211
Grand Vol said:
I was meaning along the lines of foreign (to them) outfits like Triple Canopy, Dyncorp and Armor Group.
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Gotcha. I guess Ukraine has really tried hard to play by the rules and look on the up and up in an effort to win over support. The other side clearly does not care and plays dirty. A lot of analysts are saying this could be to Ukraine's detriment. Ukraine's tried to show as close to a unified and national military force composed of volunteers from within their borders. That didn't work so they went the conscription route. I'm not sure they go too much further. Putin's next move may change that for them.
 
#10,212
#10,212
Velo Vol said:
That last Vice video suggested the owner of the Mariupol steel mill had sided with the Ukrainian government as a means of protecting his investment.

Of course, defending Mariupol is not a cheap proposition.
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Rinat Akhmetov, who was chummy with Yanukovich, declared his allegiance to Ukraine. He's publicly backed up that allegiance but part of me wonders if as a businessman he is not already offering payoffs or something to the DNR "just in case".
 
#10,213
#10,213
Well since the American media is not taking up the whole "where is Vlad?" story I guess the whole regime change fostered by the CIA knocking off Nemtsov is not working. The MSM really must not care about Putin and Russia after all.
 
#10,214
#10,214
CSpindizzy said:
Rinat Akhmetov, who was chummy with Yanukovich, declared his allegiance to Ukraine. He's publicly backed up that allegiance but part of me wonders if as a businessman he is not already offering payoffs or something to the DNR "just in case".
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That's who it is.

You know stuff. Don't let Pacer92 tell you otherwise.

Speaking of whom, since he hasn't given us any inside scoops on the funny happenings, we'll just have to speculate.

The Sick Man Of Moscow

Whether Putin is sick, or "is feeling fine," as his spokesman Dmitry Peskov insists, the system he presides over is far from healthy. Even if Putin the man is in top form, the "collective Putin," Russia's informal ruling circle, is showing signs of deep distress.
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#10,215
#10,215
I'm sure some pics will surface in a day or so showing that Putin got bored of politics and went out into the wilderness bare chested to fight bears.
 
#10,216
#10,216
Pacer92 said:
No I'm not a fan of fascism. And how have you shown this infectious mindset that has gripped the whole of Russia, including it's leaders?

If there is a fascist regime in today's world, it's here in the US.
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Fascism | Define Fascism at Dictionary.com

(sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
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Fascism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
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fascism - definition of fascism by The Free Dictionary

1. often Fascism
a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
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we have been over this. the US is not fascist. come back with a better term. Obama is not a dictator and is widely hated. Racism the government is not really pushing this(no laws have come out relegating a race to a lesser role do to their race), and Nationalism you yourself have hammered that the US is pushing a globalization and trying to get rid of our nationalism.

Russia on the other hand. Putin is definitely a dictator looking to expand his power, look at the absolute confusion going on over there right now for proof of this. Racism, Russia is pushing ethnic Russian vs other ethnic groups in other countries (save the ethnic Russians from the Ukrainians, save the ethnic Russians from evil Estonia/Latvia/etc). Bigotry is also a factor, see the law on the LGBT and crippled. Nationalism, if you don't see the rise of this in Russia and how their policies are directly influencing an marked increase in nationalism you are blind.
 
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#10,224
#10,224
agent|orange said:
I guess, due to the economic downturn, their weekly salary is now on an IOU basis.

So they are capitalists after all.
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I haven't even made that connection yet. Good work!

Now that you mention it, I've noticed a weakening of pro-Russian action across the Internet. Even RT, while still overwhelmingly pro-Russian in its forums, is getting soft. Since the last 2 to 3 months it seems like.
 
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