Ukraine Protests

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#9,326
#9,326
Rasputin_Vol said:
I have acknowledged that the west was involved in election tampering in 2004 just as much as I've complained about 2013/2014. We also have you openly admitting being involved in 2004. Nobody in this thread at this point is ignoring the US involvment in 2004.
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The one thing that always just confuses me...

If the US is allegedly strong enough to tamper with and rig elections in so many other countries, why didn't we try to tamper with the ones in Russia? I mean, why go to all the trouble of surrounding the "beast" when all it would take is picking a candidate in Russia that's US friendly and lobbing money at his campaign? And making sure he/she was elected.

Wouldn't that make way more sense?
 
#9,327
#9,327
CSpindizzy said:
And for resident conspiracy theorist to just lay off one so juicy as this one? You're slipping and letting your bias show. I guess out of all the regimes, administrations, etc. in the world only the US gets your ire.
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No, I'm just not ready to believe the MSM or White House story because I know that they have a long and recent history of lying in order to advance their agenda.
 
#9,328
#9,328
Grand Vol said:
The one thing that always just confuses me...

If the US is allegedly strong enough to tamper with and rig elections in so many other countries, why didn't we try to tamper with the ones in Russia?
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The Ukraine was a trial run. This Nemtsov assassination is another step in that direction... why Putin would want to create a martyr in Red Square is beyond me, but if you all believe it...
 
#9,329
#9,329
Rasputin_Vol said:
The Ukraine was a trial run. This Nemtsov assassination is another step in that direction... why Putin would want to create a martyr in Red Square is beyond me, but if you all believe it...
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Perhaps Putin didn't order it but let's not act like the FSB wasn't in a position to intervene. Nemtsov was under 24/7 human surveillance, the guys watching him could have easily stopped the assassination.
 
#9,330
#9,330
Rasputin_Vol said:
The Ukraine was a trial run. This Nemtsov assassination is another step in that direction... why Putin would want to create a martyr in Red Square is beyond me, but if you all believe it...
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Right...

Which time was it a trial run? I mean, you think we tamper with elections all the time so why the "trial run" in the Ukraine? Why not go after Russia and put in a EU and US friendly President from the start? Avoid all this other nonsense.

Or is it just that your theory really just sucks that bad?
 
#9,331
#9,331
Rasputin_Vol said:
No, I'm just not ready to believe the MSM or White House story because I know that they have a long and recent history of lying in order to advance their agenda.
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But you still believe the Russian/Putin story because they've never lied right? And any non-Russian media source is automatically linked to your MSM global cabal?
 
#9,332
#9,332
Grand Vol said:
Right...

Which time was it a trial run? I mean, you think we tamper with elections all the time so why the "trial run" in the Ukraine? Why not go after Russia and put in a EU and US friendly President from the start? Avoid all this other nonsense.

Or is it just that your theory really just sucks that bad?
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Or maybe Russia is just a tougher nut to crack? Lets not prtend Russia is some 3rd world banan republic like Chile in the 1970s or Guatemala. Russia has their own intelligence gathering agencies that could sniff out possible plots. It would be more difficult to pull of, but not impossible.
 
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#9,333
#9,333
It's pretty ironic that the USAtoday devotes it's first two pages to the Nemtsov death. The convicting of Putin has already started before any evidence is out. Eerily similar to MH17.

-Many of Nemtsov's supporters who gathered on Moskvoretsky bridge on Saturday blamed the assassination of the outspoken politician on the Kremlin, saying they feared the climate of fear in the country would get worse.
"It's a move toward a new level of repression," Kachayev said. "The regime has turned to political killings."

Whoever did this wanted a media storm. I highly doubt that would've been Putin..
 
#9,334
#9,334
Rasputin_Vol said:
The Ukraine was a trial run. This Nemtsov assassination is another step in that direction... why Putin would want to create a martyr in Red Square is beyond me, but if you all believe it...
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Ask Magnitsy, Berezovsky, Sobchak, Litvinenko, etc. who are all dead. Ask Khodorkovsky who got thrown out of the country. Ask Navalny who is in jail. Seeing a trail of death and discredited people, I'd say Putin doesn't really care whether they are martyrs or not. Seeing the lengths he's already gone he'd rather deal with a chance of martyrdom. If the threat is dead, he controls the media and the message behind it. Seeing the media now completely trashing Nemtsov, any notion of him being a martyr is out the door. Right now, there is no political threat to Putin. None. Kasparov is it and him being outside the country and already discredited himself, he stands no chance. The Communist Party is the only organized political threat and that's a joke.

Ukraine was a trial run...for Putin. He won that one. Nemtsov was the next test and as of now, he appears to be unscathed with that as well. Freedom, liberty, and anything representing democratic principles is done for in Russia. Your fascist paradise awaits you.
 
#9,335
#9,335
Pacer92 said:
It's pretty ironic that the USAtoday devotes it's first two pages to the Nemtsov death. The convicting of Putin has already started before any evidence is out. Eerily similar to MH17.

-Many of Nemtsov's supporters who gathered on Moskvoretsky bridge on Saturday blamed the assassination of the outspoken politician on the Kremlin, saying they feared the climate of fear in the country would get worse.
"It's a move toward a new level of repression," Kachayev said. "The regime has turned to political killings."

Whoever did this wanted a media storm. I highly doubt that would've been Putin..
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The Putin regime has always used political killings since coming to power and even before coming to power.
 
#9,336
#9,336
CSpindizzy said:
But you still believe the Russian/Putin story because they've never lied right? And any non-Russian media source is automatically linked to your MSM global cabal?
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Just because I said clearly I don't believe the US version, does that automatically mean I buy the Russian version?

Or is there the possibilty that I (nor you or most people in here) have no idea what actually happened?
 
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#9,337
#9,337
Appears that Nemtsov had ties and received support from the National Endowment for Democracy. Nothing fishy about that I suppose.
 
#9,338
#9,338
Rasputin_Vol said:
Just because I said clearly I don't believe the US version, does that automatically mean I buy the Russian version?

Or is there the possibilty that I (nor you or most people in here) have no idea what actually happened?
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When your counter to everything is straight from Russian media? And you honestly think everything that I or any other poster has stated is automatically wrong? You have yet to give any sort of indication that anything other that the Russian viewpoint could be right. When all you say is the Russian version, it's a little difficult to think you believe anything else. Add to the fact your rebuttals are either flat out lies OR off base rumors with no facts to back them up...your accusations against me for example. Election fixing. Coups. Etc.
 
#9,339
#9,339
CSpindizzy said:
When your counter to everything is straight from Russian media? And you honestly think everything that I or any other poster has stated is automatically wrong? You have yet to give any sort of indication that anything other that the Russian viewpoint could be right. When all you say is the Russian version, it's a little difficult to think you believe anything else. Add to the fact your rebuttals are either flat out lies OR off base rumors with no facts to back them up...your accusations against me for example. Election fixing. Coups. Etc.
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All you quote and spew is the White House version. Quit being a hypocrit!
 
#9,340
#9,340
Rasputin_Vol said:
Appears that Nemtsov had ties and received support from the National Endowment for Democracy. Nothing fishy about that I suppose.
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Regurgitating Global Research nonsense again I see. Between them and Pravda (Putin's newspaper) this is their angle on this. What if he did? Should we compare a trail of dead bodies for Putin versus Nemtsov and a claimed tie to NED. Do you have any proof of this tie? There may be something but I'd like something beyond "Mom's basement tinfoil hat club" rumors on the web. Try to also omit the anti-Semitic groups that tend to perpetuate these myths as well.
 
#9,341
#9,341
Pacer92 said:
All you quote and spew is the White House version. Quit being a hypocrit!
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I haven't seen the White House version. Can you tell me what that is? And can you link where I sourced the White House in anything I've said? Anything I've said is based on Putin's history of killing and jailing anyone who stands in his way whether actual or in his mind. I've looked at his own statements, record, policies, and his own media's release of footage and info. Unless the White House is behind all of these killings and jailings as well as tampering with Kremlin security footage...I've even questioned how top notch security right on Putin's doorstep could let this happen. Being in Russia many times since 1989 may not make me an expert but I've been around and seen enough history to come up with my own conclusions. You and Ras on the other hand seem to be behind computers in America just repeating what Putin's media crafts for the world to see.
 
#9,342
#9,342
CSpindizzy said:
Regurgitating Global Research nonsense again I see. Between them and Pravda (Putin's newspaper) this is their angle on this. What if he did? Should we compare a trail of dead bodies for Putin versus Nemtsov and a claimed tie to NED. Do you have any proof of this tie? There may be something but I'd like something beyond "Mom's basement tinfoil hat club" rumors on the web. Try to also omit the anti-Semitic groups that tend to perpetuate these myths as well.
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If Satan himself said 2+2 was 4, does it make it less true?
 
#9,343
#9,343
CSpindizzy said:
You and Ras on the other hand seem to be behind computers in America just repeating what Putin's media crafts for the world to see.
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All I have done is live in the US since 1973 and I am intimately familiar with our media and govt here. That doesn't make me an expert, but it does teach me to be cynical of anything the media says and try to wait for the facts to come out or automatically assume we are the good guys or "they" are the bad guys.
 
#9,344
#9,344
Rasputin_Vol said:
If Satan himself said 2+2 was 4, does it make it less true?
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I've yet to see truth come from you...even when I plainly ask for sources and substance. What Satan says has nothing to do with your wild claims and either nothing backing it up OR discredited sources "backing it up". You make a claim. I ask you to back it up. I even say it may be true and you go off about Satan. Even if Nemtsov had some connection to NED, what does that have to do with the body count at Putin's feet of any and all opposition? Was he just needing the NED scalp to complete his collection?
 
#9,345
#9,345
Rasputin_Vol said:
All I have done is live in the US since 1973 and I am intimately familiar with our media and govt here. That doesn't make me an expert, but it does teach me to be cynical of anything the media says and try to wait for the facts to come out or automatically assume we are the good guys or "they" are the bad guys.
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But yet you still use media to back your claim up. You cry about media and its bias but use it to back your argument up. I hate to break it to you pal, but Russian media is no better than American media. To somehow remove yourself from the US media does not put you in some bubble of truth and righteousness. Media in the firm hand of a single source in Russia rather than some alleged cabal here in the US is not any better. The fact you claim your distrust of media but leave it just within the US calls into question your own bias and hatred more toward the US side than anyone else. Wait for the facts to come out? Please. Your coup angle has no facts. What you keep claiming has no facts. US fixing the election in Ukraine? There is more evidence of Russian involvement in Ukrainian politics but your moral standard says nothing against them. Please lay off this righteous indignation defending a standard you apply here and there and flat out omit those with even more blood on their hands.
 
#9,347
#9,347
CSpindizzy said:
Regurgitating Global Research nonsense again I see. Between them and Pravda (Putin's newspaper) this is their angle on this. What if he did? Should we compare a trail of dead bodies for Putin versus Nemtsov and a claimed tie to NED. Do you have any proof of this tie? There may be something but I'd like something beyond "Mom's basement tinfoil hat club" rumors on the web. Try to also omit the anti-Semitic groups that tend to perpetuate these myths as well.
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Neo-fascists need their Global Research. Gives them a semblance of "credibility." I guess.
 
#9,350
#9,350
Pacer92 said:
Nemtsov Murder: Anti-Putin False Flag! - English pravda.ru
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Just curious...how does a retired small businessman have any credibility? This guy cheers on left wing progressive causes and defends Assad, Palestinians, and has a tinge of anti-Semitism in his writings. If my expertise and credibility is questioned I will call his out. And in Pravda? His article goes side by side with their articles on alien conspiracies.
 
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