Ukraine Protests

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#6,801
#6,801
Grand Vol said:
If you would take off your hammer and sickle glasses long enough to see nobody was trying to encircle Russia...

Obama has lied about plenty in the past. Why all of the sudden should I take him at his word for it?
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So if our president lies and can't be taken for his word, his administration and the word they dictate to MSM can be?

This is illogical..
 
#6,802
#6,802
Rasputin_Vol said:
Did you even hear what he said? He clearly stated that Yanukovich fled AFTER the US and the Ukrainian opposition had brokered a deal, meaning that they had alread decided who was going to be running the country while Yanukovich was still in power.

And Obama said nothing about a "peaceful transition of power" like that gibroni volprof said.
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Let's talk about that peaceful transition of power. A German news program had a special that indicated the gunshots that killed several protesters during Maiden came from the protest HQs. In fact, all the gunshots came from that building.

The hypocrisy of it all is when Jen Psaki said the new government was showing "great restraint" when dozens of people were being burned alive in government buildings for peacefully protesting the new government.
 
#6,804
#6,804
Grand Vol said:
About as logical as taking him at his word because it fits your agenda.
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I don't have an agenda. In fact I can support a coup, proxy war, or even total war. I've even participated in a couple. I just want to understand the why. And as long as people have their head in the sand, the 'why' will elude us.
 
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#6,805
#6,805
Rasputin_Vol said:
OK, lets run with the idea that brokering a deal can mean a lot of different things... fine.

If you are going to broker a deal like this, where the discussion is about establishing a new govt while the present govt is still in power, think about how long that would take? Think about the amount of trust you would have to have in the guys on the other side of the table. If you are the Crimea opposition, you would have had to built up enough of a relationship over a significant amount of time that you can trust Russia as you essentially make seditious plans in the Ukraine... essentially putting your life in their hands. Likewise, if you are Russia, you would have to build an equal amount trust with the Crimean opposition in order for your plans to not reach Kiev and create an international firestorm.

So this wasn't something that could have been scratched out on bar napkins over a few glasses of beer. There had to be a significant amount of planning involved with this.

Would you at least agree with this assumption?
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fyp
 
#6,806
#6,806
Pacer92 said:
If you would take off the red, white and blue glasses long enough you will see that evidence points directly at Russian interference.

Even the Kremlin admitting as much is not enough for some of you guys....what's it going to take?
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while i am 'fyping' i might as well continue. this applies to the rebels in Donbas not Maidan, hopefully that is clear.
 
#6,809
#6,809
Apparently the above link had the story slightly wrong. Updated:

The new law will prohibit the broadcast of 'films made by Russian individuals and entitles which promote the Russian armed forces and security services.'
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Kerry press conference in Kyiv currently in progress. Sounds like more of the same.
 
#6,813
#6,813
Rasputin_Vol said:
Poroschenko is on the clock, imo. There are already stories of Ukrainians ignoring draft notices and not wanting to fight. Their already weak economy has been diminished even more in the last 8 months. I'm not sure he will survive another 12 months without either the people of Ukraine pushing him out or the western corporate interests getting upset and impatient with his progress in the east.
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This may be his last push to get the eastern rebels under control before he gets replaced or ousted. The Ukrainian people is general dont have the same zeal for this conflict as those in the east have of just getting away from Kiev.
 
#6,814
#6,814
Rasputin_Vol said:
This may be his last push to get the eastern rebels under control before he gets replaced or ousted. The Ukrainian people is general dont have the same zeal for this conflict as those in the east have of just getting away from Kiev.
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If I were a Ukrainian I wouldn't want to be drafted by the regular army either. Too many Russian sympathizers still. I'd join one of the volunteer battalions before I got my draft notice, that's why they are so effective and recruits are pouring in.

Pacer92 said:
I'm sensing Poroschenko will declare martial law in the next few days. Jmo
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Should have declared martial law last spring.
 
#6,816
#6,816
LouderVol said:
Agreed, I also think his days are numbered.
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Based upon what?

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#6,817
#6,817
Velo Vol said:
Based upon what?

B9GTTndIcAEfeli.png
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This is one issue I agree with Ras on. If Petro doesn't get serious about the war-effort the volunteer battalions will turn their guns on him. He hasn't been serious about the war since he took office. He still calls it an anti-terror operation when in fact it's the Russo-Ukrainian War. He hasn't declared martial law, has issued a full scale mobilization, he seems content to let Ukraine slip into the abyss.
 
#6,818
#6,818
Velo Vol said:
Based upon what?

B9GTTndIcAEfeli.png
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How badly the conflict is going, and how he continues to chop heads on his staff. seems the act of a desperate man. nothing is working out for him, at some point if he wants to stick around he needs a political 'win' and i don't see one coming.
 
#6,819
#6,819
Burhead said:
If Petro doesn't get serious about the war-effort the volunteer battalions will turn their guns on him. He hasn't been serious about the war since he took office.
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I agree he isn't going all-out fighting the war. Not sure how that translates into domestic support, though. He appears to maintain support from other countries.

Interesting.

Hagel concerned about possible split in NATO

Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said Thursday he is worried about a potential division within NATO as countries in the north want to focus on the growing threat from Russia, while other alliance members in the south are more worried about the influx of foreign fighters from northern Africa.
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#6,820
#6,820
Velo Vol said:
I agree he isn't going all-out fighting the war. Not sure how that translates into domestic support, though. He appears to maintain support from other countries.

Interesting.

Hagel concerned about possible split in NATO
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this is part of the reason i think NATO has grown too large, not from the RT side of things where we are taking over the world or oppressing Russia. but the, we are too large and have too many interests and distinct outside threats, NATO from the start was a very focused organization with a clear goal, once that goal went away and we grew beyond the merit of the original purpose NATO lost its coherency which was one of its greatest strengths.
 
#6,821
#6,821
@20committee 31m31 minutes ago

Nearly 100% of NATO officials I know expect direct Russian challenge to Article 5, prob in Baltics, soon. Many expect Alliance to crumble.
 
#6,823
#6,823
Why is it that I fear we're witnessing a modern day Munich agreement with Hollande and Merkel playing the role of Chamberlain?
 
#6,824
#6,824
Burhead said:
Why is it that I fear we're witnessing a modern day Munich agreement with Hollande and Merkel playing the role of Chamberlain?
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Because American leadership is weak and the Europeans have been softened by two generations (at least) of socialism and being told that America is the real enemy of the civilized world.
 
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