Ukraine Protests

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#5,576
#5,576
Velo Vol said:
If we're straying into hypotheticals, the U.S. would have attacked from the south (which they did) or east.

At any rate, it was the Russians who defeated Germany.
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in this hypothetical, if Britain was removed the Germans would have had complete control of the Mediterranean and could have just sat on the straight of Gibraltar and we couldn't have done much.
 
#5,577
#5,577
Pacer92 said:
So here's a question.....without complete air superiority, Germany's lack of fuel and resources and them fighting only on the western front, would the invasion of Normandy been a success?? I don't think it would have been. Jmo
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Germany would have decimated the allied army with out a doubt. So many dumb decisions came from Hitler and his fan boys. Sacrificed their air force to bomb GB which really had no impact on GB's fighting force. Honestly, it's just crazy to think about all that they could have accomplished as a fighting force.
 
#5,578
#5,578
Velo Vol said:
If we're straying into hypotheticals, the U.S. would have attacked from the south (which they did) or east.

At any rate, it was the Russians who defeated Germany.
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I would love to go to the killing fields of western Russia and do some metal detecting. Can't imagine being thrown into that inferno.

Russia did in fact drain all that the Germans could give them. Which makes sense for the allies to wait until they knew it would be impossible for Germany to wage two fronts. I only have a problem with the fact that we never attempted to liberate the millions being murdered In concentration camps.
 
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#5,579
#5,579
#VFL__ said:
Germany would have decimated the allied army with out a doubt. So many dumb decisions came from Hitler and his fan boys. Sacrificed their air force to bomb GB which really had no impact on GB's fighting force. Honestly, it's just crazy to think about all that they could have accomplished as a fighting force.
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I really wish i could have been a fly on the wall to hear why Hitler suddenly got 'Russian Fever' and abandoned his plan for GB.
 
#5,580
#5,580
LouderVol said:
I really wish i could have been a fly on the wall to hear why Hitler suddenly got 'Russian Fever' and abandoned his plan for GB.
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And as a solider that fought in WW1, he should have known better. Just simply felt untouchable I would imagine and quite frankly, they were at times.
 
#5,581
#5,581
#VFL__ said:
I would love to go to the killing fields of western Russia and do some metal detecting. Can't imagine being thrown into that inferno.

Russia did in fact drain all that the Germans could give them. Which makes sense for the allies to wait until they knew it would be impossible for Germany to wage two fronts. I only have a problem with the fact that we never attempted to liberate the millions being murdered In concentration camps.
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i have never heard about us knowing about them until it was too late. Russians found them pretty much the same time we did.
 
#5,582
#5,582
#VFL__ said:
Germany would have decimated the allied army with out a doubt. So many dumb decisions came from Hitler and his fan boys. Sacrificed their air force to bomb GB which really had no impact on GB's fighting force. Honestly, it's just crazy to think about all that they could have accomplished as a fighting force.
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Totally agree! Hitler was delusional and made stupid decision after stupid decision against his generals advice. Implementing operation Barbarossa was the beginning of the end. Had he not, the third reich might still be in rule.
 
#5,583
#5,583
LouderVol said:
i have never heard about us knowing about them until it was too late. Russians found them pretty much the same time we did.
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The Catholic Church had documents smuggled by a nun from early in the war but never made them public knowledge if I remember correctly. They were very involved with the nazis at that time however. I think with the mass exodus of Jews prior to 1940 we knew something was going on.
 
#5,584
#5,584
Pacer92 said:
Totally agree! Hitler was delusional and made stupid decision after stupid decision against his generals advice. Implementing operation Barbarossa was the beginning of the end. Had he not, the third reich might still be in rule.
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there would be a lot more Heidi Klums walking around, sounds like a great place to me. whats funny another one of his incredibly dumb decisions was declaring war on US, in some of his earlier notes he made it clear he did not want war with US.
 
#5,585
#5,585
Pacer92 said:
Totally agree! Hitler was delusional and made stupid decision after stupid decision against his generals advice. Implementing operation Barbarossa was the beginning of the end. Had he not, the third reich might still be in rule.
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They would be, it would have bought them time to develop the first nuclear bomb. They always say that It was just a move to beat the Russians to the punch but who really knows. Stalin and hitler should have been best friends in my eyes. They could have killed everyone they wanted and still have plenty of land to go around.
 
#5,586
#5,586
#VFL__ said:
They would be, it would have bought them time to develop the first nuclear bomb. They always say that It was just a move to beat the Russians to the punch but who really knows. Stalin and hitler should have been best friends in my eyes. They could have killed everyone they wanted and still have plenty of land to go around.
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Hitler wanted the Ukrainian/western Russia wheat fields for the master race's growth.
 
#5,587
#5,587
#VFL__ said:
The Catholic Church had documents smuggled by a nun from early in the war but never made them public knowledge if I remember correctly. They were very involved with the nazis at that time however. I think with the mass exodus of Jews prior to 1940 we knew something was going on.
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oh yeah we knew he was imprisoning them, but I don't think we knew/fully appreciated the "Final Solution" and the Catholics did try smuggling them out, but there is little they could do once caught.
 
#5,588
#5,588
volprof said:
Hitler wanted the Ukrainian/western Russia wheat fields for the master race's growth.
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and oil in the Caucasuses

also there was a very strong anti-Russian/Moscow population in western Russia. The cossaks welcomed the Germans with open arms.
 
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#5,589
#5,589
volprof said:
Hitler wanted the Ukrainian/western Russia wheat fields for the master race's growth.
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I'm aware of his desires but they could have been mutual partners had he known that his desires would end with the rape and pillaging of his entire country.
 
#5,592
#5,592
#VFL__ said:
I'm aware of his desires but they could have been mutual partners had he known that his desires would end with the rape and pillaging of his entire country.
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What you're asking, indirectly, is whether or not state fascism and communism could have existed, quite literally, side-by-side. And with cooperation.

I don't know. Molotov-Ribbentrop suggests it had some potential. But, then again, Barbarossa suggests any kind of cooperation may have been a hollow shell that was bound to bust eventually.
 
#5,593
#5,593
volprof said:
What you're asking, indirectly, is whether or not state fascism and communism could have existed, quite literally, side-by-side. And with cooperation.

I don't know. Molotov-Ribbentrop suggests it had some potential. But, then again, Barbarossa suggests any kind of cooperation may have been a hollow shell that was bound to bust eventually.
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Russia and Germany were fighting dozens of proxy wars before they started fighting each other, the biggest one might have been control of Spain.
 
#5,594
#5,594
To expand upon my previous post, I'd say that philosophically, the two cannot, regardless of the political differences.

Reasons I say this:

1. State fascism requires constant warfare (philosophically). The state and the people are renewed by continuous vigor, movement, force, and power. Counter to a stationary state that could exist peacefully with another, especially one so politically at odds.

2. Communism requires constant expansion as well (philosophically). At least in its traditional Marxist-Leninist sense, which is internationalist. Stalin, however, was not exactly an internationalist in the sense of "liberating other peoples so that they can determine their own destiny, which can naturally only be communism." He was just a flat-out expansionist.

So, in short, I'm not so sure the two could have coexisted philosophically even.
 
#5,595
#5,595
volprof said:
To expand upon my previous post, I'd say that philosophically, the two cannot, regardless of the political differences.

Reasons I say this:

1. State fascism requires constant warfare (philosophically). The state and the people are renewed by continuous vigor, movement, force, and power. Counter to a stationary state that could exist peacefully with another, especially one so politically at odds.

2. Communism requires constant expansion as well (philosophically). At least in its traditional Marxist-Leninist sense, which is internationalist. Stalin, however, was not exactly an internationalist in the sense of "liberating other peoples so that they can determine their own destiny, which can naturally only be communism." He was just a flat-out expansionist.

So, in short, I'm not so sure the two could have coexisted philosophically even.
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I would think any successful system of government could fall under those broad definitions. its hard for a government to justify themselves without a threat or purpose.
 
#5,596
#5,596
volprof said:
To expand upon my previous post, I'd say that philosophically, the two cannot, regardless of the political differences.

Reasons I say this:

1. State fascism requires constant warfare (philosophically). The state and the people are renewed by continuous vigor, movement, force, and power. Counter to a stationary state that could exist peacefully with another, especially one so politically at odds.

2. Communism requires constant expansion as well (philosophically). At least in its traditional Marxist-Leninist sense, which is internationalist. Stalin, however, was not exactly an internationalist in the sense of "liberating other peoples so that they can determine their own destiny, which can naturally only be communism." He was just a flat-out expansionist.

So, in short, I'm not so sure the two could have coexisted philosophically even.
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Yeah I wasn't really trying to get into the philosophical side of things. To me, they were two murders that used anything at their disposal to keep control. So in hindsight, hitler may have just agreed to deal with the fact that he wouldn't be the only murder on the block and that total global domination was pointless. I think he envisioned Germany to be the next GB. Except GB expanded their empire at a time when there was relatively little technology to resist their conquests. Communism and fascism are just ideas to me and can never really be used to describe what both of those men tried to do.
 
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#5,600
#5,600
Pacer92 said:
Russia warns US against supplying ?lethal defensive aid? to Ukraine ? RT News
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http://eeas.europa.eu/statements/docs/2014/140417_01_en.pdf

uhm, violating what? the declaration, and I have no idea how binding that is as there are zero signatures on it, mentions nothing about providing arms. And Russia has admitted that weapons are making there way into the rebels hands through Russia. and the way our government works 116 million dollars is probably a case of m16s and a thousand rounds. laughably small amount of money.
 
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