Ukraine Protests

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so even though Russia had maintained control of the port even while part of Ukraine, they had to go ahead and annex the whole region over to Russia to give them port?(was there talk of removing the port from Russian control? (begins with an S doesn't it?)) then Russia has had this stance then for all of what a year? seems like russia would have had this problem since the collapse of the USSR and somehow they have been dealing with it.

97% of Crimeans voted to become a part of the Russian federation.....those numbers don't lie! Do you think the US would allow the Russians to invest 5 billion dollars to sponsor the overthrow of the Puerto Rican govt and be okay with Russian ships and nuclear subs to be all around its coast?? Seriously, there is no difference.

And this isn't Ukraines or Russia's first rodeo with this kind of attempt. Look up the Orange revolution or the Georgian war of a few years back. Russia is constantly under attack.
 
Due to the expansion of NATO, Russia has been concerned that Ukraine would also join which would make the port a NATO base. Since Russia saw the overthrow of Yanukovich as a western-backed plot, they were acting in their own interest in annexing Crimea. Having said that, Putin was certainly playing hardball with Yanukovich to get him to decline the EU proposal.

I know NATO had been talking to Ukraine about joining for a while, probably started soon after the USSR dissolved, but my impression was that they didn't want any part of it, both the politicians and the people. so why would Russia be concerned by the talk? Even with all of the fighting going on now backed by Russia most Ukrainians (the people) aren't for joining NATO, again where did the concern come from. It goes back to the old saying, "The only person that has to fear a tyrant killer is a tyrant" If Russia wasn't the bogey man why are they worried about these reactions.

and again something I know nothing about but how much did Russia use their Black Sea port? was it only there to house their ships? if they don't have an active port there what is the concern about having a navy stationed there, again no idea what Russia has there? if it is a defensive strategy.
 
Not directly, but it helped.

I don't know why Yanukovych fled the country, but it wasn't because a lone sniper was running around.


This man was democratically elected by a large margin.

He didn't even get 50% of the vote.

Ms "F" bomb, Victoria Nuland

Well done.

97% of Crimeans voted to become a part of the Russian federation.....those numbers don't lie!

Of course not. 100% legit--just ask the Tartars.
 
Sad.

“We don’t have an army,” said Andrei Karnysh, a veteran of the border guard and the chairman of a regional support group, who was visiting the wounded in the military hospital. “These boys were sent on buses, with rifles and just 30 bullets each,” Mr. Karnysh said. “No body armor, nothing.”

Soldiers and veterans interviewed say the armed forces are understaffed, undertrained and underequipped as they confront a much bigger and stronger opponent: not the separatist rebels, but the Russian forces behind them, with their superior firepower. The Kremlin denies taking any role in the fighting, but almost every soldier interviewed here spoke of direct encounters with Russian troops.

People dying due to Kyiv's incompetence.
 
Due to the expansion of NATO, Russia has been concerned that Ukraine would also join which would make the port a NATO base. Since Russia saw the overthrow of Yanukovich as a western-backed plot, they were acting in their own interest in annexing Crimea. Having said that, Putin was certainly playing hardball with Yanukovich to get him to decline the EU proposal.
I'm not so sure about that. Seems like Russia would have allowed The Ukraine to still have trade deals with the EU on a certain level, but the EU's deal to The Ukraine was an all or nothing deal that would have prohibited them from any trade deals with Russia.
 
and again something I know nothing about but how much did Russia use their Black Sea port? was it only there to house their ships? if they don't have an active port there what is the concern about having a navy stationed there, again no idea what Russia has there? if it is a defensive strategy.
It was Russia's only warm water port to the Mediterranean outside of the port in Tartus, Syria... wait... Syria?
 
I'm not so sure about that. Seems like Russia would have allowed The Ukraine to still have trade deals with the EU on a certain level, but the EU's deal to The Ukraine was an all or nothing deal that would have prohibited them from any trade deals with Russia.

I seem to remember Putin threatening to completely cut off trade if the Ukraine accepted the EU deal. But I'd have to look it up.
 
Putin warns Ukraine against implementing EU deal - letter | Reuters

Moscow will curtail Ukraine's access to vital Russian markets if Kiev implements any part of a trade agreement with the European Union, President Vladimir Putin warned in a letter, toughening his stance on a deal at the centre of East-West tensions.

In a letter to Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, seen by Reuters on Tuesday, Putin warned that even changing national legislation to prepare for the EU-Ukraine trade deal, known as the association agreement, would trigger an immediate response from Moscow.
 
Russia's Black Sea Fleet Will Get 80 New Warships to Repel NATO

Russia will construct a second naval base on the Black Sea and reinforce its fleet with 80 warships to ward off what it sees as an increasing NATO presence in the waters around the recently annexed Crimean Peninsula, the head of the Russia's Black Sea fleet said Tuesday.

A new base in the city of Novorossiisk will be built be 2016, and by the end of the decade Russia's Black Sea force will tally 206 ships, Admiral Alexander Vitko was quoted as saying by state news agency TASS.

"With Crimea's return to Russia, the relevance of this base has increased due to the fact that NATO ships are consistently present in the Black Sea," Vitko told President Vladimir Putin, who visited the construction site of the new base in Novorossiisk on Tuesday.
 
"Three NATO countries — Bulgaria, Romania and Turkey — have stretches of coastline on the Black Sea and bases that could be used by the 28-member alliance."

maybe this is why NATO ships are constantly present there......its not like NATO just added those countries either
 

so much wow in that article. it contradicts itself several times:

Russia doesn't care what Europe does with the sanctions, but it hurts Russia so we care about the sanctions that are hurting Europe too and need to stop them.

Russia has been peaceful this whole time and only has defensive plans to protect itself. But if Russia doesn't/can't outlast the sanctions we should go to war, because we need to free Europe.


Do they not realize plenty of European countries have a lot better reason to hate Russia than to hate the US? The USSR wasn't kind to the Eastern Bloc. Poland has more reason than anybody to say FU to Russia, Germany too, well half of Germany. Maybe Europe has seen a Russian lead superpower already fall apart and are more willing to buy into/allow a US lead one.
 
so much wow in that article. it contradicts itself several times:

Russia doesn't care what Europe does with the sanctions, but it hurts Russia so we care about the sanctions that are hurting Europe too and need to stop them.

Russia has been peaceful this whole time and only has defensive plans to protect itself. But if Russia doesn't/can't outlast the sanctions we should go to war, because we need to free Europe.


Do they not realize plenty of European countries have a lot better reason to hate Russia than to hate the US? The USSR wasn't kind to the Eastern Bloc. Poland has more reason than anybody to say FU to Russia, Germany too, well half of Germany. Maybe Europe has seen a Russian lead superpower already fall apart and are more willing to buy into/allow a US lead one.

So Europe hates Russia because it pretty much single handily exterminated nazi germany from Europe? The demonization of USSR/Russia goes way back to right after WW2. All of us on this site have been persuaded from an early age through media, school, movies etc that Russia is the natural enemy of the US. We are force fed the fact any non-democratic country is evil, backward and a threat to democracies throughout the world.

This propaganda war versus Russia now includes the US operated EU and NATO. It is of no coincidence that the puppet states of the EU use the same media bias as the US. 90% of Americans, like yourself, believe every word these media outlets, by design of course. Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Geobbels once stated that any lie that is reinforced time and time again becomes believable. Conditioning of the mind.

With that said, neutrality in media is a scarcity today especially from western media outlets. Obviously this design is the biggest weapon we have against the Russians and it's allies. I'm telling you here and now that I love living in Tennessee and the USofA, but we have the most corrupt, terroristic govt in the world. Russia has bent over backwards to bring and end to the the Ukranian conflict in a peaceful manner, unlike the US. You'd never read it in a newspaper or find it on the first couple of pages of google, but it's the truth...
 
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Puppets of whom?

The US.

Sure, just look at all the peacekeeping tools it's been sending over the border.

Case in point...there have been no verified cases of arms coming from Russia that isn't a fabrication by western media to keep on keeping on..

Any word on the MH117? We were so sure the Russians had a hand in this. Been awful quiet......
 
So Europe hates Russia because it pretty much single handily exterminated nazi germany from Europe? The demonization of USSR/Russia goes way back to right after WW2. All of us on this site have been persuaded from an early age through media, school, movies etc that Russia is the natural enemy of the US. We are force fed the fact any non-democratic country is evil, backward and a threat to democracies throughout the world.

no they hate them because they seized their countries after said war and implemented a system of government that doesn't work and wasn't popular in most of those countries. Also all of the purges that have gone on and can be argued to an extent are still going on by Russia, and was Russia was a pretty crappy guy to have on your side even during WWII, there are numerous times they stood back and let the Germans enact a torched earth policy on local minorities, and in some cases majorities, See Poland and Warsaw uprising and plenty of times even in Russian lands they let the germans finish their purge before moving in. then lets not forget Stalin's purges of his own forces

This propaganda war versus Russia now includes the US operated EU and NATO. It is of no coincidence that the puppet states of the EU use the same media bias as the US. 90% of Americans, like yourself, believe every word these media outlets, by design of course. Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Geobbels once stated that any lie that is reinforced time and time again becomes believable. Conditioning of the mind.

Really?????? an alliance formed to protect against unwanted USSR communist expansion doesn't want communism, or Russia to expand, perhaps fearing a return to the old USSR stance?? ground breaking

bahahahahahahahahahaha, you might be right on the 90% part by in no way shape or form do i believe half of what comes out of MSM, if anything every time i hear them say something that doesn't quite make sense it makes me look it up more, but keep lumping all of us together, kettle.

With that said, neutrality in media is a scarcity today especially from western media outlets. Obviously this design is the biggest weapon we have against the Russians and it's allies. I'm telling you here and now that I love living in Tennessee and the USofA, but we have the most corrupt, terroristic govt in the world. Russia has bent over backwards to bring and end to the the Ukranian conflict in a peaceful manner, unlike the US. You'd never read it in a newspaper or find it on the first couple of pages of google, but it's the truth...

or russian, chinese or any state lead media, but yeah the west is only ones doing it this bad, yeah right.

just wondering, how much experience do you have with other countries? you could easily be right AND know more than me, but the one time I have been out of country (Guatemala) i came back a whole lot more impressed with our country than i was before, and not talking a money/development/culture thing.

how has Russia "bent over backwards"?????by not officially invading?????even if you do believe they don't have any involvement in the current situation how has Russia bent over backwards? Aid convoys that ignore the International Red Cross, UN checkpoints and Ukrainian borders??? Really how has Russia made anything better?

do we have our problems, oh heck yes. are we involved in the situation somehow, EU and NATO yes, but its a lot less than Russia is. You are trying to tell me we, the USofA, are more concerned with what is happening to Russia's neighbor than Russia is?
 
do we have our problems, oh heck yes. are we involved in the situation somehow, EU and NATO yes, but its a lot less than Russia is. You are trying to tell me we, the USofA, are more concerned with what is happening to Russia's neighbor than Russia is?

Obama is telling the world we have problems too.."just look at Ferguson" he says

I say look at the Justice Department
 
do we have our problems, oh heck yes. are we involved in the situation somehow, EU and NATO yes, but its a lot less than Russia is. You are trying to tell me we, the USofA, are more concerned with what is happening to Russia's neighbor than Russia is?

Again, everything you're saying is because you've heard it or been fed from western media. They tell one side and most of the time it is fabricated to push the American agenda to its blind followers. The American brain has been conditioned to say USA good, Russia bad.

I know history and I know WW2. Stalin was not a kind, loved man. I know about the purges. But, being a communist nation does not equal bad nation. China seems to be doing a fine job of implementing this system.

If Russia wanted to invade Ukraine they would be raising the Russian flag in Kyiv in a mere week or two. To claim that the Russian military has invaded Ukraine is laughable.
 
Again, everything you're saying is because you've heard it or been fed from western media. They tell one side and most of the time it is fabricated to push the American agenda to its blind followers. The American brain has been conditioned to say USA good, Russia bad.

I know history and I know WW2. Stalin was not a kind, loved man. I know about the purges. But, being a communist nation does not equal bad nation. China seems to be doing a fine job of implementing this system.

If Russia wanted to invade Ukraine they would be raising the Russian flag in Kyiv in a mere week or two. To claim that the Russian military has invaded Ukraine is laughable.

I know it is cliche but what about Germany during WW2?

Centrally located power for other than defense is a hell of a bad thing.
 
Again, everything you're saying is because you've heard it or been fed from western media. They tell one side and most of the time it is fabricated to push the American agenda to its blind followers. The American brain has been conditioned to say USA good, Russia bad.

I know history and I know WW2. Stalin was not a kind, loved man. I know about the purges. But, being a communist nation does not equal bad nation. China seems to be doing a fine job of implementing this system.

If Russia wanted to invade Ukraine they would be raising the Russian flag in Kyiv in a mere week or two. To claim that the Russian military has invaded Ukraine is laughable.


Who is this Russia you speak of? Is it her people?
 
Again, everything you're saying is because you've heard it or been fed from western media. They tell one side and most of the time it is fabricated to push the American agenda to its blind followers. The American brain has been conditioned to say USA good, Russia bad.

show me any country that doesn't do this and i will give you this point

I know history and I know WW2. Stalin was not a kind, loved man. I know about the purges. But, being a communist nation does not equal bad nation. China seems to be doing a fine job of implementing this system.

communism means more power in fewer hands and a generally weaker population

If Russia wanted to invade Ukraine they would be raising the Russian flag in Kyiv in a mere week or two. no argument hereTo claim that the Russian military has invaded Ukraine is laughable.

you know what I am saying, and you refute with paragraph one, you agree with in paragraph 2? China has a laughable communist system, and it isn't going so well for them either, as soon as they get caught/can't expand past their population problem they are hosed. And plenty of problems within China already, large movements about the environment and culture of China, as well as what is happening in Tibet, Tiawan, and Xinjiang, go ahead and goggle it, I will wait, and try not to read the first story you come across, or at least try not to stop there.

i will agree communism does not equal bad country, Vietnam would be a better example than China.

and as many problems as I have with Putin, the guy is smart and ruthless, he knows if he straight up invaded that could lead to war with somebody and he doesn't want that. instead he is implementing a very Hitleresque strategy of 'reclaiming' Russian lands despite what the country wants. he knows he just has to destabilize the eastern part of Ukraine long enough for the peace talks to come to fruition, and then he gets what he wants, a weaker Ukraine. As far as the Russian military not invading Ukraine, I agree they haven't, just like our military hasn't invaded Iraq or Syria, doesn't mean that we aren't over there performing military sorties.

and you didn't explain how Russia was 'bending over backwards' for peace when they were stationing more and more men near the border, and only recently are they 'stepping back', but not what i would call 'bending over backwards'
 

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