Ukraine Protests

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#4,551
#4,551
Rasputin_Vol said:
And if you are going to be fair and balanced, you cannot believe anything that comes from the US media, also.
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Russian media bias takes a nice steamy dump in the morning, smiles a little bit, and wafs it in the face of American media bias, all while sitting on the toilet with its underwear dropped at its ankles.
 
#4,552
#4,552
Ras, always know that, despite our contradictions and sometimes inept assessments of the situation, you have consistently been the most inept among us all.
 
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#4,554
#4,554
#4,555
#4,555
And I would just like to say to the Ras man, the man with no plan, have you ever stopped to wonder why people hate Russia so much? I mean, even Ukraine (its "brother" nation) hates it. Before blaming this all on a CIA coup, just stop and think about that. I wish more Russians would stop and think about that too.

When America wants to impose itself and change some things, people die.

When Russia wants to impose itself and change some things, people die and borders change.

End of story.
 
#4,556
#4,556
Rasputin_Vol said:
:unsure:
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Are you trying to make a point?

As of when have I supported military intervention in the Ukraine?

And reminder that those comments were made prior to a full on Russian invasion...

And of course, before I came to the realization by watching YouTube videos that it's all a CIA plot masterminded by that chick that hated the EU and was maybe a cheerleader in the Skull and Bones Society and the US was making aggressive moves towards a nuclear first strike to destroy all life as we know it so the Illuminati can take over. Oh, and prior to the collapse in the US Dollar and just before we invade Syria, Iran, Egypt, Gaza, Lebanon and Swaziland. Maybe even Brazil too since those dang refs in that dang World Cup screwed us.
 
#4,557
#4,557
:good!:
volprof said:
Ras, always know that, despite our contradictions and sometimes inept assessments of the situation, you have consistently been the most inept among us all.
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IDK about the most inept, but thanks for the kind words otherwise. Consistency is the mother of skill. I take great pride in being able to stay on message and not waver, in spite of the flak I catch in here with most of you. And lets be honest for a minute, deep down, you guys even have to admit that at a large part of what I'm saying is right. We never should have gotten involved there.
 
#4,558
#4,558
Rasputin_Vol said:
:good!:

IDK about the most inept, but thanks for the kind words otherwise. Consistency is the mother of skill. I take great pride in being able to stay on message and not waver, in spite of the flak I catch in here with most of you. And lets be honest for a minute, deep down, you guys even have to admit that at a large part of what I'm saying is right. We never should have gotten involved there.
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News flash. We still aren't involved there.

And no, I can't admit a large part of your SCG/Alex Jones fantasy world is right. Even remotely.
 
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#4,561
#4,561
Velo Vol said:
I don't hate Russia; I just disagree with this policy its government is pursuing.
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I don't either. It's my favorite country to study. I just like to give it a hard time, just like Rasputin.

I can understand its fears regarding what it perceives as the encroachment from the West; however, I think a lot of this (in fact, the majority of it) is the result of its own inept policies towards the peoples of the former Russian Empire/USSR and Eastern Europe. The chickens coming home to "Rus," so to speak.

Regarding this particular crisis, Russia has enabled a failed, corrupt Ukrainian govt. since its independence and, once that govt. decided to go west, young man, Russia decides to intervene and impose its will.
 
#4,562
#4,562
Beware ye all of one they call "Nuland" bearing cookies. One bite, and you will become her automaton in the latest CIA coup.
 
#4,563
#4,563
volprof said:
I don't either. It's my favorite country to study. I just like to give it a hard time, just like Rasputin.
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At another forum I've been accused of being anti-Russian (the ethnic group) because I'm against the separatist uprising.

No, I just people with grievances against the government (and there may have been legitimate ones against Kyiv) should try to work within the system rather than taking to shooting down planes.

Meanwhile, speaking of grievances,

Russians Are Protesting the War in Ukraine, and Are Being Arrested by Russian Police
 
#4,564
#4,564
@MiddleEast_BRK 8m

#BreakingNews 15 Ukrainian soldiers got killed and 49 wounded during the last 24 hours.

@MiddleEast_BRK 6m

No army in the world can take 30-70 casualties per day for a longer period of time ... Ukraine does so since some 60 days.

Sad to see. Judging from the amount of losses the Ukrainians have lost the war, it's just a matter of when a cease fire is achieved.
 
#4,565
#4,565
Apparently Putin quipped today, I would imagine in his typical mafioso fashion, that, if he wanted, he could take Kiev in two weeks.

Good ole' Putster. You can always count on him for a soundbite or two.
 
#4,566
#4,566
volprof said:
Apparently Putin quipped today, I would imagine in his typical mafioso fashion, that, if he wanted, he could take Kiev in two weeks.

Good ole' Putster. You can always count on him for a soundbite or two.
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This feels like the book that OJ wrote about how he WOULD HAVE murdered his wife. If I Was Going to Invade The Ukraine by Vladimir Putin.

it also gives him an out when he finally 'officially' invades and takes Kiev because he was just proving a point, you know not invading a country with thousands of troops and just researching the book.
 
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#4,567
#4,567
So why is is that we're still refusing to call this an invasion? Also when Mariupol falls, it's not a matter of if but when at this point, should we start considering arming Ukrainian forces?
 
#4,570
#4,570
Burhead said:
Media.

Oh and this

@chiaradef 3h

@NATO confirms Land Force Exercises in #Ukraine / September 13-20, co-hosted by Ukraine-US Army Europe, with nearly a dozen nations involved
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Russia plans on attending those exercises as well, but as an uninvited guest.
 
#4,571
#4,571
Burhead said:
So why is is that we're still refusing to call this an invasion? Also when Mariupol falls, it's not a matter of if but when at this point, should we start considering arming Ukrainian forces?
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Both the media and the official Pentagon/State Dept. public stance is that it's a series of incursions. I think the hope is that soft language will not distance the Russians too much from reaching a peaceful and legitimate settlement. Whether or not that will really work is another question.

Regarding your other question, I still haven't made up my mind about arming Ukraine. Depending upon how far the Russians are willing to go (and I think we all just need to admit to ourselves that it is much further than we are willing, because Putin has placed his stakes and even career on winning in Ukraine, whereas it's a peripheral issue mostly for us), arming the Ukrainians may or may not be effective. It's more likely that arming them will only make them a more effective fighting force, at which point Putin commits even more and Russian forces end up taking our **** just like ISIS.

It's a conundrum, that's for sure. And volprof doesn't just up and throw around the term "conundrum" any ole' time.
 
#4,572
#4,572
Burhead said:
Media.
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I'm guessing you're talking primarily about TV news? Frankly, I don't watch much of it these days other than a bit of the prime time programs, which aren't really news broadcasts. Twitter feed is the best way to stay up on what's happening.

Burhead said:
@NATO confirms Land Force Exercises in #Ukraine / September 13-20, co-hosted by Ukraine-US Army Europe, with nearly a dozen nations involved
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More.

U.S., allies to stage exercises in West Ukraine as battles rage in East | Reuters

Some buzz over the weekend about NATO's rapid reaction force. But that sounds quite small. Is it really a deterrent?
 
#4,573
#4,573
volprof said:
I think the hope is that soft language will not distance the Russians too much from reaching a peaceful and legitimate settlement.
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The Russian's have been calling for a peaceful solution since this thing started. I know that's not going to be a popular opinion around here, but it's the way I see it. The Ukrainian government was overthrown, the ethnic Russians overwhelmingly voted for independence, and Kiev sent the army into Eastern Ukraine.

When the Kurds declare autonomy, we don't urge Iraq to invade to maintain there sovereign borders. If Scottland votes for independence this month, will we urge England to take that land back? I just don't get it, are we for freedom or not?
 
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#4,574
#4,574
red butler said:
The Russian's have been calling for a peaceful solution since this thing started. I know that's not going to be a popular opinion around here, but it's the way I see it. The Ukrainian government was overthrown, the ethnic Russians overwhelmingly voted for independence, and Kiev sent the army into Eastern Ukraine.

When the Kurds declare autonomy, we don't urge Iraq to invade to maintain there sovereign borders. If Scottland votes for independence this month, will we urge England to take that land back? I just don't get it.
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First - The Russians' plan for "peace" is dividing a sovereign country's territory through use of force. Finally you're wrong but that's okay.

Second - Yanukovych was a corrupt puppet of the Kremlin who went against his people's wishes & brutalized them on the streets when they spoke out.

Third - Regardless if you admit it or not, deep down, you know those "referendums" were conducted during Russian military occupation and war-time conditions. No free and fair vote could ever take place under such scenarios.

Fourth - Kiev has every right to send in the army and police when foreign backed terrorists are taking over government buildings and openly talking about secession and joining a foreign country. They are nothing more than terrorists who deserve everything they've gotten


And now the Russians are openly disregarding all international norms and willfully violating Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity by deploying Russian equipment and combat troops to take the east.

PS. Any government would send in the army under such conditions. Just look at how the Russians treated the Chechens...

Fifth - The Kurds have been victimized for years by Saddam's Iraq. Not to mention they have not tried to declare independence nor join a foreign country to this point.

As for Scotland, the Scottish people didn't resort to terrorism nor violence and I have full confidence in the British democracy that such a vote will be conducted legally, and be free and fair to all people. Russia does not earn that trust due to the dictatorship of Putin.
 
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#4,575
#4,575
volprof said:
arming the Ukrainians may or may not be effective. It's more likely that arming them will only make them a more effective fighting force, at which point Putin commits even more and Russian forces end up taking our **** just like ISIS.
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If the Russians do an all-out invasion, American help isn't going to matter. If they continue this limited invasion, our help could change the playing field.
 
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