U.S. and Mexico Agree to Preliminary Nafta Deal

#55
#55
0nelilreb said:
Honest question , what kind of allies do we have if they virtue signal in public how horrible , despicable and vile Putin and Russia are and at the same time paying him billions to get 80% of their energy from Russia ?
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Desperate?
 
#56
#56
0nelilreb said:
Honest question , what kind of allies do we have if they virtue signal in public how horrible , despicable and vile Putin and Russia are and at the same time paying him billions to get 80% of their energy from Russia ?
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Similar to someone who says that no one has ever been tougher in Russia while at the same time licking their leaders boots? I dunno.
 
#57
#57
General Jack said:
Similar to someone who says that no one has ever been tougher in Russia while at the same time licking their leaders boots? I dunno.
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But one put sanctions on Russians while the other pays them billions for energy .
 
#59
#59
0nelilreb said:
But one put sanctions on Russians while the other pays them billions for energy .
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You can't spin anything Russia related to trump's advantage. That right was given up when he defended Putin over ALL of the US intelligence agencies and his own appointed DNI. And how, interestingly enough, the only subject off limits to his ire is Putin.

Those sanctions only came about because the adults in the room forced it through. Unfortunately those same adults that can't keep trump's orange sausage fingers off twitter in the wee hours.
 
#61
#61
General Jack said:
You can't spin anything Russia related to trump's advantage. That right was given up when he defended Putin over ALL of the US intelligence agencies and his own appointed DNI. And how, interestingly enough, the only subject off limits to his ire is Putin.


Those sanctions only came about because the adults in the room forced it through. Unfortunately those same adults that can't keep trump's orange sausage fingers off twitter in the wee hours.
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I’m not spinning anything , I’m just laying out the facts . My question is why should we trust allies that virtue signal in public one way while propping up Russia’s economy behind the scenes ? That’s not even mentioning calling Putin a killer , screams OF how evil he is then allowing Russia to host the World Cup ( the largest sporting event on the planet ) .. HYPOCRISY running rampant .
 
#62
#62
n_huffhines said:
Trump has been calling NAFTA a very bad deal for the US, but it's not. It's been a good deal for us. Could it be better? Yes. Do I have faith in the guy who doesn't even know it's a good deal to come up with a better deal? I'm not betting on that horse.

Free Trade Has Worked. Just Look at Texas.
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Not true. Whatever deal is made Mexico (the big 5 powers) will cheat on it. They have been raping the NAFTA system simply by purchasing raw materials from China rather then the USA, as the deal states. The raw material suppliers NAFTA was supposed to protect are out of business now thanks to Mexico. Hopefully this deal will just be straight trade, every man for himself type business. No more tax free shipments across the border using foreign raw materials. The wall will be paid for in 3 months time if this is the case, and who will be paying?
 
#64
#64
0nelilreb said:
I’m not spinning anything , I’m just laying out the facts . My question is why should we trust allies that virtue signal in public one way while propping up Russia’s economy behind the scenes ? That’s not even mentioning calling Putin a killer , screams OF how evil he is then allowing Russia to host the World Cup ( the largest sporting event on the planet ) .. HYPOCRISY running rampant .
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Because the totality of the actions of those allies over the past 70+ years is that they support the same ideals that we do as Americans. We come to their aid when necessary, they come to our aid when necessary (think 9/11).

The world is very complex, as I'm sure you know, many Americans do business in russia (including trump). You can't just single out the fact that since some european countries buy natural resources from russia that we can't trust them.

The single most shocking fact pattern related to russia is trump's inability to be critical of putin when he is indiscriminately critical of everyone else.
 
#65
#65
There are a few posters who normally dominate the post count of every thread that are missing from this thread. Are y'all having a hard time linking this to Russia?
 
#68
#68
Highlights so far:

  • Auto manufacturing: The new deal would require that 75% of the parts in any car sold in North America be produced in the United States or Mexico. Currently, about 62% of partsare required to be produced in the United States, Mexico or Canada.
  • Higher labor standards: The new deal would require that 40% to 45% of auto parts in cars sold be made by workers earning at least $16 USD per hour.
  • Sunset clause: The agreement will last for 16 years, and will be reviewed every six years.
It seems like progress but there are still some data points missing to be able to evaluate this and it will still take years for them to come out if this goes through. we'll see. Good luck Trump.
 
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#69
#69
Trump has oversold this, just like he does everything else ("There is no more nuclear threat from North Korea!"). There will be no bilateral agreement between the United States and Mexico, so even the title "US - Mexico Trade Agreement" is misleading. Though Trump has repeatedly indicated he would prefer to reach bilateral agreements with Canada and Mexico, those two countries have maintained a united front that a trilateral agreement is the only one they will sign. There was no indication today, that Mexico has changed that position. This is a transparent attempt by Trump to re-brand NAFTA and declare some sort of victory while doing nothing more than requiring car companies to manufacture at least 75% of an automobile's value in North America, up from 62.5% in order to qualify for NAFTA's zero tariffs. They will also be required to use more local steel, aluminum and auto parts while having 40 to 45 percent of the car made by workers earning at least $16 per hour. More than anything, it's a win for Labor Unions (if it even happens at all) but make no mistake, NAFTA is not fundamentally changed by this. This is Trump, engaging in mostly symbolic moves and re-branding it in his favor. The comments on this thread show just how impressed some of you are when Trump does anything more than send an obnoxious tweet.
 
#70
#70
BowlBrother85 said:
Trump has oversold this, just like he does everything else ("There is no more nuclear threat from North Korea!"). There will be no bilateral agreement between the United States and Mexico, so even the title "US - Mexico Trade Agreement" is misleading. Though Trump has repeatedly indicated he would prefer to reach bilateral agreements with Canada and Mexico, those two countries have maintained a united front that a trilateral agreement is the only one they will sign. There was no indication today, that Mexico has changed that position. This is a transparent attempt by Trump to re-brand NAFTA and declare some sort of victory while doing nothing more than requiring car companies to manufacture at least 75% of an automobile's value in North America, up from 62.5% in order to qualify for NAFTA's zero tariffs. They will also be required to use more local steel, aluminum and auto parts while having 40 to 45 percent of the car made by workers earning at least $16 per hour. More than anything, it's a win for Labor Unions (if it even happens at all) but make no mistake, NAFTA is not fundamentally changed by this. This is Trump, engaging in mostly symbolic moves and re-branding it in his favor. The comments on this thread show just how impressed some of you are when Trump does anything more than send an obnoxious tweet.
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I hope you don't have children, You criticize EVERRYTHING.
 
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#71
#71
1972 Grad said:
I hope you don't have children, You criticize EVERRYTHING.
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Not everything... but anyone here should be able to see that NAFTA isn't being done away with. This is a classic example of re-branding. Trump wants to make just enough changes to an existing deal to take credit for the whole thing later (as his own completely new trade agreement). It's a political selling point to the base. "I'm fighting to keep jobs in America and for higher wages!". It's very transparent in it's objective. I would expect to see the conservatives and Trump apologists here swallowing it... but Mick and Clearwater Vol have surprised me a bit.

...and once again, Mexico isn't budging without Canada.
 
#72
#72
BowlBrother85 said:
Not everything... but anyone here should be able to see that NAFTA isn't being done away with. This is a classic example of re-branding. Trump wants to make just enough changes to an existing deal to take credit for the whole thing later (as his own completely new trade agreement). It's a political selling point to the base. "I'm fighting to keep jobs in America and for higher wages!". It's very transparent in it's objective. I would expect to see the conservatives and Trump apologists here swallowing it... but Mick and Clearwater Vol have surprised me a bit.

...and once again, Mexico isn't budging without Canada.
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I really don't have enough information. I'm treating this like the NK summit, Hopeful. At this point he don't deserve praise.
 
#73
#73
Mick said:
Highlights so far:
  • Auto manufacturing: The new deal would require that 75% of the parts in any car sold in North America be produced in the United States or Mexico. Currently, about 62% of partsare required to be produced in the United States, Mexico or Canada.
  • Higher labor standards: The new deal would require that 40% to 45% of auto parts in cars sold be made by workers earning at least $16 USD per hour.
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JFC, both of those measures take us further away from free market principles.
 
#74
#74
Mick said:
I really don't have enough information. I'm treating this like the NK summit, Hopeful. At this point he don't deserve praise.
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More than anything, this sort of thing speaks to Trump's egotism and dishonesty. He wants to take a long standing, existing agreement and tinker with the numbers a bit and then repackage the whole thing with his name, so he can sell it to his base - as his own negotiated deal, with increased wages. It's a good political ploy for sure, and his base will eat it up but it's not genuine. NAFTA isn't being fundamentally changed or done away with even if Trump gets what he wants. This is just politics.
 
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