Two Questions from LSU game

#51
#51
utvolpj said:
so you think that yet another thread about throwing the helmet is needed and it hasn't been discussed enough? Please tell me where the issue is because I'm at a loss.

I figure it's a discussion board, the OP did some due diligence and actually searched the board for related posts and couldn't find his answer. You went through the trouble to post a smart @$$ comment - if you're going to bother posting you could at least help him out. I guess I just have a different point of view on these things.
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#52
#52
In regards to the extra point - the only way it counts as 1 point is if it is kicked through the uprights. If a player carries the ball into the endzone, regardless if he is on offense or defense or no matter what formation the offense lines up in, it's 2 points.
 
#53
#53
Last year Auburn got 2 points for a blocked PAT returned to the opponent's (Ole Miss) end zone...

DEFENSIVE LINEMAN OF THE WEEK
ANTONIO COLEMAN
Defensive End
AUBURN
6-3 • 261 • Senior
Mobile, Ala. (Williamson HS)

• Coleman recorded five tackles, while tying career highs with four tackles for loss (-15 yards), including two sacks (-11) along with one forced fumble, four quarterback hurries and one blocked kick, in the Tigers’ 33-20 upset victory over Ole Miss.

• The four TFL were the most by an Auburn player since Coleman equaled the feat at Georgia in 2007.

• Coleman’s blocked kick came in the third quarter on a PAT, which was recovered by Demond Washington and returned for a defensive two-point conversion. It was a three-point swing, turning a potential 31-21 AU lead to a 33-20 AU lead.
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NCAAFootball.com :: SEC names players of the week
 
#55
#55
I'm confused.

Burgundy might be right. It may only be worth 1 point if the kick is blocked, recovered by the D, and then the defender is somehow tackled in his own endzone.

Can we get someone to post the actual rule. jt5 = too lazy to actually look it up.
 
#56
#56
I'm trying to look it up but the link to the rule book on the NCAA website isn't working for me, someone else might try. But I'm sure the ONLY way to get one point in football is by kicking the ball through the uprights. Anything else that happens on a PAT attempt results in 2.
 
#57
#57
Jaytrain5 said:
I'm confused.

Burgundy might be right. It may only be worth 1 point if the kick is blocked, recovered by the D, and then the defender is somehow tackled in his own endzone.

Can we get someone to post the actual rule. jt5 = too lazy to actually look it up.
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Here's the exact text, but it's not very clear...

SECTION 1. Value of Scores

Scoring Plays

ARTICLE 1. The point value of scoring plays shall be:
Touchdown — 6 Points
Field Goal — 3 Points
Safety (points awarded to opponent) — 2 Points
Successful Try:
Touchdown — 2 Points
Field Goal or Safety — 1 Point

SECTION 3. Try Down

How Scored
ARTICLE 1. The point or points shall be scored according to the point values in Rule 8-1-1 if the try results in what would be a touchdown, safety (Exception: Rule 8-3-4-a) or field goal under rules governing play at other times (A.R. 8-3-1-I-III; A.R. 8-3-2-I-III, V and VIII; and A.R. 10-2-5-XXVIII).

Opportunity to Score
ARTICLE 2. A try is an opportunity for either team to score one or two points while the game clock is stopped after a touchdown. It is a special interval in the game which, for purposes of penalty enforcement only, includes both a down and the “ready’’ period that precedes it.

a. The ball shall be put in play by the team that scored a six-point touchdown. If a touchdown is scored during a down in which time in the fourth period expires, the try shall not be attempted unless the point(s) would affect the outcome of the game.

b. The try, which is a scrimmage down, begins when the ball is declared ready for play.

c. The snap will be midway between the inbounds lines on the opponent’s three-yard line or from any other point on or between the inbounds lines on or behind the opponent’s three-yard line if the position of the ball is selected by the team designated to put the ball in play before the ready-for-play signal. The ball may be relocated after a charged timeout to either team unless preceded by a Team A foul or offsetting penalties
(Rules 8-3-3-a and 8-3-3-c-1).

d. The try ends when:
1. Either team scores.
2. The ball is dead by rule (A.R. 8-3-2-IV and VI).
3. An accepted penalty results in a score.
FR-110 RULE 8-3 / SCORING
4. A Team A loss-of-down penalty is accepted (Rule 8-3-3-c-2).
5. Before a change of team possession, a Team A player fumbles and the ball is caught or recovered by any Team A player other than the fumbler. There is no Team A score (A.R. 8-3-2-IX-XI).
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Edit: I do want to note that Article 2-a says that they should have made LSU attempt the extra point.
 
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#58
#58
They dont have to attempt the extra point because it would not effect the outcome of the game. The same reason we did not attempt one versus uab in the second overtime.
 
#59
#59
Found it. The rules are sketchy but the interpretations are very clear.

Rule 8-3 Interpretations. Sec 3- Try Down. Art 2

III.
On a one-point try attempt, B2 blocks A1’s kick. The ball, which does not cross the neutral zone, is picked up by A2, and he advances the ball across Team B’s goal line. RULING: Award Team A two
points (Rule 8-3-1).

V.
On a one-point try attempt, Team A’s kick is blocked. The ball is advanced by ball carrier B1 across Team A’s goal line. RULING:
Award Team B two points (Rule 8-3-1).

According to the interpretations there should have been an xp attempt of some sort as the Vols could score 2 points in a variety of ways.
 
#60
#60
They were supposed to attempt the try since if the defense scores a td whether on fumble, interception of blocked kick would result in 2 pts and a tied game. However UT refused to take the field for the try.
The 1 pt safety thing you guys are talking about happened during the Texas-Texas A&M game several years ago with the defense getting a turn over but then fumbled the ball into the endzone resulting in a safety for 1 pt awarded to teh offense. It was the weirdest play I've ever seen. Silliness listening to a Vandy fan, what do they know about football?
 
#61
#61
vandyfan71 said:
Found it. The rules are sketchy but the interpretations are very clear.

Rule 8-3 Interpretations. Sec 3- Try Down. Art 2

III.
On a one-point try attempt, B2 blocks A1’s kick. The ball, which does not cross the neutral zone, is picked up by A2, and he advances the ball across Team B’s goal line. RULING: Award Team A two
points (Rule 8-3-1).

V.
On a one-point try attempt, Team A’s kick is blocked. The ball is advanced by ball carrier B1 across Team A’s goal line. RULING:
Award Team B two points (Rule 8-3-1).

According to the interpretations there should have been an xp attempt of some sort as the Vols could score 2 points in a variety of ways.
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I think this pretty much answers the question.
 
#65
#65
vandyfan71 said:
Nah, redneck sidewalk fan. Surprised they allow me on campus to attend games. :dance2:
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I go to a few vandy games a year. Believe me, they will allow you in. They need all the butts in seats to sell those over prices burgers they can get.
 
#67
#67
fairviewvol said:
They dont have to attempt the extra point because it would not effect the outcome of the game. The same reason we did not attempt one versus uab in the second overtime.
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The attempt of the extra point absolutely could have had an impact on the game with LSU - they were up by two.

We didn't attempt the extra point against UAB because it was goverened by overtime rules which clearly state the game is over if the second team with possesion scores more than the first team with possesion in each overtime period.
 
#68
#68
UT IE 95 said:
The attempt of the extra point absolutely could have had an impact on the game with LSU - they were up by two.

We didn't attempt the extra point against UAB because it was goverened by overtime rules which clearly state the game is over if the second team with possesion scores more than the first team with possesion in each overtime period.
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Exactly. I assume LSU would have just taken a knee, but still, it should have been allowed.
 
#69
#69
The refs spotted the ball for it, but Tennessee ran to the locker room, in effect refused to take the field for the try. At which point the refs rather than bring everyone out for a third time let it go.
 
#70
#70
mchandl7 said:
The refs spotted the ball for it, but Tennessee ran to the locker room, in effect refused to take the field for the try. At which point the refs rather than bring everyone out for a third time let it go.
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This and it would have been impossible to clear the fans off of the field at that point from what I understand...
 
#71
#71
First, let me say that this is my first post here, and in no way do I intend to come here and gloat. I enjoyed hosting several visiting Vol fans at our tailgate before the game and stopped to speak with several more on my return from Tiger Stadium.

I wear my colors proudly, but I have never been more embarrassed after a win than I was on Saturday. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to have a "W", but one of our commentators made a very valid observation after the game. LSU is the Forrest Gump of college football this year. We have simply shown up and let other teams lose, we have yet to win a game.

I understand that as a Tiger fan, I watch games through Purple and Gold colored glasses, but I have gone back to watch the replay and must say that the officiating was atrocious on both sides of the ball. There were many horribly obvious calls that were missed, including the helmet rip on Simms, some hits out of bounds, holding (both sides), etc. LSU may be the laughing stock of NCAA football offensively, but the SEC officiating at the least equals, if not surpasses us in ineptitude.

All that said, my take on this topic is as follows:

1) This has been discussed in detail across all of the boards that I have visited. The LSU player should not have taken off his helmet, no question. At the same time, the Tennessee sideline should not have rushed the field at the exact same moment he is removing his helmet. I call this one a push, both teams being wrong.

2) As to the conversion attempt, we actually sent the personnel out to take a knee (it was our jumbo package). From the stands, I watched one of the Vol coaches go to an official and wave off the attempt, at which point they announced the game officially over across the PA system. I think this was a mistake by the Vol coaching staff, because, as many people have pointed out, anything can happen on that play which could have tied the game.

All in all, it was without doubt the strangest thing I've ever witnessed at a football game. Despite the outcome, I truly did enjoy getting to meet some great members of the Volunteer nation. I hope to see them again when I get the opportunity to visit Knoxville.

Best of luck throughout the rest of the season (I'd say we've used all of our luck up, but Les Miles must have a leprechaun in his pocket, because he keeps coming up with new and exciting ways to exhibit his incompetence while still winning games).
 
#72
#72
MungBard said:
:

1) This has been discussed in detail across all of the boards that I have visited. The LSU player should not have taken off his helmet, no question. At the same time, the Tennessee sideline should not have rushed the field at the exact same moment he is removing his helmet. I call this one a push, both teams being wrong.
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No. It's not a push. One team committed a sideline infraction that would have resulted in a warning. One team committed a personal foul which would have resulted in a 15 yard penalty.

Other than that, nice post.
 
#73
#73
VolBurgers said:
No. It's not a push. One team committed a sideline infraction that would have resulted in a warning. One team committed a personal foul which would have resulted in a 15 yard penalty.

Other than that, nice post.
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Actually, it is not a sideline infraction if the play is live, which is what most people agree.

If the play is over prior to the rushing the field and helmet throw, then neither penalty can be called because at that point, the game was technically "over" (and you can't have a penalty after the game). Yes, there was another untimed play that resulted from a defensive penalty called in the end zone, but the officials that would call the Personal Foul on LSU or the sideline infraction on Tennessee cannot be expected to know this, thus they have no reason to throw the napkin.

If the play is not over, then this is illegal participation (part 2) on the Volunteer sideline, not a warning.

Either scenario results in the same situation for the last play. As to that final play, I do think that there was an illegal shift that LSU got away with, but my apologizing for bad officiating doesn't change the outcome. :no:
 
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#75
#75
MungBard said:
Actually, it is not a sideline infraction if the play is live, which is what most people agree.
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Rulebook said:
1. During the game, coaches, substitutes and authorized attendants in
the team area shall not be on the field of play or outside the 25-yard
lines without permission from the referee unless legally entering or
leaving the field (Exceptions: Rules 1-2-4-g and 3-3-8-c). Team area
personnel who are outside the team area and who have involvement
or impact on live-ball play are subject to penalty under Rule 9-1-4-a.

PENALTY—Dead-ball foul. 15 yards [S7, S27] from the succeeding
spot. Flagrant offenders, if players or substitutes, shall be
disqualified [S47].
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The player was not involved, nor did he impact anything.
 
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