Twenty Long Years

#53
#53
rikberry31 said:
Coach Phillip Fulmer did not retire. He was disrespectfully, unceremoniously, and wrongly fired by a punk named Mike Hamilton. That is what started all this mess and Heup is fixing it.
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The fanbase wanted it. Not everybody of course, but Volnation walked off the plank voluntarily. Hamilton gave the people what they wanted.
 
#55
#55
GetYouSomeofThat said:
That would be an inaccurate take.

Fulmer was informed that he wouldnt be the coach after the season finished, the week of the Wyoming game.
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Yes. He knew BEFORE the Wyoming game. It appeared he did nothing to prepare the team. It was the worst game Iā€™ve ever attended. Regrettably, it was the first and last game we attended as a family.
 
#57
#57
VFL-82-JP said:
Hasn't been 20 years. In 2007 we played for the SEC championship. Didn't win it, no, but we were in the hunt. A 10-win season.

Folks who like to hate on Fulmer love to take away his last four years, as if they were all losing seasons. Or his last eight years. Or everything after the national championship. But that's just haters being haters.

We were relevant right up until 2008.

And Josh arrived in 2021 to begin righting the ship.

So it's not 20 years. It is 13: 2008 to 2020, inclusive.

Go Vols!
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Tennessee did Fulmer a favor by firing him. Without Cutcliffe he wasn't much. He tried to bury this program twice, as coach and athletic director

#1fulmerite said:
Should have given him a sabbatical. He would have come back fresh and led us to another NC!
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Now that's hilarious

luthervol said:
I was always of the mindset that firing Fulmer was the wrong thing to do. He had at least another 10 years left in him. Had he been able to leave with the dignity he deserved, the replacement and the ensuing years would have likely have seen us remain at the top.
TN unnecessarily sacrificed a ton of goodwill that ultimate hurt the program.
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If he had 10 years left in him, we would have been in really bad shape. I was glad when he got fired

VOLfrombama said:
I loved Fulmer as a coach. He provided some of the greatest moments in my life from a UT football perspective. That being said, the problem with keeping Fulmer is that Cutcliffe wasn't staying regardless of offers because he wanted to be a HC. Fulmer struggled with other OCs when Cut wasn't there. Clawson didn't really get a fair shake as OC with only one season, but the offense clearly wasn't the same without Cut.
No doubt Hamilton and Co screwed the pooch during and after his tenure. That seemed inevitable because he was almost completely inept as an AD.
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Fulmer wasn't much without Cutcliffe.. fact
 
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#59
#59
luthervol said:
I'm fairly certain our record from 2009-2018 would have been better under Fulmer.
TN spiraled aimlessly for 15 years.
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I agree, but I also doubt we would have won an SEC championship or competed for a NC.
 
#60
#60
luthervol said:
I'm fairly certain our record from 2009-2018 would have been better under Fulmer.
TN spiraled aimlessly for 15 years.
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He probably would have won about 7-8 games a year. Saban would have stomped him every year. Spurrier at SC would still be beating him down.
 
#61
#61
rikberry31 said:
Coach Phillip Fulmer did not retire. He was disrespectfully, unceremoniously, and wrongly fired by a punk named Mike Hamilton. That is what started all this mess and Heup is fixing it.
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And as another example of Fulmer's bad decision making, he advocated and fought for Mike Hamilton to be the AD and is a primary reason why he was selected. If Fulmer has said no, Hamilton would not be the AD.
 
#62
#62
TheDeeble said:
And as another example of Fulmer's bad decision making, he advocated and fought for Mike Hamilton to be the AD and is a primary reason why he was selected. If Fulmer has said no, Hamilton would not be the AD.
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I was always told Schumaker was going on vacation and didnā€™t want the AD selection hanging over him so that Thursday/Friday before he left, he just phoned Hamilton and told him he had it. Now, Fulmer may have made it known he wanted Hamilton and that played a role in it. However, without Dickey and Johnson in administration, he was done for. Also, who were the boosters who gave Hamilton the go ahead?
 
#63
#63
luthervol said:
I was always of the mindset that firing Fulmer was the wrong thing to do. He had at least another 10 years left in him. Had he been able to leave with the dignity he deserved, the replacement and the ensuing years would have likely have seen us remain at the top.
TN unnecessarily sacrificed a ton of goodwill that ultimate hurt the program.
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This is a fair take ā€¦. I remember thinking he didnā€™t look good physically during the 2008 seasonā€¦. As if stress had gotten to him and he was tired and worn down.
The Fulmer hate that gets displayed here is ridiculous
 
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#64
#64
To return to my original thoughts: Heuple came in and straightened up a beat down situation. He had the pieces in place, a good team, including a stellar quarterback and receiver. The players responded, developed a culture and won some games. However, the ā€œdumpster fireā€ events and associated themes in the press, likely hurt recruiting; and it showed with a trend of good but not great classes - so far as ā€œratingsā€ describe anything.

However, with Heuple the ā€œusualā€ has been stout classes and this year recruiting seems to be on yet another significant upswing. Winning some games, a good atmosphere within the culture and stability are components that help make that happen.

Coaches ā€¦ I wonder sometimes how hard it is to get a ā€œfull packageā€ among a staff. For example, some professors can do world renown research and yet, even so, do not excel in the classroom. Some are great teachers but research is not anywhere near a strength. Point is, putting together a coaching staff is probably a puzzle of pieces, a compromise between the science of teaching on-field mechanics and the art of convincing teen-agers to come to UT.

Gotta bring ā€˜em in - and, yes, gotta teach ā€˜em up. Tough job.

Fulmer ā€œinherited a good team but also, likely, a better situation. And the massive changes that have impacted college football had not come into being.

Comparisons have some value but are not straightforward.

So, all that said, the specter of a fan base turning on this coach is pretty scary. Try hunting up another head coach in the current atmosphere of big-time programs heaving ā€˜em out and huntā€™n up another. I think Heuple has done remarkable work. I think the best thing would be for the VolNation to say to recruits ā€œthis is our man.ā€

If I had my druthers, Iā€™d extend his contract.

Iā€™m sort of like the cat that touched a hot stove. Never did touch a hot stove again. But - never touched a cold one either.

I was burned by those ā€œtwenty long years.ā€

And I read where our coach is ā€œjust a 10-winā€ kind of coach. Holy Cow ā€¦ do that math for a winning percentage. Win at that level, stay in the National Championship ā€œconversationā€ and good things can happen. Real big things.
 
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#65
#65
VFL-82-JP said:
Hasn't been 20 years. In 2007 we played for the SEC championship. Didn't win it, no, but we were in the hunt. A 10-win season.

Folks who like to hate on Fulmer love to take away his last four years, as if they were all losing seasons. Or his last eight years. Or everything after the national championship. But that's just haters being haters.

We were relevant right up until 2008.

And Josh arrived in 2021 to begin righting the ship.

So it's not 20 years. It is 13: 2008 to 2020, inclusive.

Go Vols!
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Exactly. And there were a couple of 9-win seasons mixed into those 13 years. It actually wasnā€™t much different from Alabamaā€™s bad stretch from 1997-2006 (10 seasons) before Saban arrived in 2007 to start righting the ship. Ours was 3 seasons longer, but both were overall awful stretches for historically blueblood programs, with a couple of good seasons mixed in.

The winning percentages for each school during those respective stretches were:

Alabama (97-06): .481
Tennessee (08-20): .450

Source: stassen.com
 
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#66
#66
SilvaDoc said:
And so it goes, after Fulmer retired we become everyone elseā€™s homecoming game for nearly 20 years ā€¦ and just about irrelevant in college football.

Fulmer won about 3/4 of his games and finally we have a coach who is winning just about 3/4 of his games. And, of course, in a rebuilding year with significant injuries in very critical parts of the team, especially the defense (lose an all-American corner back and it oughtā€™a sting), and with a couple of losses in games where it could have gone either way, and with recruiting success soaring, we get those who are saying, ā€œyeah, that coach gotta get better real quick or he has gotta go ā€¦ā€

Couch coaching is somehow easier with a loss or two to work with.

Iā€™ve heard this before. We all have. Twenty or so years ago.

Added, a new quarterback comes in, a journeyman looking for a chance and heā€™s not only good, but with this coaching staff helping, he is great. The focus has been on his mistakes, but truth be told heā€™s thrown some fantastic darts for touchdowns and high mileage gains, throws that some quarterbacks could not make or would not attempt because of the inherent risk. He has been immense fun to watch, but like any quarterback even he needs time to at least take a look downfield.

So, here we are, relevant again, all season in the discussion for college footballā€™s ultimate prize, with an offense that is booming, an injured defense that is playing hard, a coach that is good, getting better and will likely be great ā€¦ and naysayers seem to have forgotten those long, hard twenty years.

Best to learn from history. It can be repeated. Making vast changes do indeed, usually, mean vast results. But, which way?
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I disagree with your first statement, we haven't been "everyone else's homecoming game" even during our worst years, nor have we been "irrelevant"

I agree with your take on the legions of the miserable per se, but coaching IS not immune from constructive criticism

The trick is to ignore the 5-6 posters who are always miserable because they would rather "be right" then cheer on the Vols.
 
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#67
#67
luthervol said:
I was always of the mindset that firing Fulmer was the wrong thing to do. He had at least another 10 years left in him. Had he been able to leave with the dignity he deserved, the replacement and the ensuing years would have likely have seen us remain at the top.
TN unnecessarily sacrificed a ton of goodwill that ultimate hurt the program.
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Firing Fulmer wasn't "wrong" in the grand scheme of how the program was and where it was going in relation to other SEC programs, however I might have given him one more year and see what happened.

But in retrospect the issue was hiring Kiffin to replace him instead of Gary Patterson
 
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#68
#68
vols40 said:
His teams regressed every year after 98. He had two chances to hire OC not named David Cutcliffe. He failed both times. I can't stand him but had Kiffin stayed 4-5 years things would have looked a lot different. Or if Cutcliffe would have taken over as head coach. The game passed Phil by no different than with coach majors
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2001, 2003, 2004, 2006 and 2007 were good to great teams, I wouldn't call them "regressed"
 
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#69
#69
vols40 said:
About the only thing he did right was fire Phil. The only reason 07 went like it did was David Cutcliffe
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Fulmer was done. I wish heā€™d done the right thing and stepped down, handing the reigns to Cutcliffe. It wouldā€™ve been best for the program. But Fulmer is about Fulmer. Thatā€™s how he got the job (and AD position) to begin with.
 
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#70
#70
NighthawkVol said:
Fulmer was done. I wish heā€™d done the right thing and stepped down, handing the reigns to Cutcliffe. It wouldā€™ve been best for the program. But Fulmer is about Fulmer. Thatā€™s how he got the job (and AD position) to begin with.
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Iā€™m sure this is what you would have done
 
#71
#71
Carl Pickens said:
Iā€™m sure this is what you would have done
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Weird response that says nothing on the topic, but okay.

Plenty of coaches have stepped down when they were done and it was best for the program to hand the reigns to a sensible successor.

Hell, many said Majors shouldā€™ve ā€œdone the right thingā€ and stepped down, handing the reigns to Fulmer back in 1992. That was coming off of 3 straight major bowl games and SEC championships in 2 of the last 3 years. The program was in the best shape it had been in since Dickey left. Fulmer, on the other hand, was coming off of 2 losing seasons in his last 4, with the 2 non-losing seasons being the 2 with Cutcliffe as OC.

To be fair, Cut had just completed Year 1 at Duke and may not have left them so soon. But I think heā€™d have taken the UT job if it werenā€™t betraying Fulmer (and if offered). And the course of UT football wouldā€™ve been drastically better.
 
#72
#72
unfrozencvmanvol said:
The fanbase wanted it. Not everybody of course, but Volnation walked off the plank voluntarily. Hamilton gave the people what they wanted.
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As I have said most of our fanbase does not know anything about football. Most of our country is idiots Anyone who wanted Fulmer fired and Kiffin hired is a moron of football and probably life who is broke after two divorces. Hopefully some of them have smartened up.
 
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#73
#73
TheDeeble said:
And as another example of Fulmer's bad decision making, he advocated and fought for Mike Hamilton to be the AD and is a primary reason why he was selected. If Fulmer has said no, Hamilton would not be the AD.
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No doubt CFF made some bad decisions but that does not excuse the way in which he was let go and he should have been given the chance to make things right. CPF is a good man maybe too susceptible to political stuff but he always tried to do right by Tennessee and he deserved better. The idiots (usually bandwagon betting crew) upset with Heup are the same crowd that disrespected Fulmer and are bad mouthing Tony V. Frick 'em. For some people it goes deeper. We owe those who came before and those who are to come. If you are in it for the now then GTFO.
 
#75
#75
I still say that Fulmer started to let up when Steve Spurrier left Florida to go pro in 2001. SS kept Fulmer on his toes, pushed him in a sense. I think he got a little lazy thinking he had the SEC in his back pocket with SS gone. Go back and look, cell phones in the locker room at halftime, etc.

Phil was able to rebound for 2 years when coach Cut came back, but it reverted back after Cut went to Duke.

I somewhat believe that Fulmer started to realize he was not Teflon near the end of his tenure with the recruiting class he had coming in. Too little too late. Kiffin ran off T Boyd to Clemson which started Dabos assent to a great 8-10 year run.

I still believe that if D Dooley had hired any half way competent DC in his last year, he would have coached a few more years. That offense was really good, loaded with NFL talent. However, when you have to outscore Troy and have the last possession to win, you know you have trouble.
 
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