Twenty Long Years

#28
#28
I loved Fulmer as a coach. He provided some of the greatest moments in my life from a UT football perspective. That being said, the problem with keeping Fulmer is that Cutcliffe wasn't staying regardless of offers because he wanted to be a HC. Fulmer struggled with other OCs when Cut wasn't there. Clawson didn't really get a fair shake as OC with only one season, but the offense clearly wasn't the same without Cut.
No doubt Hamilton and Co screwed the pooch during and after his tenure. That seemed inevitable because he was almost completely inept as an AD.
 
#30
#30
vols40 said:
Hire good offensive coordinators. He messed that up twice. Appreciate everything he did for Tennessee except the run at AD. He was out of his league there. But losing to Wyoming after going to the seccg in 08 it was time
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I was at that Wyoming game. It was like a funeral. The decision had already been made.

But no, it wasn't time. He had plenty of great years left....it was a panic fire and it ultimately set TN football back at least a couple of decades.
 
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#31
#31
JONATHAN CROMPTON says CJH is our James Franklin?

Wait, what?

TF does that even mean?

If it means anything, what weight does it carry coming from one of the most questionable football minds to ever don the Big Orange?

I love the guy because he gave his all, but let’s not confuse that with a keen X’s and O’s acumen.
 
#32
#32
There’s a solid argument that quick triggers caused by too many cooks in the kitchen are responsible for much of the chaos across the sport, including within our own program before 2021.

Hell, the General went 9-9-2 in 1947-48.

Imagine if they’d fired him before the ‘49 season!
 
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#33
#33
luthervol said:
I was at that Wyoming game. It was like a funeral. The decision had already been made.

But no, it wasn't time. He had plenty of great years left....it was a panic fire and it ultimately set TN football back at least a couple of decades.
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His teams regressed every year after 98. He had two chances to hire OC not named David Cutcliffe. He failed both times. I can't stand him but had Kiffin stayed 4-5 years things would have looked a lot different. Or if Cutcliffe would have taken over as head coach. The game passed Phil by no different than with coach majors
 
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#34
#34
VFL-82-JP said:
Hasn't been 20 years. In 2007 we played for the SEC championship. Didn't win it, no, but we were in the hunt. A 10-win season.

Folks who like to hate on Fulmer love to take away his last four years, as if they were all losing seasons. Or his last eight years. Or everything after the national championship. But that's just haters being haters.

We were relevant right up until 2008.

And Josh arrived in 2021 to begin righting the ship.

So it's not 20 years. It is 13: 2008 to 2020, inclusive.

Go Vols!
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He was 29-21 with two losing seasons. If Josh did that, he'd be run out of town.

He had the most established program in the SEC after Spurrier left in 2001 and did zilch with it.
 
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#35
#35
#1fulmerite said:
We only beat who we are supposed to (most of the time). Always (except for Bama twice) lose to who we are supposed to and one (other) game a year we were supposed to win.

Being mediocre around here is what lead to our twenty-year walk in the wilderness. That’s what winning 3/4 of the time gets you.
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What was his winning percentage without David Cutcliffe?
 
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#36
#36
vols40 said:
His teams regressed every year after 98. He had two chances to hire OC not named David Cutcliffe. He failed both times. I can't stand him but had Kiffin stayed 4-5 years things would have looked a lot different. Or if Cutcliffe would have taken over as head coach. The game passed Phil by no different than with coach majors
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I know there are two basic groups on this issue.
I am firmly in the group that believes it was wrongheaded and extremely detrimental to the program.
Cutcliffe refused to consider coming back to TN because of the sh1tty way they treated Fulmer.
 
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#37
#37
luthervol said:
Cutcliffe refused to consider coming back to TN because of the sh1tty way they treated Fulmer.
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This is completely false. He was going to come back after Kiffin bolted, but Mike Hamilton demanded that he keep Kippy Brown on staff. Cutcliffe protege at the time, Scotty Montgomery, was his wide receivers coach at Duke. He wasn’t coming to Tennessee unless he could bring Montgomery with him.
 
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#38
#38
VFL-82-JP said:
Hasn't been 20 years. In 2007 we played for the SEC championship. Didn't win it, no, but we were in the hunt. A 10-win season.

Folks who like to hate on Fulmer love to take away his last four years, as if they were all losing seasons. Or his last eight years. Or everything after the national championship. But that's just haters being haters.

We were relevant right up until 2008.

And Josh arrived in 2021 to begin righting the ship.

So it's not 20 years. It is 13: 2008 to 2020, inclusive.

Go Vols!
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Yes. This is the time frame I always use for the ‘dark year’. Just a little less than 15 years. To be fair, I include 2021 so 14 years total.
 
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#39
#39
luthervol said:
I was always of the mindset that firing Fulmer was the wrong thing to do. He had at least another 10 years left in him. Had he been able to leave with the dignity he deserved, the replacement and the ensuing years would have likely have seen us remain at the top.
TN unnecessarily sacrificed a ton of goodwill that ultimate hurt the program.
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As a fulmer fan, it was time. The game had passed him up.
 
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#40
#40
Fulmer's fate was sealed when he brought Cutcliffe back. Having Cutcliffe back as the offensive coordinator was a short-term boost that helped Tennessee perform in 2006 and 2007, but it also GREATLY reinforced the narrative that Fulmer couldn't have success without him.

Had the Clawfense not driven the Vols off a cliff in 2008, Fulmer probably would have survived a bit longer, but it was incredibly bad look to see Tennessee so offensively inept without Cutcliffe calling plays and organizing the offense. You take that bad look, plus Florida winning a title under Urban Meyer and Alabama ripping off that undefeated run for most of 2008, and it was all over. Tennessee looked like it was being left in the dust - probably because it was being left in the dust.

We'll never know if Fulmer could have turned it around. but considering how dominant Alabama became starting in 2009 I'm skeptical he would have made it much longer. Not without doing something no one could do in that era - beat Nick Saban consistently.
 
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#41
#41
zjcvols said:
He was 29-21 with two losing seasons. If Josh did that, he'd be run out of town.

He had the most established program in the SEC after Spurrier left in 2001 and did zilch with it.
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Imagine comparing those two. One coach competed for SEC titles and won a natty. The other hasn’t sniffed either by a long shot. When Josh does those things, many will think he deserves a much longer leash.
 
#43
#43
kcvols1 said:
JONATHAN CROMPTON says CJH is our James Franklin?

Wait, what?

TF does that even mean?

If it means anything, what weight does it carry coming from one of the most questionable football minds to ever don the Big Orange?

I love the guy because he gave his all, but let’s not confuse that with a keen X’s and O’s acumen.
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I think he’s saying that he’s an 8-9 wins type coach… maybe gets to a 10 win season here and there. But not going to lead us to greatness. Not a perfect comparison but I also think it’s a fair assessment at this point. Time will tell bc he’s going to be given time.
 
#44
#44
luthervol said:
I know there are two basic groups on this issue.
I am firmly in the group that believes it was wrongheaded and extremely detrimental to the program.
Cutcliffe refused to consider coming back to TN because of the sh1tty way they treated Fulmer.
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Lol. No. If you want to say they were very close and David made his decision on that then maybe. Regardless Phil was given a shot of hiring an OC after 07 when David went to Duke. He hired Dave Clawsen and never let him coach the offense so we'll never know how that would have gone. The other was when he promoted Randy Sanders and that was the wrong decision as well. Phil cried like a baby but it was definitely time.
 
#46
#46
Boston Vol said:
This is completely false. He was going to come back after Kiffin bolted, but Mike Hamilton demanded that he keep Kippy Brown on staff. Cutcliffe protege at the time, Scotty Montgomery, was his wide receivers coach at Duke. He wasn’t coming to Tennessee unless he could bring Montgomery with him.
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Which is hilarious because for reasons unbeknownst to anyone, Derek Dooley didn't have the same demand!
 
#48
#48
EastTNVol6240 said:
Imagine comparing those two. One coach competed for SEC titles and won a natty. The other hasn’t sniffed either by a long shot. When Josh does those things, many will think he deserves a much longer leash.
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The league is not the same as it was when Phil was coach. We have increased the amount of teams that are legitimate contenders any given year. We also play more league games. No, it it much, much more difficult to win in the SEC now. So much so that it is almost not comparable with 20 years ago.
 
#49
#49
vols40 said:
Nice post. It could have started by saying After losing our homecoming game to Wyoming the University of Tennessee "retired" Phillip Fulmer. Very good take
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That would be an inaccurate take.

Fulmer was informed that he wouldnt be the coach after the season finished, the week of the Wyoming game.
 
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#50
#50
Volnanza said:
The league is not the same as it was when Phil was coach. We have increased the amount of teams that are legitimate contenders any given year. We also play more league games. No, it it much, much more difficult to win in the SEC now. So much so that it is almost not comparable with 20 years ago.
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That argument goes both ways. Such as recruiting. Money recruits now. Fulmer was a hell of recruiter without writing checks for millions. Pros and cons to both eras.

Facts remain the same. Fulmer won what he won. There was still only 1 winner per year. Josh has nothing to speak of yet. Hope that changes.
 
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