Trump, Mussolini, Nazis and the 2nd Amendment

#105
#105
volinbham said:
So if I say gene therapy is the best treatment for cancer you'd be puzzled why I didn't say not having cancer is the best treatment for cancer?
Click to expand...

The best defense is to prevent the cancer in the first place. Your original statement said defense, not treatment. Treatment presumes the cancer has already taken hold. Defense does not.
 
#106
#106
RobsPics said:
The best defense is to prevent the cancer in the first place. Your original statement said defense, not treatment. Treatment presumes the cancer has already taken hold. Defense does not.
Click to expand...

So if I said the best way for citizens to overthrow a fascist government is if said citizens are armed then are you happy?

Since we are critiquing analogies; given one cannot consciously prevent cancer I'd argue that your first statement is incorrect too.
 
#107
#107
1) He is probably closer to an isolationist. Favorable Trade deals in exchange for Millitary support. Absolutely no "preemptive wars". Tough immigration laws.
2) probably an increase in military budgets of those countries we have been backing
3) MAD
4) see #1
5) he isn't teaching radical Islam
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#108
#108
volinbham said:
So if I said the best way for citizens to overthrow a fascist government is if said citizens are armed then are you happy?
Click to expand...

I always encourage people to change their statements/positions based upon newly discovered evidence.

volinbham said:
Since we are critiquing analogies; given one cannot consciously prevent cancer I'd argue that your first statement is incorrect too.
Click to expand...

Untrue, one can consciously take steps to prevent cancer. Doesn't always work, but that doesn't mean preventive measures don't exist.
 
#109
#109
volinbham said:
I'm not blaming the media - I have friends who've bought into the meme. I just think it's dumb.

Trump is tweeting Nazi imagery? What the picture where a couple people have their hands up? You think they are doing the Nazi salute and/or Trump wants to secretly communicate to groups that would like that?

You are the people I'm talking about
Click to expand...

No. I'm talking about the tweet over the summer. But here's a greatest hits list of some of (in my eyes) the most racist things to come from the trump campaign:

November- Trump tweets out made up racial statistics claiming 81% of whites are killed by blacks
Trump's Pants on Fire tweet that blacks killed 81% of white homicide victims | PolitiFact

August-Trump staffer calls Al Sharpton's daughter a "N-!" On Facebook.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/31/politics/trump-adviser-sam-nunberg-facebook-posts/

July-Trump tweets US flag with Nazi soldiers on it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...diers-inside-the-u-s-flag-then-deletes-tweet/

So once again: it's not the media's fault. It's not the liberals. It's Donald trumps fault that he's constantly compared to these people.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#110
#110
RobsPics said:
I always encourage people to change their statements/positions based upon newly discovered evidence.
Click to expand...

I reworded a statement but did not change my position and there is no newly discovered evidence in this case.

I'm still not sure if you are just playing semantics police or didn't understand my point.



RobsPics said:
Untrue, one can consciously take steps to prevent cancer. Doesn't always work, but that doesn't mean preventive measures don't exist.
Click to expand...

You can take steps to lower your risk but you can't prevent cancer; unless you have some scientific breakthough I'm unaware of.

Defense against cancer can also include treatment.
 
#111
#111
Vol8188 said:
No. I'm talking about the tweet over the summer. But here's a greatest hits list of some of (in my eyes) the most racist things to come from the trump campaign:

November- Trump tweets out made up racial statistics claiming 81% of whites are killed by blacks
Trump's Pants on Fire tweet that blacks killed 81% of white homicide victims | PolitiFact

August-Trump staffer calls Al Sharpton's daughter a "N-!" On Facebook.
Trump campaign fires staffer over Facebook posts - CNNPolitics.com

July-Trump tweets US flag with Nazi soldiers on it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...diers-inside-the-u-s-flag-then-deletes-tweet/

So once again: it's not the media's fault. It's not the liberals. It's Donald trumps fault that he's constantly compared to these people.
Click to expand...

No, you are the one making the connection to Nazism. The first two incidences are race related but have no connection to Nazism.

The flag one is a gaffe, a mistake. Unless you are suggesting he intentionally had Nazi soldiers in it. I bet you'd never know those were Nazi soldiers if someone didn't point it out to you.

No sane person would conclude Trump is like Hitler because of what you posted.
 
#112
#112
volinbham said:
I reworded a statement but did not change my position and there is no newly discovered evidence in this case.

I'm still not sure if you are just playing semantics police or didn't understand my point.
Click to expand...

The newly discovered evidence is the knowledge that the 2nd amendment is not the best defense since the best defense is to not elect the fascist government in the first place.

volinbham said:
You can take steps to lower your risk but you can't prevent cancer; unless you have some scientific breakthough I'm unaware of.

Defense against cancer can also include treatment.
Click to expand...


Lowering the risk against cancer is a preventive measure against cancer. No one said preventive measures are always perfect.
 
#113
#113
volinbham said:
The reference to 1917 is that conditions there led to the rise of communist leaders. The argument made about Trump is that his rise is equivalent to 1930s Europe so I'm just saying why not apply similar analysis to Sanders?

WRT the bold - you directly say that Sanders is excluding one group - upper class. They are the problem to be fixed and the source of problems for the people.

Sanders is catering to angry poor and middle class people who think the rich have it too good and are making them/keep them from advancing.
Click to expand...

There's a difference between demanding the rich (of all colors and creeds) and powerful to pay more in taxes and not abuse the economic and political system, and attacking marginalized groups in America. At least to me, there is a difference.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#114
#114
RobsPics said:
The newly discovered evidence is the knowledge that the 2nd amendment is not the best defense since the best defense is to not elect the fascist government in the first place.
Click to expand...

That's not evidence. It's a conclusion you've drawn based on semantic argument.




RobsPics said:
Lowering the risk against cancer is a preventive measure against cancer. No one said preventive measures are always perfect.
Click to expand...

Oh dear lord.
 
#115
#115
RobsPics said:
The newly discovered evidence is the knowledge that the 2nd amendment is not the best defense since the best defense is to not elect the fascist government in the first place.




Lowering the risk against cancer is a preventive measure against cancer. No one said preventive measures are always perfect.
Click to expand...

No one said the way our government is elected is perfect nor how those that come to power will wield that power. The 2A can be seen as both a preventative (makes things more difficult to come off the rails in the first place) and a treatment for meeting force with force in a worst case scenario.
 
#116
#116
volinbham said:
No, you are the one making the connection to Nazism. The first two incidences are race related but have no connection to Nazism.

The flag one is a gaffe, a mistake. Unless you are suggesting he intentionally had Nazi soldiers in it. I bet you'd never know those were Nazi soldiers if someone didn't point it out to you.

No sane person would conclude Trump is like Hitler because of what you posted.
Click to expand...

I think a sane person would conclude at a minimum that he's very likely a racist.

Throw the Nazi tweet in with his racism, his white nationalism, and his ex's claims that he keeps a book of hitler's speeches by his bed:

And it doesn't take a genius to make the connection.
 
#117
#117
The beauty of politics is that the common folks don't matter. The rich want us to think we do, but the real reality is that everyone that runs for office has an agenda. That agenda doesn't include you or me, it includes them.

Vote for whoever you want, it won't change your life.
 
#118
#118
G0 BIG 0RANGE said:
There's a difference between demanding the rich (of all colors and creeds) and powerful to pay more in taxes and not abuse the economic and political system, and attacking marginalized groups in America. At least to me, there is a difference.
Click to expand...

I get that and would suggest your qualifier explains why you see them as different. You believe the rich are abusing the economic and political system so calls to stop that seem logical.

Some people believe illegal immigrants are abusing the system. Some people believe Islamic immigrants perpetrate acts of terror. For them, calls to stop illegal immigration or halt the influx of Syrian refugees seem logical.

Common across these views is the idea that some subgroup is the problem and candidates are mobilizing citizens against them.

The difference seems to be the "marginalized" perspective. It's okay to go after the rich since they aren't "marginalized".

I'm not defending any of the above positions. Just pointing out the core commonalities.

Yes the rich will survive but viewing them collectively as the problem is being prejudiced. The argument seems to be it's okay to be prejudiced against them because they aren't marginalized.
 
#119
#119
I had to get a different job because of 0bamacare. Now Bernie Sanders wants to cancel my family's health care plan so yeah they do make a difference
 
#120
#120
Vol8188 said:
I think a sane person would conclude at a minimum that he's very likely a racist.

Throw the Nazi tweet in with his racism, his white nationalism, and his ex's claims that he keeps a book of hitler's speeches by his bed:

And it doesn't take a genius to make the connection.
Click to expand...

I would not characterized what you posted as a Nazi tweet.

When Rubio mistakenly used a picture of a Canadian city in an ad was it a Canadian ad?

Is he racist? I don't know.

Is comparing him to Hitler a logical conclusion - no effin' way but it hasn't stopped you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#121
#121
volinbham said:
That's not evidence. It's a conclusion you've drawn based on semantic argument.
Click to expand...

Evidence: "the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid."



The newly discovered evidence (to you) is that the 2nd amendment is not the best defense against a fascist government. And that fact has been proven true given your changed statement.
 
#122
#122
Vol8188 said:
I think a sane person would conclude at a minimum that he's very likely a racist.

Throw the Nazi tweet in with his racism, his white nationalism, and his ex's claims that he keeps a book of hitler's speeches by his bed:

And it doesn't take a genius to make the connection.
Click to expand...

Obviously
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#123
#123
hndog609 said:
No one said the way our government is elected is perfect nor how those that come to power will wield that power. The 2A can be seen as both a preventative (makes things more difficult to come off the rails in the first place) and a treatment for meeting force with force in a worst case scenario.
Click to expand...

I never claimed the 2nd amendment is neither preventative nor treatment. I claimed the 2nd amendment is not the best defense.
 
#124
#124
hog88 said:
How is it not? In both instances you have the government dictating what a person can do with their property. With anti-gentrification laws you are doing worse, you are slowing appreciation or in some cases forcing an owner to hold a depreciating asset.
Click to expand...

I had to do it because private realty companies were purposefully buying out properties around my houses, allowing them to ghoul and deteriorate, and lowering my property values. Once I bit the bullet and moved to a new hood, those houses were swarmed by shifty contractors and sold for thrice their actual value mere months later.

Government is bad, but a greedy private sector can absolutely be worse.

I respect your opinion, hog, but you can't sway me on this. It's my bread and butter. I've had to help form neighborhood initiatives to boycott development companies and quite literally force "organic" growth. It's a huge reason why I left knoxville. Real estate 'barons' were actively poaching east side properties so I couldn't get my hands on them. For any 865 folks, see the stark rise in properties bridging Park Ridge and 4th/Gill. You can use Trulia to see the spike between '10 and '13.
 
#125
#125
volinbham said:
I would not characterized what you posted as a Nazi tweet.

When Rubio mistakenly used a picture of a Canadian city in an ad was it a Canadian ad?

Is he racist? I don't know.

Is comparing him to Hitler a logical conclusion - no effin' way but it hasn't stopped you.
Click to expand...

So he's just a nationalist who keeps hitler speeches by his bed, untinentionally tweets out images with Nazi soldiers, intentionally tweets made up racial propaganda, and has racists in high ranking positions within his campaign?

That's a hell of a lot of coincidences. Where there's that much smoke, there's fire.

At best he's a bigot who probably admires hitler as a leader and public speaker.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement

Back
Top