Troubling trend...

#151
#151
volbeast33 said:
People consume themselves with three point shooting.....that's all we seem to be giving up to the teams we are beating....the teams we have lost to have been able to get inside as well....excellent planning and coaching by CDT
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It's a problem that needs to be fixed going forward. It's already cost us one game and nearly another. That's why it's so baffling to me because Tyndall is an excellent coach. I'm not sure how continually giving open 3 pt looks to the other team's hot hand/best shooter every game matches up with the other excellent coaching moves and adjustments Tyndall makes. Really doesn't make sense to me but maybe it's a part of his defensive plan. It's just very frustrating to watch.
 
#152
#152
wtorange said:
But they got very few FT's and only had 3 offensive rebounds. This is how we can win.
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ETSU came in as one of the best 3pt shooting teams in the country. They have little to nothing else, no inside presence. How about adjusting to take away or at least make a dent in their strength, 3pt shooting, so that rather than sweating out a late second half win, you can maybe win a little more comfortably against a team you should've won very comfortably against. Letting 1 guy drain 7 3pters in one half because you continually give him clean looks doesn't seem like a good plan and it was why we only led by 1 at the half. Continuing to give guys open looks from 3 in the second half is also why we needed a 12-0 run to erase a 6 pt deficit late in the game to far inferior team.

I'm glad they got the W, I'm impressed with the team's effort and Donnie's coaching acumen. But defending the 3, or lack thereof, is a weakness that we have to improve on imo.
 
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#153
#153
KBVol said:
It's a problem that needs to be fixed going forward. It's already cost us one game and nearly another. That's why it's so baffling to me because Tyndall is an excellent coach. I'm not sure how continually giving open 3 pt looks to the other team's hot hand/best shooter every game matches up with the other excellent coaching moves and adjustments Tyndall makes. Really doesn't make sense to me but maybe it's a part of his defensive plan. It's just very frustrating to watch.
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He said himself that they're having to sag the defense more than he would like to protect the young, undersized posts. When you're starting guys down low who are ultra skinny true freshmen or are maybe 6'6" you have to give up some things to protect them. I think Tyndall had done a great coaching job to get so much or of this mishmash of players so early.
 
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#154
#154
jjay2518 said:
He said himself that they're having to sag the defense more than he would like to protect the young, undersized posts. When you're starting guys down low who are ultra skinny true freshmen or are maybe 6'6" you have to give up some things to protect them. I think Tyndall had done a great coaching job to get so much or of this mishmash of players so early.
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I get that, we're young and smallish in the post. However, ETSU is a self-described (by their coach) a one-dimensional offensive team. They shoot the 3 in volume and they shoot it for a high percentage. None of their post players were gonna hurt us today. So all I'm saying is, let's make an adjustment on a guy banging 3s off open looks sooner than we did today....maybe after 2 or 3 and not 7. I know Tyndall is gonna have get it done with smoke and mirrors this year, but I just can't see how letting guys go wild from 3 every single game is a strategy. Perhaps it is.

Put it this way....if we were getting killed on the boards every game or averaging 20-25 turnovers every night, would we not identify those things as significant weaknesses and discuss it on here as something thst the team really needs to fix for us to improve? That's all I and others are doing here.
 
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#155
#155
KBVol said:
I get that, we're young and smallish in the post. However, ETSU is a self-described (by their coach) a one-dimensional offensive team. They shoot the 3 in volume and they shoot it for a high percentage. None of their post players were gonna hurt us today. So all I'm saying is, let's make an adjustment on a guy banging 3s off open looks sooner than we did today....maybe after 2 or 3 and not 7. I know Tyndall is gonna have get it done with smoke and mirrors this year, but I just can't see how letting guys go wild from 3 every single game is a strategy. Perhaps it is.

Put it this way....if we were getting killed on the boards every game or averaging 20-25 turnovers every night, would we not identify those things as significant weaknesses and discuss it on here as something thst the team really needs to fix for us to improve? That's all I and others are doing here.
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I don't care if teams hit threes like crazy against us as long as we keep winning. Much has been made about this three point thing, but that's just the way it's going to be this year, and it got us an OOC record that is hard to complain about.
 
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#156
#156
KBVol said:
It's a problem that needs to be fixed going forward. It's already cost us one game and nearly another. That's why it's so baffling to me because Tyndall is an excellent coach. I'm not sure how continually giving open 3 pt looks to the other team's hot hand/best shooter every game matches up with the other excellent coaching moves and adjustments Tyndall makes. Really doesn't make sense to me but maybe it's a part of his defensive plan. It's just very frustrating to watch.
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What game has it cost us?
 
#160
#160
Its already been said but when there is obvious deficiencies in you're defense from a personnel standpoint you have to pick your poison so to speak. And this is how Donnie has chosen to play. It makes sense to say we need to play out on shooters more and not pack it in so much but my question is if we did that how does it affect what we are trying to accomplish on defense.do we create fewer turnovers or do we get back cut more on defense. I don't know but for this year until we have defensively stoppers down low I believe this is how we are going to play. Also we only have so many fouls to give down low and the guards helping out may be intended to keep ours bigs out of foul trouble
 
#161
#161
NashVOL93 said:
I've literally never seen so much *****ing and moaning about a team that's clearly overachieving.
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*****ing and moaning? Just pointing out a team weakness on a message board. It's gonna come back to bite em imo. Love the overall job Tyndall and the team is doing and that they've been able to overcome the deficiency in most games so far. Just think if they're going to improve anywhere, thats the most glaring defensive weakness they have and that if they get it cleaned up they have a much better chance to make some tournament noise.
 
#162
#162
KBVol said:
*****ing and moaning? Just pointing out a team weakness on a message board. It's gonna come back to bite em imo. Love the overall job Tyndall and the team is doing and that they've been able to overcome the deficiency in most games so far. Just think if they're going to improve anywhere, thats the most glaring defensive weakness they have and that if they get it cleaned up they have a much better chance to make some tournament noise.
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If we had the personnel to clean it up it would make sense to however we don't have that. We are going to play the same way. If we start chasing shooters we are going to get tremendously challenged down low and end up with guards playing in the post. Once the league starts we will be undersized down low against every team we play. I think the Coach wants the guys to learn the defense and stick with it because he has no choice.
 
#163
#163
KBVol said:
*****ing and moaning? Just pointing out a team weakness on a message board. It's gonna come back to bite em imo. Love the overall job Tyndall and the team is doing and that they've been able to overcome the deficiency in most games so far. Just think if they're going to improve anywhere, thats the most glaring defensive weakness they have and that if they get it cleaned up they have a much better chance to make some tournament noise.
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I mean, I watch these games too, and believe me, I'm hardly enthused by our tendency to get drilled by anyone who's ever made a 3. But we're 8-4, and that's something considering what Tyndall's working with right now. The man clearly knows his basketball, and he's coaching this team above their talent level. I feel pretty confident the perimeter guarding will improve with time and recruiting. And this team is fun to watch. We'll take our lumps this year with a young roster, but the future is certainly bright and I think that should be cause for excitement.
 
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#164
#164
KBVol said:
Marquette imo. Freshman guard who averages 11 went for 30, half of which were from 3. One could also argue the NCState game....one kid had 8 threes.
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That's not what beat us in either game though.....the Marquette game we only scored 58 points and allowed them to get inside on us......same thing with NC State they were able to beat us down low as well....if we give up the deep ball but don't allow anything else we win....just like Mercer, guy went off from three but we shut everyone else down and won....with our lack of bigs.....it's how we have to play to maximize success.
 
#165
#165
volbeast33 said:
That's not what beat us in either game though.....the Marquette game we only scored 58 points and allowed them to get inside on us......same thing with NC State they were able to beat us down low as well....if we give up the deep ball but don't allow anything else we win....just like Mercer, guy went off from three but we shut everyone else down and won....with our lack of bigs.....it's how we have to play to maximize success.
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In the Marquette game, on more than one occasion we cut a 7-8 point lead to 1-2 in the second half, and the next time down the kid drilled open looks from 3 and spurred runs where they quickly built the lead back up to 8 or so. I just remember thinking that if we would've played better D on that guy we could've kept momentum and won the game. Those 3s were back breakers and, IMHO, were what kept us from maybe seizing control.

As far as NCState, the story of the game was the kid who averages 13ppg, going for a career-high 33 on 9 fgs....8 of which were from 3. It sure felt like they hurt us more that game from the perimeter than from inside.

Look, bottom line is, in virtually game we've played this year, we've allowed an opposing player to go ballistic from 3.....in nearly every game the opposing team has had a hot hand who we've given up 4-8 three pointers to. Perhaps that's just the type of defense this team has to play given out personnel deficiencies inside. I just can't ever recall seeing anything quite like it and as a fan watching the games it perplexing to me why it appears to be a certain as death and taxes to happen everytime we take the floor.

All that being said, I think Tyndall is doing an excellent job in virtually every other facet with the team. Definitely glad to see an 8-4 record right now.
 
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#166
#166
you get it, Donnie so far appears to be good with the X's and O's....its just like texas hold-em, he is playing the hand he has been dealt
wtorange said:
If we had the personnel to clean it up it would make sense to however we don't have that. We are going to play the same way. If we start chasing shooters we are going to get tremendously challenged down low and end up with guards playing in the post. Once the league starts we will be undersized down low against every team we play. I think the Coach wants the guys to learn the defense and stick with it because he has no choice.
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#168
#168
KBVol said:
In the Marquette game, on more than one occasion we cut a 7-8 point lead to 1-2 in the second half, and the next time down the kid drilled open looks from 3 and spurred runs where they quickly built the lead back up to 8 or so. I just remember thinking that if we would've played better D on that guy we could've kept momentum and won the game. Those 3s were back breakers and, IMHO, were what kept us from maybe seizing control.

As far as NCState, the story of the game was the kid who averages 13ppg, going for a career-high 33 on 9 fgs....8 of which were from 3. It sure felt like they hurt us more that game from the perimeter than from inside.

Look, bottom line is, in virtually game we've played this year, we've allowed an opposing player to go ballistic from 3.....in nearly every game the opposing team has had a hot hand who we've given up 4-8 three pointers to. Perhaps that's just the type of defense this team has to play given out personnel deficiencies inside. I just can't ever recall seeing anything quite like it and as a fan watching the games it perplexing to me why it appears to be a certain as death and taxes to happen everytime we take the floor.

All that being said, I think Tyndall is doing an excellent job in virtually every other facet with the team. Definitely glad to see an 8-4 record right now.
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That's true but the only thing that will fix it is for their to be a 6'10" 250 plus guy that is good at basketball hanging out on campus...we are defending down low with a skinny low rated true freshman and a guy recruited to play PG for us. It's bc of this that the opponents increased 3 pt %......I still don't think it's why we lost.....we have won all the games that we have made one dimensional no matter how one guy lit us up....the ones we have lost have been the teams that have also been able to get inside the zone.
 
#169
#169
KBVol said:
It's a problem that needs to be fixed going forward. It's already cost us one game and nearly another. That's why it's so baffling to me because Tyndall is an excellent coach. I'm not sure how continually giving open 3 pt looks to the other team's hot hand/best shooter every game matches up with the other excellent coaching moves and adjustments Tyndall makes. Really doesn't make sense to me but maybe it's a part of his defensive plan. It's just very frustrating to watch.
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He has explained this on numerous occasions. Here it is again:
Originally Posted by SeniorDrill View Post
Here's my main point! ETSU is #2 in the nation in 3 point field goals made. If we beat them, then the constant drumbeat about us not defending the 3 is meaningless. According to Coach T, if they bomb away more than 40% of the time based on his 8 years of coaching, his teams win 82% of the time. Those are pretty good odds that most anyone would take! If we win, the other teams can make the 3's until hell freezes over and it will make no difference. They won't be scoring inside, won't get offensive rebounds, and they won't be shooting free throws.
Analysis of Donnie's statement:
1) ETSU shot 41% of their shots from 3 point range.
2) Make 3s until hell freezes over. They made 13, the most in several years by any team.
3) Won't be scoring inside- 7 buckets inside the arc.
4) Only shot 9 free throws making 8.
5) Had 3 offensive rebounds.
6) Tennessee wins by 10!
7) Chalk up another win to the 82%!
 
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#170
#170
SeniorDrill said:
He has explained this on numerous occasions. Here it is again:
Originally Posted by SeniorDrill View Post
Here's my main point! ETSU is #2 in the nation in 3 point field goals made. If we beat them, then the constant drumbeat about us not defending the 3 is meaningless. According to Coach T, if they bomb away more than 40% of the time based on his 8 years of coaching, his teams win 82% of the time. Those are pretty good odds that most anyone would take! If we win, the other teams can make the 3's until hell freezes over and it will make no difference. They won't be scoring inside, won't get offensive rebounds, and they won't be shooting free throws.
Analysis of Donnie's statement:
1) ETSU shot 41% of their shots from 3 point range.
2) Make 3s until hell freezes over. They made 13, the most in several years by any team.
3) Won't be scoring inside- 7 buckets inside the arc.
4) Only shot 9 free throws making 8.
5) Had 3 offensive rebounds.
6) Tennessee wins by 10!
7) Chalk up another win to the 82%!
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The ETSU game doesn't really support the theory because we played extended defense and still gave up 13 3s. Won't see many teams in the SEC as weak as ETSU was inside where we can win with 5 guard line ups.
82% of 18 games is 14.76 wins. Are you a betting man SD?
 
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#171
#171
calban said:
The ETSU game doesn't really support the theory because we played extended defense and still gave up 13 3s. Won't see many teams in the SEC as weak as ETSU was inside where we can win with 5 guard line ups.
82% of 18 games is 14.76 wins. Are you a betting man SD?
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You must think all of the SEC teams are gonna take 40 percent of their shots beyond the arc, huh?
 
#172
#172
SeniorDrill said:
You must think all of the SEC teams are gonna take 40 percent of their shots beyond the arc, huh?
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Maybe I misread your logic.
From what you said, Donnie's sagging zone forces teams to shoot 40% from 3pt.
Let them shoot 3s until hell freezes over.
What did I miss?
 
#174
#174
calban said:
Maybe I misread your logic.
From what you said, Donnie's sagging zone forces teams to shoot 40% from 3pt.
Let them shoot 3s until hell freezes over.
What did I miss?
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I'm hoping he meant to say make instead of take. Otherwise that's just dumb.
 
#175
#175
calban said:
Maybe I misread your logic.
From what you said, Donnie's sagging zone forces teams to shoot 40% from 3pt.
Let them shoot 3s until hell freezes over.
What did I miss?
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Donnie Tyndall has said repeatedly that the goal is to force teams to shoot >40% behind the arc. If they do, his teams win 82% of the time. As the newest article says, the full court press is designed to take 10-15 seconds off of the shot clock and not give the opposing guards a chance to figure out the defense so they end up launching from 3. They don't go to the foul line as much and they don't get as many offensive rebounds if they do. It also says that fans should expect opposing teams to shoot a lot of 3's. That is by design! Good enough response, BTO?
 
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