Treyvon Paulk dismissed from program

#576
#576
American Pig said:
Still no answers to my questions or anything of relevance. Why not?

Why do you spin everything and answer nothing? Do you ever hold yourself intellectually accountable?

You can't engage a single thing I argued on the merits. Calling me ignorant is pure BS.
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What specifically do you want addressed?

I understand you don't believe in people being personally accountable for their actions, but I do not share that opinion. Treyvon made a choice to act. Now he has to deal with the consequences. That's called reality.
 
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#577
#577
American Pig said:
Still no answers to my questions or anything of relevance. Why not?

Why do you spin everything and answer nothing? Do you ever hold yourself intellectually accountable?

You can't engage a single thing I argued on the merits. Calling me ignorant is pure BS.
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All you're doing is squawking keywords and demanding that we address an argument that you haven't even presented...unless it's your proposition that woman beaters should only have to deal with people that care about them. :eek:lol: I think you're bored and being purposely ridiculous because you broke your leg and it itches under that cast...when they break that open...take a bath first thing (dead skin)...and don't be shocked at the murkin on your knee...just shave it. :yuck:
 
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#578
#578
American Pig said:
Politically correct solutions are easy and cowardly.
Paulk's girlfriend understood the situation better than all these do-gooders torching Paulk on the alter of political correctness. She clearly and accurately understood the implications that turning Treyvon over to cops would destroy Trevon's hopes for a brighter future. The cops don't help these situations. Government bureaucrats and courts exacerbate problems and levy impossible burdens upon people who cannot afford it. Treyon will not be helped. Neither will the girl. Nothing good will result from this.

But hey, everyone can feel good that young Treyvon is sacrificed on the alter of political correctness. Domestic violence is all the craze these days. Treyvon will be treated more harshly than a murderer or crack dealer in the media and public scrutiny.

Let the howling and backlash against my politically incorrect opinion begin. The only one who really cared about Treyvon here was his girlfriend. Government and media only multiplied victims and solved nothing. That's the truth.
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You say no one has argued your point so here it goes. The best I can make out of the gibberish I have read.

1. What does a woman beater being punished have to do with political correctness? I cannot figure out what you are talking about there. He hit a woman so I have no sympathy for him, I have held that opinion long before the media got involved. On top of that he was dumb enough to do it in public. I don’t see any way this could have ended well for him. Either getting his a$$ kicked by a group of guys who witnessed it or the cops called. He got the second. He is solely responsible for his actions.

2. Treyvon destroyed his own future when he decided to stalk and punch his ex-girlfriend.

3. Treyvon’s girlfriend is a victim of domestic violence. For some reason a lot of times these victims try to protect their attacker. It doesn’t necessarily mean they are thinking clearly.

4. You ask if this is what is best for their futures. I don’t know I am not a fortune teller, but clearly with the way the situation unfolded he was not headed in the right direction anyway. Just because you are good at football and possibly NFL bound doesn’t mean you are headed in the right direction, just ask Ray Carruth.

5. He could see losing his scholarship and the bad press and everything else as a wakeup call and turn his life around, or he could continue beating women and go into a downward spiel. It is his choice.

6. Is life difficult after you screw up this bad? Yes. That is why you try to avoid these big mistakes in life, but when you make them you have to face the consequences. Some get off easier than others. When you are a college football player it is going to be in the media. That is life.

7. This supposedly wasn’t the first time he hit his ex, so maybe one of those other times are when the people who cared about him should have taken care of the situation. He and the people who care about him have had their opportunities to turn this situation around and it has not worked. He needs a hard wakeup call. What he decides to do with it is on him.

8. Lastly I will address your statement about Treyvon being treated more harshly then murderers and crack dealers. Maybe instead of whining about how hard Treyvon has it, you should start complaining that crack dealers and murders have it too easy. If it was up to me they would all get it a lot worse. Especially repeat offenders.
 
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#579
#579
American Pig said:
Weezer,
Where is your argument that cops, media and institutional banishment of a young man is the most effective way of helping Treyvon's girlfriend and having a positive effect on the situation?
Tell me how you know better than Treyvon's girlfriend?
Explain why the cops and media circus are better equipped to bring about appropriate and effectual results than Treyvon's girlfriend?

Until you can engage the actual argument, all that spin is just noise.
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Because battered women obviously don't make sound decisions and need intervention even when it's against their will, and society is moving past turning a blind eye an assuming close friends will take care of it...or, they will work it out on their on....or, it's a one time thing. Hell I wish all cases were blown up in the media and made a big deal of. This craps got to stop already. Does that engage your argument?
 
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#580
#580
American Pig said:
Still no answers to my questions or anything of relevance. Why not?

Why do you spin everything and answer nothing? Do you ever hold yourself intellectually accountable?

You can't engage a single thing I argued on the merits. Calling me ignorant is pure BS.
Click to expand...

IMO, you're not here to get answers to any questions.. You're on a mission to argue, ie, you're trolling..

Unfortunately, you're being quite successful....
 
#581
#581
American Pig said:
No sympathy for woman beaters here.

Try interacting with what I actually argued. Any idiot can repeat platitudes about beating women and spin things. That's easier than thinking. Try actually thinking.
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Lol. You are not very intelligent. Clear for all to see.

You're either a relative and/or a woman beater yourself.
 
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#582
#582
American Pig said:
Still no answers to my questions or anything of relevance. Why not?

Why do you spin everything and answer nothing? Do you ever hold yourself intellectually accountable?

You can't engage a single thing I argued on the merits. Calling me ignorant is pure BS.
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The only evidence I would be interested in hearing is Paulk saying he did not hit her. Since there were witnesses it limits this defense. There is no other credible defense for punching women other than pleading stupidity. Anyone who does not understand this simple formula needs help themselves.:loco:
 
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#583
#583
American Pig said:
Weezer,
Where is your argument that cops, media and institutional banishment of a young man is the most effective way of helping Treyvon's girlfriend and having a positive effect on the situation?
Tell me how you know better than Treyvon's girlfriend?
Explain why the cops and media circus are better equipped to bring about appropriate and effectual results than Treyvon's girlfriend?

Until you can engage the actual argument, all that spin is just noise.
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He doesn't have to make that argument no different than the cops nor UT. The cops enforce the law.
Its not the cops responsibility to rehabilitate a man that punched his girlfriend. For that matter its not UTs responsibility either. Their responsibility is to the University and its security.

If Treyvon and his GF are really worried about his rehab and getting his life on track it will happen. This is his wake up call that its not acceptable.
 
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#584
#584
American Pig said:
Weezer,
Where is your argument that cops, media and institutional banishment of a young man is the most effective way of helping Treyvon's girlfriend and having a positive effect on the situation?
Tell me how you know better than Treyvon's girlfriend?
Explain why the cops and media circus are better equipped to bring about appropriate and effectual results than Treyvon's girlfriend?

Until you can engage the actual argument, all that spin is just noise.
Click to expand...



The police is not in the business of bringing about "appropriate and effectual results" in the lives of those who engage in criminal behavior. They are in the business of enforcing the law. In fact, it is their charge and obligation.

The media is not in the business of bringing about "appropriate and effectual results" in the lives of those who are involved in events and circumstances that are deemed newsworthy and reported on by said media. It is their absolute right to do so, and any effort to curtail that would do far more damage than good.

You are correct that it is those who care most about Paulk that are the most likely and able to find "appropriate and effectual results" in correcting his behavior.

It seems what you are implying is that the legal system and the media is a detriment to anyone's ability to help him. I am not sure I agree with that. It is possible that it could help him understand the magnitude of his issue and compel him to seek real help in resolving it. And, while we have agreed his loved ones are key, they are secondary to himself when it comes to getting help. He will never be helped until he chooses to be. If he makes that choice, he'll have more options than most because of his talent.

Perhaps he will not choose to help himself despite the efforts of his loved ones. If he is in fact ruined, it is not the fault of anyone but himself. This is not a statement of self righteousness. All are short of perfect. But, all are accountable for their actions and sometimes the consequences are heavy.
 
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#585
#585
What I don't understand is how have they been together since they were 11 or 12? Why would she follow him to UT and attend school if he was truly abusive in the past, or did he follow her here? Domestic violence situations are always sad and befuddling. The thought processes of some people are very confusing.
 
#586
#586
Weezer said:
What specifically do you want addressed?

I understand you don't believe in people being personally accountable for their actions, but I do not share that opinion. Treyvon made a choice to act. Now he has to deal with the consequences. That's called reality.
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You are lying. I neither said, implied or believe, any such thing. When you lie without conscience to distort my position, you have no integrity. You simply cannot address my argument honestly. Liars suck.
 
#588
#588
vols4evah said:
I understand what you are trying to say and will give you a counter argument.

first lets say what we do know as facts about this situation.
1. paulk and his gf have/had been together for 7 years.

2. she has said that he hit her in the past and obviously she never reported him to the police.

3. she did break up with him to attempt to get away from an abusive situation but that clearly didn't help because he found her at that party and this time he hits her in public in front of witness who stopped the altercation.

I think that sums up what we do know. please correct me if I have missed anything or I am incorrect in anyway.

Now here is my counter argument.

I wonder what would have happened had he found her when she was alone, would he have stopped at hitting her just one time ? Or would he have beat her till she submitted and became his girlfriend again ?
I think history tells us in cases like this that it would most likely be the latter and she would be back in that abusive relationship.
To support my argument I offer the fact that he has escalated to now hitting her in public. In an abusive relationship lots of times things get progressively worse for the woman.

I argue that what happened was just about the best thing that could have happened for both parties. Paulk was caught red handed with his abusive behavior and publicly shamed and he also has had to pay a stiff price for his actions. BUT he gets away lightly since the girlfriend has refused to press charges. Maybe just maybe this whole episode will cause him to reevaluate the course his life is going, he still has time to change things.

As for the girl there is a very good chance she has finally escaped this horrible situation and can move on with her life without living in fear, and she now has people that are aware of what has been going on and I will bet they will look out for her in the future.

So in my opinion he didn't get his life ruined at all and the girl has a good chance of escaping the vicious cycle of an abusive relationship which is the most important thing of all.

Lastly I know you think the media and police getting involved in this situation was bad for Paulk but I counter that the public attention and the shame it brings may be the only thing that can reach him and force him to change.

anyway that's my input on the situation.
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Good job Vols4evah!

These points seem reasonably valid and well considered. If the abusive behavior were in fact known to be chronic and the girl is incapable of knowing how to handle the situation without police action, this may have been the best choice.

I appreciate that you are thinking beyond superficial surface impressions and repeating popular platitudes.

You got my vote.
 
#589
#589
I fail to see how Paulk has been cast into the pits, never to be seen or heard from again.

It's a stain on his character and something he will have to overcome in the future, but 247 already reported other schools and coaches have begun to inquire about him. If he fails to take advantage of a 2nd chance that is all but promised at this point, then that's on him.

He simply will not be able to continue his career at UT.
 
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#592
#592
butchna said:
All you're doing is squawking keywords and demanding that we address an argument that you haven't even presented...unless it's your proposition that woman beaters should only have to deal with people that care about them. :eek:lol: I think you're bored and being purposely ridiculous because you broke your leg and it itches under that cast...when they break that open...take a bath first thing (dead skin)...and don't be shocked at the murkin on your knee...just shave it. :yuck:
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Moronic. Dishonest. Rubbish.
 
#594
#594
Sorry, but this kid burned his get out of jail card as soon as he hit a woman. Anyone that doesn't see this is delusional and should excuse themselves from this thread. Trying to spin it any other way is a problem that as Americans we have suffered for years. To strike a woman in any manner is wrong and if you try to rationalize his behavior is beyond good sense.

This kid is a cancer and needs to be cut from the program. Anything he conspired to do or did speaks volumes to his character and he needs to be removed. Coach Jones get it!
 
#596
#596
WallyBalls said:
I fail to see how Paulk has been cast into the pits, never to be seen or heard from again.

It's a stain on his character and something he will have to overcome in the future, but 247 already reported other schools and coaches have begun to inquire about him. If he fails to take advantage of a 2nd chance that is all but promised at this point, then that's on him.

He simply will not be able to continue his career at UT.
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You may be correct. But this would just illustrate the political nature of his eviction from one institution - only to be picked up by others. Nothing about him or the facts changed.
The obvious question becomes why does such behavior warrant eviction at UT, yet easily overlooked by the next school?
 
#598
#598
American Pig said:
You are lying. I neither said, implied or believe, any such thing. When you lie without conscience to distort my position, you have no integrity. You simply cannot address my argument honestly. Liars suck.
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You really need to rethink how to present what concepts you want folks to address.

Personally, I disagree with the general direction of your original post in which you challenged people to "think". Please, in a logical order, present your case again.

Question: Was it the father and mother of the young lady who was assaulted that called the police from another state?

If so, and having their daughter far from home and once again assaulted by her previous boyfriend whom they knew and she had evidently broke up with because of several previous assaults, they had senseable and justifiable fear for her physical being, if not her life. For you to suggest the police should not be involved is, in my book as a father, wrong think. What the police did is exactly what I want them to do everytime a similar situation occurs.

Trayvon does indeed need help. Without prosecution, it is indeed possible he will not get it; whereas if convicted of domestic assault, part of the sentencing may well have been getting him the professional help he needs. Is he still denying he hit her? Hmmm... Why would he do that? His 'career'. Is he so shallow as that? I think so, yes; he sees himself as athletically gifted elite and above responsibility for his actions as we have seen there are quite a few who do.

As for his career? There are many, many capable athletes of good character ready and willing to fill the shoes of miscreants such as a person who hits women. The University of Tennessee offered him the priviledge of becoming a Volunteer, BUT, there ARE STRINGS ATTACHED to that scholarship, as well there should be.

My opinion. Start a fight, or initiate physical violence against anyone, male or female unless in self defense or defense of the defenseless, or there are seriously understandable extenuating circumstances; then you are off the team, scholarship revoked, expelled from school, with a ticket home and escorted to the station/airport and seen getting on. You are gone. Finis. Done. Not welcome here. No second chances. This should be made crystal clear to anyone considering playing for Tennessee. We will not tolerate it.

Rehabilitation, counseling, etc. That isn't our responsibility, although I do hope he can get it.
 
#599
#599
American Pig said:
You may be correct. But this would just illustrate the political nature of his eviction from one institution - only to be picked up by others. Nothing about him or the facts changed.
The obvious question becomes why does such behavior warrant eviction at UT, yet easily overlooked by the next school?
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Right or wrong, it's the nature of the beast. They sell it as a guy going to a lower level, learning to appreciate football, then rising up from the ashes. It's absolute spin most of the time. If you have skills (be they athletic, sales, whatever) you WILL get second chances.

That's why Cam Clear is at A&M, Z. Mettenberger captained LSU for 2 years, and Cam Newton is now a legend at Auburn.
 
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