Transfers defectors and numbers.

[DaddyChad]

No. It affects the 85 scholarship limit, though. After graduation and attrition, we still have a few more to lose to take a full class and hit that number.

Pretty much. Although the Henderson one might be interesting to see how that works out against the 25 limit from last year. He never should've qualified anyways, so would he count against the signing cap of 25?

 

[sjt18]

For the sky is falling group. We knew we would and we need defectors from our classes.

We sign 32 in 2014 , 28 in 2015 and 25 in 2016. Well there's 85 scholarship players and you can't sign a freshman in 2017.

Loosing players is part of the game. It happens every where, every year.

So you all have now abandoned the argument that only experienced depth can win football games?

If Sawyers goes then 12 of the first 53 Jones signees will be gone before their 4th semester on campus. Seven of the 12 were rated 4* by Rivals... disproportionately high. The worst part is that they aren't spread across position groups. They've signed 8 (not counting Robertson) DL's and four of them are gone. Worse yet, they've signed four 4* DL's and three of them are gone if Sawyers leaves.


This IS a position that requires lots of bodies and time to develop. You cannot build DL depth averaging two players per year making it.

 

[LA Vol]

Pretty much. Although the Henderson one might be interesting to see how that works out against the 25 limit from last year. He never should've qualified anyways, so would he count against the signing cap of 25?

Yeah, we have a couple of odd scenarios-- Henderson, Paulk supposedly boomeranging back, RDAIV transferring in. Peterman graduated, so he might leave or do a graduate transfer. IDT we'll have too tough a time hitting 85. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

[GLDunlap]

I agree with this. It stinks for some of the kids, but its what has to be done.

So CBJ is running Hendrix, Helm and Scott off to make room for future recruits like Saban did? This is just ridiculous. If that was the case wouldn't it be better to run off Jaylen Miller, Kendal Vickers, Justin King, A.J.Branisel, Devaun Swafford etc? We have no other running backs to run off so we just run Scott off? These are all quality players with bright futures. It is what it is and it makes no sense to pretend it's something it's not. They are all leaving on their own accord.

 

[DL916]

So CBJ is running Hendrix, Helm and Scott off to make room for future recruits like Saban did? This is just ridiculous. If that was the case wouldn't it be better to run off Jaylen Miller, Kendal Vickers, Justin King, A.J.Branisel, Devaun Swafford etc? We have no other running backs to run off so we just run Scott off? These are all quality players with bright futures. It is what it is and it makes no sense to pretend it's something it's not. They are all leaving on their own accord.

I think what he's trying to say is that Butch is recruiting over the kids. The reason the older guys aren't transferring is because they have a year or two left. If you're a freshman and the coach is bringing in 3-4 guys that might be better at the same position then why sit on the bench for those years? I don't think Butch is running them off but Butch is bringing in around 30 kids per class.

When you're bringing in huge classes like that you'll over recruit some positions (good problem to have). But also in normal classes it's not rare to see 4-5 kids transfer, now you add 5-6 more kids per class and the number of transfers will go up as the classes add up.

 

[GLDunlap]

]I think what he's trying to say is that Butch is recruiting over the kids. [/B]The reason the older guys aren't transferring is because they have a year or two left. If you're a freshman and the coach is bringing in 3-4 guys that might be better at the same position then why sit on the bench for those years? I don't think Butch is running them off but Butch is bringing in around 30 kids per class.

When you're bringing in huge classes like that you'll over recruit some positions (good problem to have). But also in normal classes it's not rare to see 4-5 kids transfer, now you add 5-6 more kids per class and the number of transfers will go up as the classes add up.

Just don't buy that these particular guys are being "recruited over" which is a ridiculously overused term to begin with.

 

[VolInDayton]

I had a little free time and made a excel document which showed the attrition from each recruiting class dating back to Kiffin's first class. It is probably not 100 percent accurate because it was hard finding information about all the players, but it should be pretty close. I think it should show we shouldn't be that worried about the current attrition. Butch has been signing larger/better ranked classes and so far the attrition is still lower than the previous two coaches. Granted we are only one year removed from butches first full class and 2 years removed from the class that Dooley mostly recruited but Butch finished. You can see that some players that left from the Butch/Dooley class were either Dooley recruits (Ferguson, Harris) or just fillers (Brown, Lee) with the exception coming from the the staff wanting Carr to switch positions. I think that people are worried about attrition for not much reason. Attrition is part of college football and it is normally higher when programs are going through coaching changes. Butch Jones has done a good job bringing in large, high ranked classes while keep attrition relatively low compared to what we were use to. I mean half the players Kiffin signed left the program early compared to about the 20 percent of players who have left Butch Jones two recruiting classes and he is about ready to sign back to back classes of over 30 players.

 

[dcm3w]

I can understand why Scott and Hendrix wanted to leave because we are recruiting a bunch of talent in those spots. I don't see why Helm wanted to leave. I believe he would be getting significant playing time in the future. Wolf will be the starter but in jumbo/goaline packages, Helm could have been a threat. Also, Wolf has been banged up some this season, and he could be like that his whole career (hopefully not) which Helm would be taking over.

 

[lilesrt]

Agree and another poster hit the nail on the head yesterday regarding the fact that Butch was playing any true freshman that could contribute as evidenced by Hurd, Barnett, Wolfe, TKjr, etc. and yet these transfers couldn't hardly get on the field. They either didn't have it in them to compete at this level, or we're maybe a bit overrated in the recruiting process. Time to move along, best of luck to them in their futures.

Helm showed promise.

 

[smokey0625]

I can understand why Scott and Hendrix wanted to leave because we are recruiting a bunch of talent in those spots. I don't see why Helm wanted to leave. I believe he would be getting significant playing time in the future. Wolf will be the starter but in jumbo/goaline packages, Helm could have been a threat. Also, Wolf has been banged up some this season, and he could be like that his whole career (hopefully not) which Helm would be taking over.

Helm was no blocker. He would not have been used in a jumbo package. He was a receiving threat and he had so major issues with blocking. When wolf was out it showed.

 

[TNinOR]

Fade,

I think you make a good point. We often talk about how a "3 star" or "2 star" we get is underrated and is gonna rock the world when he gets here. I think its also reasonable to assume that some of the "4 star" recruits we get in are overrated. I'm sure there are a myriad of reasons this could happen.

The point being, I think Butch has pretty much proven he is a pretty good evaluator or talent. But at this level, dealing with this many kids, you're going to have some who outperform expectations and some who underperform.

It seems in the past there was a pride issue involved with some of the coaches. They would hold on to underperforming players because they had recruited them and they didn't want to look like they had made a mistake. Whereas, Butch seems a bit more results driven. Not advocating one or the other, just laying out the facts.

Helm was a little undersized for the TE position, but Scott and Hendrix had loads of talent. With the latter two it was all about attitude and not under-performance. They did get on the field as true freshmen, after all.

I suspect Hendrix would have been okay but was poisoned by Scott's bad attitude.

 

[GLDunlap]

]Helm was a little undersized for the TE position,[/B] but Scott and Hendrix had loads of talent. With the latter two it was all about attitude and not under-performance. They did get on the field as true freshmen, after all.

I suspect Hendrix would have been okay but was poisoned by Scott's bad attitude.

According to UT sports.com Helm and Wolf were basically the same size. Both weighed 240 with Wolf being an inch taller. Helm put on 20-25 lbs between last spring and fall. Wolf was more ready to play this year but Helm will be a star somewhere. I really wish he would stay and fight through it.

 

[DaddyChad]

[/B]

So CBJ is running Hendrix, Helm and Scott off to make room for future recruits like Saban did? This is just ridiculous. If that was the case wouldn't it be better to run off Jaylen Miller, Kendal Vickers, Justin King, A.J.Branisel, Devaun Swafford etc? We have no other running backs to run off so we just run Scott off? These are all quality players with bright futures. It is what it is and it makes no sense to pretend it's something it's not. They are all leaving on their own accord.

What's ridiculous about it? We had to make room somewhere if not here then somewhere else on the roster and we STILL have to see some names go to have room if we're bringing in all the kids we're recruiting.

Do I think the coaches want ALL of these kids to transfer? Probably not but I also do not think they fought that hard to keep them either so I don't see this being a sky is falling situation. There is more than just talent to building a team.

 

[HuntlandVolinColo]

Isn't it funny how starters don't appear to get as "homesick" as others?

Hendrix was one that I thought could've been a good player for us. Scott and Helm I think would've been recruited over quickly anyways.

I still think Helm will be an NFL starter. He just needed one more year of S&C and experience. He's the one I hate to lose the most.

 

[GLDunlap]

What's ridiculous about it? We had to make room somewhere if not here then somewhere else on the roster and we STILL have to see some names go to have room if we're bringing in all the kids we're recruiting.

Do I think the coaches want ALL of these kids to transfer? Probably not but I also do not think they fought that hard to keep them either so I don't see this being a sky is falling situation. There is more than just talent to building a team.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. My only point is these particular players are not being run off. They are all leaving for their own reasons. Some believe CBJ is just making room but I don't believe that at all. There is plenty of below average Fresh/Soph to run off before you get to Hendrix, Helm and Scott. Bad attitudes can be fixed if that's the problem but it does take both sides and I understand that. I'm not saying it's the end of the world or even blaming the coaches but I can't get so excited about a recruit and then act like it's nothing at all when they leave. This is a prime example why redshirting is almost always best for Freshman. Hopefully we will get to the point that we can do more of that soon.

 

[joevol33]

[/B]

So CBJ is running Hendrix, Helm and Scott off to make room for future recruits like Saban did? This is just ridiculous. If that was the case wouldn't it be better to run off Jaylen Miller, Kendal Vickers, Justin King, A.J.Branisel, Devaun Swafford etc? We have no other running backs to run off so we just run Scott off? These are all quality players with bright futures. It is what it is and it makes no sense to pretend it's something it's not. They are all leaving on their own accord.

I didn't say he's running them off. But if they aren't out playing, or getting better than recruits and know they won't be playing then they'll likely leave.

 

[govolsCT]

Does anyone have the standing # of scholarship players we have on the roster with the recent defections? Also how many Seniors are we losing on scholarship?
Thanks

 

[GLDunlap]

I didn't say he's running them off. But if they aren't out playing, or getting better than recruits and know they won't be playing then they'll likely leave.

lol whatever you said

 

[orangeluvr]

For the sky is falling group. We knew we would and we need defectors from our classes.

We sign 32 in 2014 , 28 in 2015 and 25 in 2016. Well there's 85 scholarship players and you can't sign a freshman in 2017.

Loosing players is part of the game. It happens every where, every year.

That's a good thing if 5*, 4*, replace 3* !

 

[GLDunlap]

That's a good thing if 5*, 4*, replace 3* !

If only that was the case but it's not.

 

[BigOrangeD]

Does anyone have the standing # of scholarship players we have on the roster with the recent defections? Also how many Seniors are we losing on scholarship?
Thanks

I'll take a stab at it. Been tracking these guys in a database I put together but not sure I have all the Scholarship Players correct. I left out all current Seniors.
Sorted on Jersey Number. 64 Total.

Name No Pos Class Height Weight HomeTown Scholarship MayTransfer
Jalen Hurd 1 RB FR 6-3 221 Hendersonville, Tenn./Beech Senior Y N
D'Andre Payne 2 DB FR 5-9 184 Washington, D.C./H.D. Woodson Y y
Pig Howard 2 WR JR 5-8 186 Orlando, Fla./Edgewater Y N
Josh Malone 3 WR FR 6-3 202 Gallatin, Tenn./Station Camp Y Y
LaTroy Lewis 4 DL RS SO 6-4 255 Akron, Ohio/Archbishop Hoban Y Y
Vic Wharton 4 WR FR 5-11 192 Spring Hill, Tenn./Independence Y N
George Bullock 5 PK RS SO 6-0 209 Knoxville, Tenn./West Y N
Ryan Jenkins 5 WR RS FR 5-11 201 Marietta, Ga./Lassiter Y N
Todd Kelly, Jr. 6 DB FR 6-0 191 Knoxville, Tenn./Webb School Y N
Rashaan Gaulden 7 DB FR 6-1 165 Spring Hill, Tenn./Independence Y N
Drae Bowles 7 WR RS SO 6-0 205 Jackson, Tenn./Jackson Christian Y y
Dewayne Hendrix 8 DL FR 6-4 273 O'Fallon, Ill./O'Fallon Township Y Y
Marquez North 8 WR SO 6-4 221 Charlotte, N.C./Mallard Creek Y N
Derek Barnett 9 DE FR 6-3 267 Nashville, Tenn./Brentwood Academy Y N
Von Pearson 9 WR RS JR 6-3 181 Newport News, Va./Denbigh/Feather River College (Calif.) Y N
Joshua Dobbs 11 QB SO 6-3 203 Alpharetta, Ga./Alpharetta Y N
Emmanuel Moseley 12 DB FR 165 Greensboro, N.C./Dudley Y N
Nathan Peterman 12 QB RS SO 6-2 225 Fruit Cove, Fla./Bartram Trail Y Y
Dillon Bates 17 LB FR 6-3 216 Ponte Verda Beach, Fla./Ponte Vedra Y N
Jason Croom 18 WR RS SO 6-5 234 Norcross, Ga./Norcross Y N
Cortez McDowell 20 DB FR 6-1 204 Locust Grove, Ga./Locust Grove Y N
Malik Foreman 22 DB SO 5-10 181 Kingsport, Tenn./Dobyns-Bennett Y y
Cameron Sutton 23 DB SO 6-1 180 Jonesboro, Ga./Jonesboro Y N
Derrell Scott 24 RB FR 5-11 188 Havelock, N.C./Havelock Y Y
Aaron Medley 25 PK FR 6-2 175 Lewisburg, Tenn./Marshall County Y N
Josh Smith 25 WR SO 6-1 197 Knoxville, Tenn./Christian Academy of Knoxville Y N
Geraldo Orta 26 DB RS JR 6-0 186 Valdosta, Ga./Lowndes Y y
Evan Berry 29 DB FR 5-11 195 Fairburn, Ga./Creekside Y N
Neiko Creamer 31 LB FR 6-3 225 Wilmington, Del./Eastern Christian Academy (Md.) Y N
Justus Pickett 31 RB RS JR 5-10 199 Charlotte, N.C./Ardrey Kell/Maryland Y y
LaDarrell McNeil 33 DB JR 204 Dallas, Texas/Wilmer-Hutchins Y N
Jalen Reeves-Maybin 34 LB SO 214 Clarksville, Tenn./Northeast Y N
Gavin Bryant 36 LB FR 6-0 225 Jackson, Ala./Jackson Y N
Brian Randolph 37 DB RS JR 6-0 197 Marietta, Ga./Kell Y N
Justin King 38 LB RS SO 6-2 246 Dunwoody, Ga./Dunwoody Y y
Kendal Vickers 39 DL RS FR 6-3 254 Havelock, N.C./Havelock Y y
Dimarya Mixon 40 DL FR 6-3 266 Compton, Calif./West Mesquite (Texas) Y y
Elliott Berry 41 DB FR 6-0 207 Fairburn, Ga./Creekside Y N
Chris Weatherd 43 LB JR 6-4 225 Carrollton, Texas/Creekview/Trinity Valley C.C. Y N
Jakob Johnson 44 DL FR 6-4 230 Stuttgart, Germany/Jean Ribault (Fla.) Y N
Corey Vereen 50 DL SO 6-2 248 Winter Garden, Fla./West Orange Y N
Kenny Bynum 51 LB RS SO 6-1 234 Jacksonville, Fla./Raines Y y
Coleman Thomas 55 OL FR 6-6 311 Max Meadows, Va./Fort Chiswell Y N
Curt Maggitt 56 DL RS JR 6-3 244 West Palm Beach, Fla./Dwyer Y N
Mack Crowder 57 OL RS JR 6-2 286 Bristol, Tenn./Tennessee HS Y N
Owen Williams 58 DL RS JR 6-2 289 Macon, Ga./Westside/Butler C.C. (Kan.) Y N
Austin Sanders 60 OL RS FR 6-5 311 Cleveland, Tenn./Bradley Central Y N
Brett Kendrick 63 OL RS FR 6-6 315 Knoxville, Tenn./Christian Academy of Knoxville Y y
Ray Raulerson 64 OL FR 6-5 274 Tampa, Fla./Plant Senior Y y
Dylan Wiesman 71 OL SO 6-3 304 Cincinnati, Ohio/Colerain Y N
Michael Sawyers 72 DL FR 6-3 299 Antioch, Tenn./Ensworth Y Y
Jashon Robertson 73 DL/OL FR 306 Nashville, Tenn./Montgomery Bell Academy Y N
Dontavius Blair 74 OL JR 6-8 313 Anniston, Ala./Anniston/Garden City C.C. (Kan.) Y N
Marcus Jackson 75 OL RS JR 6-2 304 Vero Beach, Fla./Vero Beach Y N
Kyler Kerbyson 77 OL RS JR 6-4 304 Knoxville, Tenn./Knoxville Catholic Y N
Charles Mosley 78 DL/OL FR 6-5 374 Brighton, Tenn./Brighton Y N
Daniel Helm 80 TE FR 6-4 232 Chatham, Ill./Glenwood Y Y
Johnathon Johnson 81 WR JR 183 Friendswood, Texas/Friendswood/Blinn College Y N
Ethan Wolf 82 TE FR 6-5 243 Minster, Ohio/Minster Y N
Cody Blanc 83 WR JR 6-3 203 Knoxville, Tenn./Knoxville Central Y N
A.J. Branisel 86 TE SO 6-4 224 South Euclid, Ohio/Notre Dame Cathedral Latin School Y Y
Jaylen Miller 89 DL SO 6-2 250 Gaffney, S.C./Gaffney Y y
Danny O'Brien 95 DL RS SO 6-2 281 Flint, Mich./Powers Catholic Y N
Trevarris Saulsberry 96 DL RS JR 297 Gainesville, Fla./Gainesville Y N

 

[Shakinthefat]

What determines a Y for "May Transfer"

 

[DaddyChad]

[/B]

I wholeheartedly agree with this. My only point is these particular players are not being run off. They are all leaving for their own reasons. Some believe CBJ is just making room but I don't believe that at all. There is plenty of below average Fresh/Soph to run off before you get to Hendrix, Helm and Scott. Bad attitudes can be fixed if that's the problem but it does take both sides and I understand that. I'm not saying it's the end of the world or even blaming the coaches but I can't get so excited about a recruit and then act like it's nothing at all when they leave. This is a prime example why redshirting is almost always best for Freshman. Hopefully we will get to the point that we can do more of that soon.

Yep. Tremendous adjustment in the amount of responsibility and mental stress that these kids have to deal with. Most true freshmen struggle at their university to balance and adjust everything and that's without even having to worry about football. Generally it would be easier in most cases to redshirt, let the kids adjust, get this stuff out of their system then ease them into playing in the future. Most programs have that luxury and work in one or two true stud freshman players as they go. We don't have that option.

What I am stating is that it doesn't seem like we put forth a huge effort to retain these kids if we thought they were going to be huge contributors down the road.

 

[DaddyChad]

What determines a Y for "May Transfer"

I believe two years of eligibility without appeal for hardship.

 

[BigOrangeD]

What determines a Y for "May Transfer"

I put those in based on what others have said from the board, radio, recruiting sites, etc. Nothing Official.