Trade Wars and Tariffs

[BernardKingGOAT]

me.

My point was that tarriffs are getting blamed for problems Unions are causing.

Whaaaaat?

 

[NorthDallas40]

Whaaaaat?

 

[EasternVol]

Can't we just leave the money printer on?

It worked for Obama. Well maybe worked isn't the right word.

 

[EasternVol]

me.

My point was that tarriffs are getting blamed for problems Unions are causing.

Hoo boy. Don't bother trying to explain it.

 

[EasternVol]

@EasternVol see! I called it!

Nailed it.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Nailed it.

I actually do have a few problems with unions. However trying to blame all this tariff stupidity on unions is pure gold.

 

[EasternVol]

I actually do have a few problems with unions. However trying to blame all this tariff stupidity on unions is pure gold.

As do I. Seeing up close how the UMW helped kill the goose that laid their golden egg helped shape that view. But it's not unions' fault that factory labor elsewhere is dirt cheap or that Trump's a dumbass in matters of international commerce.

 

[MurphyVol]

Not really.

“The Philippines will pay a 19% tariff”

ETA: Murphy were you commenting on me not being clear (which is what I responded to from my inference of your post) or Trump’s usual tweet psychobabble was incoherent? If the former I clarified, if the later I agree. Lotsa words with no real substance. Which has been the norm for these deal announcements

Trump's take on tariffs is nonsense.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Trump's take on tariffs is nonsense.

Ah got it. Agreed.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Of all the personal income taxes the fed collects about 60% of it comes from those making $300k+ so it wouldn't be a majority.

The top 10% pay 90% of FIT. The bottom 50% pay nothing.

But the screaming liberals want the richest to “pay their fair share”. The richest use that capital to build stuff. The government redistributes what they steal from them.

 

[JustFunnN'Orange]

It worked for Obama. Well maybe worked isn't the right word.

U forgot to include Biden!!!!
Only the Gov. causes inflation!

 

[JustFunnN'Orange]

Trump's take on tariffs is nonsense.

U obviously have no idea on world economics

 

[JustFunnN'Orange]

The top 10% pay 90% of FIT. The bottom 50% pay nothing.

But the screaming liberals want the richest to “pay their fair share”. The richest use that capital to build stuff. The government redistributes what they steal from them.

Wish I give U a 100 likes!!

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

The top 10% pay 90% of FIT. The bottom 50% pay nothing.

But the screaming liberals want the richest to “pay their fair share”. The richest use that capital to build stuff. The government redistributes what they steal from them.

That's technically not right. The bottom 50% cumulatively get paid to file a return.....

Between EITC and refundable Child Care Credits, the bottom 50% receive hundreds of billions just for filing a return...

 

[MontyPython]

so you would need a 50% tariff, assuming dollar amounts stayed the same, to offset income tax.

and this forgets that supposedly Trump was doing this to bring business back to the US. if the US becomes self dependent there is going to be alot fewer imports to tariff.

One itsy-bitsy fly in the ointment here...

A 50% tariff on all goods equates to a 50% new TAX that we'd pay.

In sum, that $50K car from last year now costs $75K. You just spent $25K more than you would have without a tariff. Any pie in the sky "elimination" of your income taxes would actually be negated by such new tariff taxes that you pay. Stealing from Peter to pay Paul.

Net macroeconomic effect: New taxes offset income tax reductions. There is no new wealth created for our country, because WE'RE THE ONES PAYING NEW TARIFFS, NOT FOREIGN COUNTRIES.

Ultimately, this ponzi scheme would actually INCREASE OUR GOVERNMENT'S SIZE and give the Feds more control over your money. They would collect your money via tariffs, and they would determine how your money is spent.

Think the federal government is going to collect your new tax money you gave them then distribute it right back to you?

Trump is a dumb-as-bricks snake oil salesman.

 

[MurphyVol]

U obviously have no idea on world economics

Please educate me.

 

[LouderVol]

One itsy-bitsy fly in the ointment here...

A 50% tariff on all goods equates to a 50% new TAX that we'd pay.

In sum, that $50K car from last year now costs $75K. You just spent $25K more than you would have without a tariff. Any pie in the sky "elimination" of your income taxes would actually be negated by such new tariff taxes that you pay. Stealing from Peter to pay Paul.

Net macroeconomic effect: New taxes offset income tax reductions. There is no new wealth created for our country, because WE'RE THE ONES PAYING NEW TARIFFS, NOT FOREIGN COUNTRIES.

Ultimately, this ponzi scheme would actually INCREASE OUR GOVERNMENT'S SIZE and give the Feds more control over your money. They would collect your money via tariffs, and they would determine how your money is spent.

Think the federal government is going to collect your new tax money you gave them then distribute it right back to you?

Trump is a dumb-as-bricks snake oil salesman.

assuming tariffs actually replace income taxes: the difference being that consumption is a choice, and the rich would by default pay more of a fair share. and by being a choice it would give people a level of engagement in the government that is not currently possible, and it would allow them more choice.

lets say I buy that car year 1, pay the extra 25k. the next year I am not being a new car, so I have that 25k back in my pocket. for however many years I am not buying a new car that is an extra 25k, which would mean in three years the lack of income tax would pay for the new 75k car under tariff prices. under income taxes that 25k would never end up in my pocket.

personally I have had my car for 11 years, with no plans to trade it in. I would gladly trade increased tariff prices while keeping all of my pay check. the increased pay check would very quickly offset any tariff pricing. also this assumes that the only cars on the market for me are foreign made and subject to the tariffs.

most of the food we consume and make would not face a 50% tariff, so it wouldn't impact the needy as much.

 

[MontyPython]

assuming tariffs actually replace income taxes: the difference being that consumption is a choice, and the rich would by default pay more of a fair share. and by being a choice it would give people a level of engagement in the government that is not currently possible, and it would allow them more choice.

lets say I buy that car year 1, pay the extra 25k. the next year I am not being a new car, so I have that 25k back in my pocket. for however many years I am not buying a new car that is an extra 25k, which would mean in three years the lack of income tax would pay for the new 75k car under tariff prices. under income taxes that 25k would never end up in my pocket.

personally I have had my car for 11 years, with no plans to trade it in. I would gladly trade increased tariff prices while keeping all of my pay check. the increased pay check would very quickly offset any tariff pricing. also this assumes that the only cars on the market for me are foreign made and subject to the tariffs.

most of the food we consume and make would not face a 50% tariff, so it wouldn't impact the needy as much.

Here's the easiest way to look at tariffs from a macroeconomic viewpoint:

Take the giant sum of money that is currently owned by you, me an all other Americans. When tariffs are imposed on purchases of imported goods with that money, no *new* money is introduced into that circulating money pile. Why? Because we are taxing *ourselves*, not other countries.

Our giant, collective cash pile simply exchanges hands between us Americans - no new wealth is generated... but also in the nefarious case of tariffs, that money is transferred (in part) from our pockets into the federal government's coffers (it's a federally-collected tax).

Thus, in the long run, it's a zero sum game, at best, with the federal government being the net recipient of circulating cash. Maybe the Feds will give it back to you, maybe they won't. History suggests the latter.

When Trump and his henchmen speak of the huge economic benefits of tariffs (in and of themselves), they are 100% bull *****ing us all. The big winner in the tariffs game: The Federal Government.

 

[hog88]

Here's the easiest way to look at tariffs from a macroeconomic viewpoint:

Take the giant sum of money that is currently owned by you, me an all other Americans. When tariffs are imposed on purchases of imported goods with that money, no *new* money is introduced into that circulating money pile. Why? Because we are taxing *ourselves*, not other countries.

Our giant, collective cash pile simply exchanges hands between us Americans - no new wealth is generated... but also in the nefarious case of tariffs, that money is transferred (in part) from our pockets into the federal government's coffers (it's a federally-collected tax).

Thus, in the long run, it's a zero sum game, at best, with the federal government being the net recipient of circulating cash. Maybe the Feds will give it back to you, maybe they won't. History suggests the latter.

When Trump and his henchmen speak of the huge economic benefits of tariffs (in and of themselves), they are 100% bull *****ing us all. The big winner in the tariffs game: The Federal Government.

How's that any different than all other taxes?

 

[LouderVol]

Here's the easiest way to look at tariffs from a macroeconomic viewpoint:

Take the giant sum of money that is currently owned by you, me an all other Americans. When tariffs are imposed on purchases of imported goods with that money, no *new* money is introduced into that circulating money pile. Why? Because we are taxing *ourselves*, not other countries.

Our giant, collective cash pile simply exchanges hands between us Americans - no new wealth is generated... but also in the nefarious case of tariffs, that money is transferred (in part) from our pockets into the federal government's coffers (it's a federally-collected tax).

Thus, in the long run, it's a zero sum game, at best, with the federal government being the net recipient of circulating cash. Maybe the Feds will give it back to you, maybe they won't. History suggests the latter.

When Trump and his henchmen speak of the huge economic benefits of tariffs (in and of themselves), they are 100% bull *****ing us all. The big winner in the tariffs game: The Federal Government.

are we losing the FIAT system? because even if we were 100% isolationist we would still be able to grow the money pool. the government would still have money to throw around on various pet projects. I know this is going to be crazy to you, but it was possible for economies to develop without being connected to a global system.

secondly not sure how this is different, or worse, than income taxes. at least with tariffs I get my money first and get to decide on what I am buying and thus how much and if I am the tariff tax.

 

[MontyPython]

How's that any different than all other taxes?

Precisely. It’s not.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

One itsy-bitsy fly in the ointment here...

A 50% tariff on all goods equates to a 50% new TAX that we'd pay.

In sum, that $50K car from last year now costs $75K. You just spent $25K more than you would have without a tariff. Any pie in the sky "elimination" of your income taxes would actually be negated by such new tariff taxes that you pay. Stealing from Peter to pay Paul.

Net macroeconomic effect: New taxes offset income tax reductions. There is no new wealth created for our country, because WE'RE THE ONES PAYING NEW TARIFFS, NOT FOREIGN COUNTRIES.

Ultimately, this ponzi scheme would actually INCREASE OUR GOVERNMENT'S SIZE and give the Feds more control over your money. They would collect your money via tariffs, and they would determine how your money is spent.

Think the federal government is going to collect your new tax money you gave them then distribute it right back to you?

Trump is a dumb-as-bricks snake oil salesman.

Buy an American made car. No tariff

 

[MontyPython]

are we losing the FIAT system? because even if we were 100% isolationist we would still be able to grow the money pool. the government would still have money to throw around on various pet projects. I know this is going to be crazy to you, but it was possible for economies to develop without being connected to a global system.

secondly not sure how this is different, or worse, than income taxes. at least with tariffs I get my money first and get to decide on what I am buying and thus how much and if I am the tariff tax.

No you’re right on all points. My point is tariffs don’t create wealth.

 

[LouderVol]

No you’re right on all points. My point is tariffs don’t create wealth.

uh yeah. not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in china, but ok.

 

[EasternVol]

uh yeah. not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in china, but ok.

Seems like tariffs making us rich was a MAGA talking point a while back.