Trade Wars and Tariffs

#1,001
#1,001
Wise words from our European allies. For those of yall lost in the Trump haze of ignorant bliss, yes... we have friends around the world. Funny, not funny that Republicans no longer embrace the concept of free trade. Guess we're actually moving more towards a socialist society now, aren't we?

  • Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson posted on X: “Sweden will continue to stand up for free trade and international cooperation,” he said in a video post. “Free enterprise and competition have laid the foundations of the West’s success. That’s why Americans can listen to music on Swedish Spotify and we Swedes can listen to the same music on our American iPhones. This is why I deeply regret the path the US has embarked upon, seeking to limit trade with higher tariffs.”
 
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#1,002
#1,002
MontyPython said:
Wise words from our European allies. For those of yall lost in the Trump haze of ignorant bliss, yes... we have friends around the world. Funny, not funny that Republicans no longer embrace the concept of free trade. Guess we're actually moving more towards a socialist society now, aren't we?

  • Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson posted on X: “Sweden will continue to stand up for free trade and international cooperation,” he said in a video post. “Free enterprise and competition have laid the foundations of the West’s success. That’s why Americans can listen to music on Swedish Spotify and we Swedes can listen to the same music on our American iPhones. This is why I deeply regret the path the US has embarked upon, seeking to limit trade with higher tariffs.”
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The PM is FOS

Most goods imported to Sweden are also subject to a value-added-tax (VAT). The general VAT rate is 25 percent, with a lower rate of 12 percent for food and certain services and six percent for books and periodicals.
 
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#1,003
#1,003
Orangeburst said:
The PM is FOS

Most goods imported to Sweden are also subject to a value-added-tax (VAT). The general VAT rate is 25 percent, with a lower rate of 12 percent for food and certain services and six percent for books and periodicals.
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A VAT is a neutral tax applied uniformly to both domestic and imported goods, and its rebate on exports is a standard practice to avoid taxing consumption that occurs in foreign countries. -Tax Foundation
 
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#1,005
#1,005
MontyPython said:
NAFTA.

Also, guess what Orangeblobs threats have done to Canada? Their citizens are now going to boycott American products and services. Is that good or bad for us, dude?

The 1930s was the last era of hard tariffs. How'd that work out?

Remember that Adam Smith "the invisible hand" economist? No, probably not. Praise Jebus Donald Trump will prove what a bunch of **** that whole thing was.
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There was tariffs in NAFTA. I remember shipping laptops years ago (long before Trump was President in 2016) from US to one of our Mexico plant and got a surprise tariff. I cited to NAFTA but it was apparently there.

NAFTA was a joke.
 
#1,006
#1,006
MontyPython said:
Who's gonna manufacture stuff here broseph? You? You got a job right? Unemployment is at 4%.

Think about the people you know who are unemployed.

View attachment 732554
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We're in a really weird position. Does anybody who would move manufacturing here believe these tariffs are going to have staying power? Could be setting yourself up for big time failure as soon as Trump changes his mind, or the next guy can go back to normal rules in a few short years.
 
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#1,007
#1,007
It is too much, too quick. You can't redo tariff system over night.

Still, I imagine a lot of these tariffs will be gone by the end of the Summer.

I see China, India, and the low cost country tariffs sticking around.
 
#1,008
#1,008
n_huffhines said:
We're in a really weird position. Does anybody who would move manufacturing here believe these tariffs are going to have staying power? Could be setting yourself up for big time failure as soon as Trump changes his mind, or the next guy can go back to normal rules in a few short years.
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Agree, this is the problem.

I will say this though, if the data is correct about these other nations, they had no issue tariffing us though.

To me, the only nations we should be tariffing are China, India, and Southeast Asia. That is where our jobs have gone and these countries don't play fair. They have slave wages, companies get government money for capital expenses, they steal IP from major companies, etc. I see this in my industry. Main culprit, being China.

If we sat around and did nothing, we would impoverish our nation and empower them.
 
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#1,010
#1,010
Trump's "leverage" is that the US is the largest economy in the world so everyone wants to do business with the US. If they do, now they need to come to the US. Sounds great except there is one problem. Though the highest, the US only accounts for 26% of the world GDP, about a quarter. Now watch 3/4 of the world plays together without the US.
 
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#1,011
#1,011
n_huffhines said:
Can you explain the art of this deal? As I understand it, they are only talking about removing recent retaliatory tariffs against Trump. It would return us to where trade rules were with Canada in December 2024.
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The interview that I saw, the Premier was asked specifically, "All tariffs? Including all historical?" and he answered in the affirmative.

Starts ~2:20 mark. Specifically asked and answered starting ~ 3:15.

 
#1,013
#1,013
Maybe, we should just all demand to take about a 50% or 75% pay cut that way, we can compete with Chinese and mexicans. It's sad that you people have been conditioned to hate your country and are fine with seeing Americans be second third class citizens
 
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#1,014
#1,014
dalton_vol said:
Maybe, we should just all demand to take about a 50% or 75% pay cut that way, we can compete with Chinese and mexicans. It's sad that you people have been conditioned to hate your country and are fine with seeing Americans be second third class citizens
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It's amazing that so many people in the greatest nation in the world can have such a persecution complex^ from a global perspective, and that your solution to that persecution would include "everybody take a gigantic pay cut."
 
#1,015
#1,015
volbound1700 said:
It is too much, too quick. You can't redo tariff system over night.

Still, I imagine a lot of these tariffs will be gone by the end of the Summer.

I see China, India, and the low cost country tariffs sticking around.
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I think so too. I am all for solving trade deficits, improving government efficiency etc. However, I was taught when I have a complicated issue at hand, such as trade deficit, it's important to identify the main problems and secondary problems. Tackle my main problems (China etc.) first with all my resources and help I can get, including help from my secondary problems (US allies). This gives me the best chance to solve my main problems. After I am done, I can come back and deal with the rest. If I try to boil the ocean and attack all my problems at once and try to solve them once for all, not only would I not solve any, it would also be counter-productive to solve my main problems. It only leads to frustration, unexpected upheaval, or worse. The other problem is how to deal with problems. Trump is trying to boil the frog with boiling water. Yes, it would be quicker, but the frog is about to jump out of the pot now.
 
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#1,016
#1,016
exotic_vols said:
I think so too. I am all for solving trade deficits, improving government efficiency etc. However, I was taught when I have a complicated issue at hand, such as trade deficit, it's important to identify the main problems and secondary problems. Tackle my main problems (China etc.) first with all my resources and help I can get, including help from my secondary problems (US allies). This gives me the best chance to solve my main problems. After I am done, I can come back and deal with the rest. If I try to boil the ocean and attack all my problems at once and try to solve them once for all, not only would I not solve any, it would also be counter-productive to solve my main problems. It only leads to frustration, unexpected upheaval, or worse. The other problem is how to deal with problems. Trump is trying to boil the frog with boiling water. Yes, it would be quicker, but the frog is about to jump out of the pot now.
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What do you expect from a hog but a grunt? Look at DOGE. I guess this tariff approach shouldn't really surprise anyone. It's the typical shotgun "spray and pray" plan.
 
#1,018
#1,018
exotic_vols said:
I think so too. I was taught when I have a complicated issue at hand, such as trade deficit, it's important to identify the main problems and secondary problems. Tackle my main problems (China etc.) first with all my resources and help I can get, including help from my secondary problems (US allies). This gives me the best chance to solve my main problems. After I am done, I can come back and deal with the rest. If I try to boil the ocean and attack all my problems at once and try to solve them once for all, I will not be able to solve any. It only leads to frustration, unexpected upheaval, or worse. The other problem is how to deal with problems. Trump is trying to boil the frog with boiling water. Yes, it would be quicker, but the frog is about to jump out of the pot now.
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It's been a long time since we've had this conversation, it's probably useful to revisit. I feel like I talked about it ad nauseam when Trump was running in 2016.

A trade deficit is indeed a complicated issue. It's not even necessarily an issue. "Deficit" makes us think it's inherently bad, but it's not. An equally accurate way of describing the trade situation is calling it a "capital surplus." A trade deficit with China looks like this:

- We get goods from China
- China gets our fiat money
- One way or another, those trade deficit dollars eventually find their way back to the United States. Either vicariously through China's trade partners, or typically through Chinese investment in the American economy.

Trade deficit = Capital surplus

And the additional benefit of operating this way is we continue to secure our position as a global trade currency.
 
#1,019
#1,019
The current system hasn’t been the best arrangement for the long term interests of the US. The problem is we cannot just start manufacturing again overnight. It will take generations to get back the talent to do it right in the US.

However, any one who is under the impression this is the US being unreasonable is not tuned into reality. Work for a truly global industrial and you’ll see first hand the expense incurred and the hoops that must be jumped through to minimize the onerous tariff and tax impacts of other countries.

Next time you’re in Europe look around and try to find an American car dealership. There’s a reason they’ll be very very hard to find.

The US should be happy to enter into a truly free trade agreement with other countries. Don’t tariff us and we won’t tariff you.
 
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#1,022
#1,022
exotic_vols said:
Trump's "leverage" is that the US is the largest economy in the world so everyone wants to do business with the US. If they do, now they need to come to the US. Sounds great except there is one problem. Though the highest, the US only accounts for 26% of the world GDP, about a quarter. Now watch 3/4 of the world plays together without the US.
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Not to mention most people are gonna cut back on spending when everything goes way up in price. This is a cluster****.
 
#1,025
#1,025
hog88 said:
Where did you ever get that I’m a mechanic?

I’m not worried about my 401k. I’m not retiring anytime soon.
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He refers to everyone he goes Joe Joe the chewing gum boy on as “greasemonkey”.

That or “juice box”. It’s a little weird.
 
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