Too much ice

[Sudden Impact]

People have completely lost the plot.
Song: “ICE Genocide”
Who even knows what the definition is anymore? It is just a useless label for lazy people.

Couldn’t post the video because of the language so threw a few screen shots together.
View attachment 810756

She, he or it looks like a 14 year old with nothing to do but to write and sing distasteful songs. Today's youth at its finest. The answer is not to take them out back and shoot them but to discipline them and its parents. Must have been a snow day. I need attention plea more than anything.

 

[allstar34]

I'm moving back to Richmond in a month.

I can fix her.

Let me know how that goes
Best of luck, watch out for needles.

 

[Orange_Crush]

ok prove the bolded. It’s been said numerous in this thread as a way to distract from an unarmed man being murdered, yet nobody has proved it and when asked they deflect or don’t even answer. Obstructing a federal operation would be a big deal and would clear up on what lead to the pepper spray

Here she and another are inserting themselves into the operation, onto the road that ICE was trying to clear for their operation, blowing whistles.



Here is a video of the agents trying to clear the road just before the altercation. This is Pretti being moved from the operation:



Here is Pretti, for some reason coming back into the road that ICE has been trying to clear during their operation.




If you're trying to make the argument that ICE did not have the authority to clear the area, and thus Pretti had the right to physically engage the agent:






I'd love to see you walk up on the police when they are trying to apprehend a suspect, start blowing whistles into their ears, repeatedly defying orders to clear the area, and then put your hands on one of them when they finally physically force someone to obey their commands to clear the area.

No. I wouldn't love to see that. That was rhetorical. I'd especially not like to see you try to do that while armed, because you'd probably get yourself shot.

 

[MAD]

She, he or it looks like a 14 year old with nothing to do but to write and sing distasteful songs. Today's youth at its finest. The answer is not to take them out back and shoot them but to discipline them and its parents. Must have been a snow day. I need attention plea more than anything.

It’s like a renaissance of the 60’s folk song Vietnam protests movement or something.

 

[Smokey123]

Here she and another are inserting themselves into the operation, onto the road that ICE was trying to clear for their operation, blowing whistles.

View attachment 810762

Here is a video of the agents trying to clear the road just before the altercation. This is Pretti being moved from the operation:



Here is Pretti, for some reason coming back into the road that ICE has been trying to clear during their operation.

View attachment 810763


If you're trying to make the argument that ICE did not have the authority to clear the area, and thus Pretti had the right to physically engage the agent:

View attachment 810764
View attachment 810766



I'd love to see you walk up on the police when they are trying to apprehend a suspect, start blowing whistles into their ears, repeatedly defying orders to clear the area, and then put your hands on one of them when they finally physically force someone to obey their commands to clear the area.

No. I wouldn't love to see that. That was rhetorical. I'd especially not like to see you try to do that while armed, because you'd probably get yourself shot.

You’re aware the suspect was already in the car and cuffed during your screen shots right? So what did they physically impede? I didn’t say they can’t try to clear the area. The courts have already ruled in public space you have every right to film and yell as long as you don’t physically impede them. You didn’t show that at all

But anyways so she was arrested for obstruction or?

 

[Orange_Crush]

You’re aware the suspect was already in the car and cuffed during your screen shots right?

So?

So what did they physically impede?

Failing to clear the area when ordered to is considered obstruction of justice. They had the right to clear the area.

I didn’t say they can’t try to clear the area.

Good. They can.

The courts have already ruled in public space you have every right to film and yell as long as you don’t physically impede them.

Have the courts said that law enforcement can't clear the immediate area where they are operating--i.e. the road that they were clearing? It's my understanding that the courts have stated that they can stand a reasonable way away while obeying lawful orders. Clearing the road they were operating in would likely be considered a lawful order, unless you could show otherwise.

You didn’t show that at all

Again, failure to repeatedly obey orders to clear the immediate area of the operation is obstruction. If a LEO wants to pop in and correct me, I'm open to that of course.

But anyways so she was arrested for obstruction or?

I have no idea. That is a red herring, unless you are trying to make the argument that clearing her from the area was not the action of a federal agent's lawful duties, thus Pretti had the right to physically engage him.

 

[MAD]

Anybody see the video that shows Pretti from 10 days ago at another protest? Looks like he is spitting at ice agents and kicks out a tail light on one of their cars.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Anybody see the video that shows Pretti from 10 days ago at another protest? Looks like he is spitting at ice agents and kicks out a tail light on one of their cars.

DHS has stated they have no documented encounters with Pretti on file prior to his killing.

 

[MAD]

DHS has stated they have no documented encounters with Pretti on file prior to his killing.

It must be fake what I saw


Edit…Probably fake.

 

[NorthDallas40]

It must be fake what I saw

I have no idea but I’m gonna guess with the blatant lying DHS started out with they would love to roll out some factual information if they had it to try and take the heat off of themselves

 

[allstar34]

It must be fake what I saw


Edit…Probably fake.

If you look in the replies, GROK states the video isn't AI.

 

[Smokey123]

So?



Failing to clear the area when ordered to is considered obstruction of justice. They had the right to clear the area.



Good. They can.



Have the courts said that law enforcement can't clear the immediate area where they are operating--i.e. the road that they were clearing? It's my understanding that the courts have stated that they can stand a reasonable way away while obeying lawful orders. Clearing the road they were operating in would likely be considered a lawful order, unless you could show otherwise.



Again, failure to repeatedly obey orders to clear the immediate area of the operation is obstruction. If a LEO wants to pop in and correct me, I'm open to that of course.


I have no idea. That is a red herring, unless you are trying to make the argument that clearing her from the area was not the action of a federal agent's lawful duties, thus Pretti had the right to physically engage him.

ICE has no authority to clear roadways and crowds on their own. That’s why local law enforcement cooperation is a big deal. That’s why courts continue to say these protests are legal and ice can’t shut them down. That’s why it’s important to note the arrest was already made at the time of your screen shot.

It’s not a red herring, your defense of this started by looking at it from a court perspective. You don’t think it’s gonna be brought up that she never got arrested for obstruction? You continue to say they obstructed but haven’t provided anything of substance. A screenshot of them in the road when the suspect was already arrested and in the car is not proof of obstruction

 

[LibertyVol]

Have you committed your three felonies yet today? It’s still a bit early admittedly.

Lol. Now that you made me think about it. I may have committed three in my life. I just didn’t get caught.

 

[Sudden Impact]

Lol. Now that you made me think about it. I may have committed three in my life. I just didn’t get caught.

Care to Share

 

[Orange_Crush]

ICE has no authority to clear roadways and crowds on their own. That’s why local law enforcement cooperation is a big deal. That’s why courts continue to say these protests are legal and ice can’t shut them down. That’s why it’s important to note the arrest was already made at the time of your screen shot.

You're wrong.

It’s not a red herring, your defense of this started by looking at it from a court perspective. You don’t think it’s gonna be brought up that she never got arrested for obstruction?

If it's brought up, I suspect it'll be called incorrect and a red herring. ICE, as federal law enforcement, has the right to clear the areas of their operations. What will matter in court is whether the agent reasonably felt that his or other lives were endangered by wrestling with someone who was armed.

You continue to say they obstructed but haven’t provided anything of substance. A screenshot of them in the road when the suspect was already arrested and in the car is not proof of obstruction

The best I have for you is AI that affirms that ICE has the right to clear the area of their immediate operations, and that refusing to comply is considered obstruction. But again, that'll probably be beside the point. The matter will come down to whether they felt that their lives were endangered by wrestling in closed quarters with someone who turned out to be armed.

Most of my position on this has been by watching several attorneys, one whose specialty is LEO use of force and civilian self-defense use of force cases. It'll take more than your hand waving to change my mind, especially when most of what you're claiming is easily checked with a simple internet search.

 

[Smokey123]

You're wrong.

View attachment 810776



If it's brought up, I suspect it'll be called incorrect and a red herring. ICE, as federal law enforcement, has the right to clear the areas of their operations. What will matter in court is whether the agent reasonably felt that his or other lives were endangered by wrestling with someone who was armed.



The best I have for you is AI that affirms that ICE has the right to clear the area of their immediate operations, and that refusing to comply is considered obstruction. But again, that'll probably be beside the point. The matter will come down to whether they felt that their lives were endangered by wrestling in closed quarters with someone who turned out to be armed.

Most of my position on this has been by watching several attorneys, one whose specialty is LEO use of force and civilian self-defense use of force cases. It'll take more than your hand waving to change my mind, especially when most of what you're claiming is easily checked with a simple internet search.

Show any legal statue that says they have that authority

 

[Delmar]

You're wrong.

View attachment 810776



If it's brought up, I suspect it'll be called incorrect and a red herring. ICE, as federal law enforcement, has the right to clear the areas of their operations. What will matter in court is whether the agent reasonably felt that his or other lives were endangered by wrestling with someone who was armed.



The best I have for you is AI that affirms that ICE has the right to clear the area of their immediate operations, and that refusing to comply is considered obstruction. But again, that'll probably be beside the point. The matter will come down to whether they felt that their lives were endangered by wrestling in closed quarters with someone who turned out to be armed.

Most of my position on this has been by watching several attorneys, one whose specialty is LEO use of force and civilian self-defense use of force cases. It'll take more than your hand waving to change my mind, especially when most of what you're claiming is easily checked with a simple internet search.

Just curious. Which channel were these attorneys on that you were watching?
Fox, OAN or Newsmax?

 

[NorthDallas40]

Lol. Now that you made me think about it. I may have committed three in my life. I just didn’t get caught.

It’s a book. Google “Three Felonies a Day”

 

[Orange_Crush]

Show any legal statue that says they have authority

Show any that says they don't. My initial Googles indicate that they do. They are federal law enforcement.



Again, it would be interesting to see you roll up on law enforcement, insert yourself into the area of their arrest, and refuse repeated orders to back off.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Just curious. Which channel were these attorneys on that you were watching?
Fox, OAN or Newsmax?

None. Their own channels. I posted one Youtube link just a couple of pages ago. But your snark is noted and appreciated. More of VN's wonderful habit of furthering discussion and debate. Pat yourself on the back.

 

[Smokey123]

Show any that says they don't. My initial Googles indicate that they do. They are federal law enforcement.

View attachment 810778

Again, it would be interesting to see you roll up on law enforcement, insert yourself into the area of their arrest, and refuse repeated orders to back off.

You’re the one who claimed they did, the burden of proof is on you. If there’s not a statue that says they do then what does that mean?

Funny you’re using AI now when it’s convenient but earlier when I used it for a summary of a scotus ruling that was wrong

 

[Smokey123]

But since AI is fine to use now here ya go.



1. ICE’s Authority Comes From Specific Federal Statutes


The primary federal statute that defines what ICE officers are empowered to do is 8 U.S.C. § 1357, which grants immigration officers authority to:

• Interrogate someone believed to be an alien about their status.
• Arrest people believed to be violating immigration law under narrowly defined circumstances (e.g., probable cause to believe someone is in the country illegally and may escape before a warrant can be obtained).

What this statute does not do:

It does not give ICE the power to control public movement, manage crowds, or clear pedestrians generally.

ICE’s federal authority is tied to immigration enforcement tasks, not broad public order functions.

2. Federal Law Does Not
Grant ICE Police-Type Power Over Public Spaces
Unlike state and local police — who are given police power by state law to regulate behavior, enforce order, and control traffic or crowds — ICE has no such “police power.” Under U.S. constitutional law, general public order authority belongs primarily to state and local governments under the Tenth Amendment. Federal agencies like ICE have limited law-enforcement powers that must be grounded in specific statute.


Federal immigration statutes do not include a provision that allows ICE to:

• Issue general “move along” orders to bystanders
• Clear pedestrians from public streets
• Disperse crowds in the absence of an immediate safety threat tied to their enforcement activity

There is no clause in 8 U.S.C. § 1357 or similar federal law authorizing ICE to perform these functions.

3. ICE Must Still Comply With Constitutional Limits

Even though ICE has authority to arrest people under federal immigration law:

• Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable searches and seizures still apply in public spaces. Federal agents must have reasonable suspicion or probable cause depending on the level of interaction.
• ICE cannot just detain or command movement of random pedestrians without a legitimate, lawful enforcement reason and constitutional basis.

This is the same constitutional standard that applies to state/local police.

4. ICE’s Legal Limits Are Recognized by Legal Analysts
Legal overviews confirm that:

• ICE does not have general police authority like local police do.
• Its powers are limited to what federal statutes and the Constitution expressly authorize.

Nothing in the statutory framework grants ICE free-form authority to clear people from public roads or order someone to move simply because they are present in a public space.

 

[NorthDallas40]

SIAP the two agents involved in the shooting who were at first moved out of MN and put on administrative duty have now been put on administrative leave. So they are not on the job at all right now.

Minneapolis live updates: 2 Border Patrol agents who fired guns in Alex Pretti fatal shooting put on leave

Follow live updates on a preliminary Department of Homeland Security report sent to Congress on Alex Pretti’s fatal shooting in Minnesota that said two officers fired their guns during the struggle.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Smokey123]

ICE Can legally do:

Arrest persons suspected of immigration violations under specific statutory criteria.

Question or briefly detain someone with reasonable suspicion of a violation.
Arrest or detain anyone — including U.S. citizens — who actively obstructs or interferes with their lawful duties (under separate criminal statutes such as obstruction of federal officers).

ICE Cannot legally do:

Issue general “move back” or “clear this area” orders to pedestrians simply for being present.
Manage or clear public streets or crowds as a matter of general authority.


Use immigration statutes as a basis for broad crowd control in the way municipal police might under state law.

 

[NorthDallas40]

But since AI is fine to use now here ya go.



1. ICE’s Authority Comes From Specific Federal Statutes


The primary federal statute that defines what ICE officers are empowered to do is 8 U.S.C. § 1357, which grants immigration officers authority to:

• Interrogate someone believed to be an alien about their status.
• Arrest people believed to be violating immigration law under narrowly defined circumstances (e.g., probable cause to believe someone is in the country illegally and may escape before a warrant can be obtained).

What this statute does not do:

It does not give ICE the power to control public movement, manage crowds, or clear pedestrians generally.

ICE’s federal authority is tied to immigration enforcement tasks, not broad public order functions.

2. Federal Law Does Not
Grant ICE Police-Type Power Over Public Spaces
Unlike state and local police — who are given police power by state law to regulate behavior, enforce order, and control traffic or crowds — ICE has no such “police power.” Under U.S. constitutional law, general public order authority belongs primarily to state and local governments under the Tenth Amendment. Federal agencies like ICE have limited law-enforcement powers that must be grounded in specific statute.


Federal immigration statutes do not include a provision that allows ICE to:

• Issue general “move along” orders to bystanders
• Clear pedestrians from public streets
• Disperse crowds in the absence of an immediate safety threat tied to their enforcement activity

There is no clause in 8 U.S.C. § 1357 or similar federal law authorizing ICE to perform these functions.

3. ICE Must Still Comply With Constitutional Limits

Even though ICE has authority to arrest people under federal immigration law:

• Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable searches and seizures still apply in public spaces. Federal agents must have reasonable suspicion or probable cause depending on the level of interaction.
• ICE cannot just detain or command movement of random pedestrians without a legitimate, lawful enforcement reason and constitutional basis.

This is the same constitutional standard that applies to state/local police.

4. ICE’s Legal Limits Are Recognized by Legal Analysts
Legal overviews confirm that:

• ICE does not have general police authority like local police do.
• Its powers are limited to what federal statutes and the Constitution expressly authorize.

Nothing in the statutory framework grants ICE free-form authority to clear people from public roads or order someone to move simply because they are present in a public space.

@McDad this quoted post and the post just above.