Too much ice

#9,527
#9,527
Orange_Crush said:
I'm using loaded language? lol

I've watched the video for myself. He engaged a LEO who was engaged with someone else. He and that someone else were pepper sprayed. When they tried to arrest him (presumably for assaulting a federal agent), he resisted, which is why there were so many agents trying to subdue him. While engaged with a resisting suspect who'd initiated engagement with a federal LEO, he was found to be armed.

That is not loaded language. That is a description of the video. I suspect it'll be very close to how it will be described to the grand jury, as they watch various angles of the slowed video. from there, the process will necessitate that the grand jury look at those facts through the agents' perspective, and apparently it will be up to the prosecutor to prove that the agents should not have reasonably felt themselves or the other officers to be in immediate danger.
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He wasn't fighting anyone, much less so at the moment he was shot multiple times in the back with his hands underneath his body. Kind of hard to fight from the position.

I know cops get away with claiming they were in fear for their lives and killing people a lot under highly questionable circumstances, because the system is rigged in their favor. However if you can watch that video and think this is a clean shoot the only explanation is buying state propaganda hook, line and sinker.
 
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#9,529
#9,529
Orange_Crush said:
I'm using loaded language? lol

I've watched the video for myself. He engaged a LEO who was engaged with someone else. He and that someone else were pepper sprayed. When they tried to arrest him (presumably for assaulting a federal agent), he resisted, which is why there were so many agents trying to subdue him. While engaged with a resisting suspect who'd initiated engagement with a federal LEO, he was found to be armed.

That is not loaded language. That is a description of the video. I suspect it'll be very close to how it will be described to the grand jury, as they watch various angles of the slowed video. from there, the process will necessitate that the grand jury look at those facts through the agents' perspective, and apparently it will be up to the prosecutor to prove that the agents should not have reasonably felt themselves or the other officers to be in immediate danger.
Click to expand...
 
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#9,533
#9,533
MercyPercy said:
He wasn't fighting anyone, much less so at the moment he was shot multiple times in the back with his hands underneath his body. Kind of hard to fight from the position.

I know cops get away with claiming they were in fear for their lives and killing people a lot under highly questionable circumstances, because the system is rigged in their favor. However if you can watch that video and think this is a clean shoot the only explanation is buying state propaganda hook, line and sinker.
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It’s hilarious that hands at your head (while you’re being pepper sprayed/hit with the can) is being framed as physically assaulting and resisting. Nevermind the fact the moment he was on the ground they shot him in less than 15 seconds and he was never told he was under arrest from the start
 
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#9,534
#9,534
Orange_Crush said:
I personally believe in constitutional carry. I also recognize the state of the laws on the books. One can describe both. I don't know the particulars of the specific posts being criticized so won't comment further.

Have a nice day, I hope you are well.
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I am thank you and I hope you are also. I’m going to take that last sentence as you saw my self imposed dish of crow. To chest pump a bit I found it on FB not here but after my exchange I was like “aw dammit I can’t let this go unacknowledged”

I was only providing my own anecdotal information on why I’ve called out the staunch 2a people it is of course not all encompassing
 
#9,535
#9,535
MercyPercy said:
He wasn't fighting anyone, much less so at the moment he was shot multiple times in the back with his hands underneath his body. Kind of hard to fight from the position.

I know cops get away with claiming they were in fear for their lives and killing people a lot under highly questionable circumstances, because the system is rigged in their favor. However if you can watch that video and think this is a clean shoot the only explanation is buying state propaganda hook, line and sinker.
Click to expand...
So, it's your argument that being forcibly subdued by multiple agents != resisting/fighting?

This is him engaging the officer.

1769614988097.png

This is multiple agents trying to subdue someone that you seem to be claiming has gone completely passive and submitting to arrest:

1769615114980.png
 
#9,536
#9,536
NorthDallas40 said:
A tweet from Bill Melugin has already indicated that many of the rank and file within DHS believe this will result in a bad shoot. That’s a somewhat informal peer review. That tweet came out either Sunday or Monday.

But all of the distraction RE firearm laws are completely irrelevant to what actually occurred.
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Still haven’t had anyone tell me if ICE or Border Patrol carry Tasers. If not seems like if they did it might of saved someone’s life when they were trying to arrest Pretti
 
#9,541
#9,541
NorthDallas40 said:
I am thank you and I hope you are also. I’m going to take that last sentence as you saw my self imposed dish of crow. To chest pump a bit I found it on FB not here but after my exchange I was like “aw dammit I can’t let this go unacknowledged”

I was only providing my own anecdotal information on why I’ve called out the staunch 2a people it is of course not all encompassing
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I saw it. You are obviously free to do so. I just see no need for more extended debate.
 
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#9,544
#9,544
Orange_Crush said:
So, it's your argument that being forcibly subdued by multiple agents != resisting/fighting?

This is him engaging the officer.

View attachment 810704

This is multiple agents trying to subdue someone that you seem to be claiming has gone completely passive and submitting to arrest:

View attachment 810706
Click to expand...

See if you don't have a physical reaction getting tackled to the ground and beat on. Simply defending yourself is construed as resisting/fighting. I repeat, at no point in the video did he use any violence against the agents. They were using a ton of violence against him (and the woman they tossed to the ground) and he never even raised his fists. You make it sound like he was beating up on them and attacking them when it's the complete opposite.

Is struggling on the ground while agents dog pile you and hit you grounds for resisting arrest? In this screwed up system, probably. It's not grounds for dumping a mag into his back.
 
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#9,545
#9,545
MercyPercy said:
He wasn't fighting anyone, much less so at the moment he was shot multiple times in the back with his hands underneath his body. Kind of hard to fight from the position.

I know cops get away with claiming they were in fear for their lives and killing people a lot under highly questionable circumstances, because the system is rigged in their favor. However if you can watch that video and think this is a clean shoot the only explanation is buying state propaganda hook, line and sinker.
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Bro, VN is so much better when you put people on ignore. The officer "engaged" the woman, but Alex "assaulted" the officer.

He's begging you to put him on ignore.
 
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#9,549
#9,549
MercyPercy said:
See if you don't have a physical reaction getting tackled to the ground and beat on. Simply defending yourself is construed as resisting/fighting. I repeat, at no point in the video did he use any violence against the agents. They were using a ton of violence against him (and the woman they tossed to the ground) and he never even raised his fists. You make it sound like he was beating up on them and attacking them when it's the complete opposite.

Is struggling on the ground while agents dog pile you and hit you grounds for resisting arrest? In this screwed up system, probably. It's not grounds for dumping a mag into his back.
Click to expand...
Yes, actually.

No, actually. I made it sound like he engaged an officer who was engaged with someone else, and resisted arrest and fought back while armed. That's literally what happened, and the "while armed" is what escalated this beyond him getting scraped up, locked up, and hiring a lawyer, claiming excessive force.

Yes, actually.

It may be if you've engaged LEOs while they are performing their lawful duties while armed. That ratchets things up to an entirely new level.

It is absolutely a screwed-up system. That's why you try to stay out of it, and if you willfully put yourself into it, you are raising the stakes immensely by doing so while armed.

If it was a bad shooting, I hope they say so and charges are brought. I'm just saying that in this system and the standards, I'm not convinced it will be found legally unjustified. Prepare yourselves if it's not. It'll help to know the standards it was being held to, as opposed to a knee-jerk "protecting their own" assumption. That's wehy I hope it goes through the entire process.
 
#9,550
#9,550
n_huffhines said:
Bro, VN is so much better when you put people on ignore. The officer "engaged" the woman, but Alex "assaulted" the officer.

He's begging you to put him on ignore.
Click to expand...
Do you want to use the technical terms, or not? A LEO reacting to someone that is trying to prevent them from doing their job is not legal "assault". Physically engaging (a term I used for Pretti's actions as well) is defined as felonious assault on a LEO. Don't like it? Send your representatives a sternly worded email.
 
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