Too much ice

[NorthDallas40]

I didn't mention when he'd been disarmed. I said that I haven't been able to ascertain (1) when one of the agents knew that he was armed, or (2) if/when the initial agent yelled "gun!" as training would dictate. Again, my questions were centered on whether the initial firing agent reasonable thought that Pretti was armed at the time he shot. The "disarmed" point is misdirected, as it's obvious that the disarming agent didn't shoot him, and right now, he's the only one that I KNOW knew Pretti was disarmed.

That has been addressed also. The agent that fired first had the agent that removed the weapon and the victim in his field of view. He would have to be blind to not see it he had the best view in the house. I’m talking about the same agent that has a subdued Pretti in an execution pose in the image below. The agent kneeling on the right isn’t the one who retrieved the gun he has already left. The agent on the ground is the one that remained after he was executed. This image is never going away and will be worn out this election year.

Edit: image removed because it was an altered image

Another edit: altered image compared to original still

 

[NorthDallas40]

Bullseye

And in this case from a hip fire too! Woohoo!

 

[utvolpj]

Don't you jump all over posters posting false crap?

More of a joke but it was reported as such. However they did confirm training is 6days/wk for 8wks. The math...

 

[jp1]

Where he says you must comply and allow every act of authorities to happen without ever getting in the way?

The fact is the gun shouldn't even be brought up on the discussions. It is funny to hear the right wing description of it though. Bessent was particularly entertaining

Then you have video of poorly trained agents feeling as though they can assault anyone without repercussions. That's the real issue yet we're supposed to sit by and simply watch according to the video.

Better trained agents doing a real public service would have at worst made Pretti spend the night in jail. What we got was a perfect example of the current admin and their leadership

I think its fair to say that even the best trained experts in any field make mistakes. I work in a hospital and can tell you many stories that didnt have the expected outcome, from some very experienced colleagues (including me). I dont know how well trained, or poorly trained these guys were. I know the outcome wasn't good, and should be evaluated as such. It appears that we have problems on both sides of the fence that needs looked at.

 

[hog88]

More of a joke but it was reported as such. However they did confirm training is 6days/wk for 8wks. The math...

The 47 day training was only for applicants with LE experience.

 

[Delmar]

Nah it’s way more fun to point at the idiocy and mock it.

You are a better man than me ND. I don’t have the time nor the patience nor the interest to do that 500 times a day. Nor am I interested in reading the pontifications, podcasts or sermons from right or left wing randos whose bread is nowhere close to done. I’ll let you do it for me.

 

[BeardedVol]

He actually slightly changed some of my perspectives on the matter. I wanted to share a perspective that each listener could either engage with, or not. You seem to be choosing the latter. That's cool, obviously. Whatever floats your VN canoe.

Now I'm curious, what's the timestamp of this opinion-changing profundity?

 

[Rickyvol77]

That has been addressed also. The agent that fired first had the agent that removed the weapon and the victim in his field of view. He would have to be blind to not see it he had the best view in the house. I’m talking about the same agent that has a subdued Pretti in an execution pose in the image below. The agent kneeling on the right isn’t the one who retrieved the gun he has already left. The agent on the ground is the one that remained after he was executed. This image is never going away and will be worn out this election year.

View attachment 810700

That's an AI image though

 

[BeardedVol]

Would that make you an appeal to false authority. It describes you pretty good from reading the definition

Appeal to False Authority

Using an alleged authority as evidence in your argument when the authority is not really an authority on the facts relevant to the argument.

www.logicallyfallacious.com

You didn't actually look up who "Walter Hudson" is, did you?

 

[Orange_Crush]

That has been addressed also. The agent that fired first had the agent that removed the weapon and the victim in his field of view. He would have to be blind to not see it he had the best view in the house. I’m talking about the same agent that has a subdued Pretti in an execution pose in the image below. The agent kneeling on the right isn’t the one who retrieved the gun he has already left. The agent on the ground is the one that remained after he was executed. This image is never going away and will be worn out this election year.

View attachment 810700

He very well was likely 'blinded'. Violent encounters cause specific sensory responses, including rushing sounds in the ears and tunnel-vision. These responses are the brain's survival instinct putting all of its focus on the perceived threat. If you see a snake at your feet, you're likely not going to see the pebbles it's crawling on.

I will be very clear. If it was a bad shoot, I hope the agent is charged. I'm just trying to post my understanding of the standard that they will be held to, which includes seeing things through the perceptions of the agents, without hindsight benefit. Don't be surprised if this is ruled justified. It'll help everyone involved to understand why, if that in fact occurs.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Don't you jump all over posters posting false crap?

I took you at your word but have found this

How a 47-day ICE training claim spread — and what the record actually shows - Poynter

Training was cut under Trump, but the timeline and number of days differ depending on who’s reporting and how it’s counted

www.poynter.org

 

[utvolpj]

The 47 day training was only for applicants with LE experience.

So what did I post that was so fake? The 8wks is basic training for them all. I didn't see anything that said it was only for former le

 

[NorthDallas40]

That's an AI image though

I haven’t seen that debunked. If you have proof and can supply it I’ll take a look.

 

[allstar34]

We can put a stop to the violence from both sides today. It will require firm and immediate enforcement of the law to be accomplished. When individuals interfere with ICE officers who are lawfully traveling to or making arrest, they should be taken into custody right away. Quick and consistent arrests send a clear message that violence and obstruction will not be tolerated, while peaceful protest remains protected. Enforcing the law evenly helps restore order, reduce chaos, and ensure public safety for protesters, officers, and the community. The best solution, is the way it should have been handled from the start…

Carry out your mission, if you are interfered with; immediately arrest the offender. Ice has made bad decisions and so have the protestors. Once these people see that the law will be enforced immediately, things will calm down. As long as everything is followed strictly by law, you have every right to be as aggressive as you want to accomplish the mission. Lock every offender up.

 

[NorthDallas40]

He very well was likely 'blinded'. Violent encounters cause specific sensory responses, including rushing sounds in the ears and tunnel-vision. These responses are the brain's survival instinct putting all of its focus on the perceived threat. If you see a snake at your feet, you're likely not going to see the pebbles it's crawling on.

I will be very clear. If it was a bad shoot, I hope the agent is charged. I'm just trying to post my understanding of the standard that they will be held to, which includes seeing things through the perceptions of the agents, without hindsight benefit. Don't be surprised if this is ruled justified. It'll help everyone involved to understand why, if that in fact occurs.

A tweet from Bill Melugin has already indicated that many of the rank and file within DHS believe this will result in a bad shoot. That’s a somewhat informal peer review. That tweet came out either Sunday or Monday.

But all of the distraction RE firearm laws are completely irrelevant to what actually occurred.

 

[Smokey123]

He very well was likely 'blinded'. Violent encounters cause specific sensory responses, including rushing sounds in the ears and tunnel-vision. These responses are the brain's survival instinct putting all of its focus on the perceived threat. If you see a snake at your feet, you're likely not going to see the pebbles it's crawling on.

I will be very clear. If it was a bad shoot, I hope the agent is charged. I'm just trying to post my understanding of the standard that they will be held to, which includes seeing things through the perceptions of the agents, without hindsight benefit. Don't be surprised if this is ruled justified. It'll help everyone involved to understand why, if that in fact occurs.

I don’t think it’d surprise anyone. They’re always ruled justified

 

[Orange_Crush]

Now I'm curious, what's the timestamp of this opinion-changing profundity?

I gave a full post describing it. It wasn't so much opinion-changing, as verbalizing some nuance well. But I'll ask again, if I'd done nothing more than post an argument that I agreed with, but thought was well-presented, why should that open the post to criticism?

 

[NorthDallas40]

That's an AI image though

Ok Reuters has a debunking on this image I’ll edit my post. Now to fully frame the alter they put an object in his hand, but regardless it is an altered image.

Fact Check: Verified footage showing Alex Pretti’s death edited to alter object in hand - https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/...is-death-edited-alter-object-hand-2026-01-27/

 

[Orange_Crush]

A tweet from Bill Melugin has already indicated that many of the rank and file within DHS believe this will result in a bad shoot. That’s a somewhat informal peer review. That tweet came out either Sunday or Monday.

Good for them. Like I said, if it was a bad shot, I hope it's found to be so. The country needs faith in the system.

But all of the distraction RE firearm laws are completely irrelevant to what actually occurred.

Then why are the detractors making such a big deal about it with the "fake 2A bootlicker" sentiments? It's irrelevant until one has to counter the thought that him engaging LEOs while armed wasn't INCREDIBLY ill advised and irresponsible. Again, one can hold that (1) one has the right to go armed, (2) one should do so responsibly, and (3) that responsibility makes one partially culpable in the results of your actions, having gone armed.

I would assume that both sides can agree on 2 and 3, at the very least.

 

[NorthDallas40]

You are a better man than me ND. I don’t have the time nor the patience nor the interest to do that 500 times a day. Nor am I interested in reading the pontifications, podcasts or sermons from right or left wing randos whose bread is nowhere close to done. I’ll let you do it for me.

I’m retired. It’s become a hobby and has always been a guilty pleasure

 

[MercyPercy]

You failed to answer any of my questions in favor of using emotional vagaries and attributing motives to me. I'll try again.

Your loaded language to start off in your scenario involves fighting, which is you insinuating he was fighting the agents when the reality was he himself was the one being attacked. I didn't see him throw any punches, I didn't see him attack anyone. You're being 100% disingenuous and you know it.

You're circling the wagons for the administration. Sad.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Good for them. Like I said, if it was a bad shot, I hope it's found to be so. The country needs faith in the system.



Then why are the detractors making such a big deal about it with the "fake 2A bootlicker" sentiments? It's irrelevant until one has to counter the thought that him engaging LEOs while armed was INCREDIBLY ill advised and irresponsible. Again, one can hold that (1) one has the right to go armed, (2) one should do so responsibly, and (3) that responsibility makes one partially culpable in the results of your actions, having gone armed.

I would assume that both sides can agree on 2 and 3, at the very least.

The fake 2a boot licker comments from me are based on the “shall not be infringed” speed of light pivot to “well of course you have to have a permit”. That’s about the most solid example of hypocrisy I’ve seen in a while.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Your loaded language to start off in your scenario involves fighting, which is you insinuating he was fighting the agents when the reality was he himself was the one being attacked. I didn't see him throw any punches, I didn't see him attack anyone. You're being 100% disingenuous and you know it.

You're circling the wagons for the administration. Sad.

I'm using loaded language? lol

I've watched the video for myself. He engaged a LEO who was engaged with someone else. He and that someone else were pepper sprayed. When they tried to arrest him (presumably for assaulting a federal agent), he resisted, which is why there were so many agents trying to subdue him. While engaged with a resisting suspect who'd initiated engagement with a federal LEO, he was found to be armed.

That is not loaded language. That is a description of the video. I suspect it'll be very close to how it will be described to the grand jury, as they watch various angles of the slowed video. from there, the process will necessitate that the grand jury look at those facts through the agents' perspective, and apparently it will be up to the prosecutor to prove that the agents should not have reasonably felt themselves or the other officers to be in immediate danger.

 

[Orange_Crush]

The fake 2a boot licker comments from me are based on the “shall not be infringed” speed of light pivot to “well of course you have to have a permit”. That’s about the most solid example of hypocrisy I’ve seen in a while.

I personally believe in constitutional carry. I also recognize the state of the laws on the books. One can describe both. I don't know the particulars of the specific posts being criticized so won't comment further.

Have a nice day, I hope you are well.

 

[hog88]

I took you at your word but have found this

How a 47-day ICE training claim spread — and what the record actually shows - Poynter

Training was cut under Trump, but the timeline and number of days differ depending on who’s reporting and how it’s counted

www.poynter.org

Would be nice to get someone on the record to clarify. But just per that article they eliminated Spanish language training so IDK what that has to do with actual LE training they receive.