Too much ice

#5,030
#5,030
Orange_Crush said:
Good grief. "ICE are demons. They are not human beings."

LITERALLY demonizing and dehumanizing their chosen enemies.
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It’s funny how the left accuses people of being Nazis while running the Nazis playbook.

Step one. Name your enemy as both subhuman and your oppressor at the same time.
 
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#5,031
#5,031
Orange_Crush said:
If you're accusing "the right" of being for law and order, and standing against anarchist violence, then... is it really an accusation?
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That's precisely what's happening.

I'm for small government. But the federal government has basically ONE ****ING JOB, and that's defend and secure the borders of the nation.

ANY small government constitutionalist should agree. Without that basic function there's no point in pretending to be a country at all.
 
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#5,036
#5,036
Orange_Crush said:
It started as a left wing ideology, and it's apparently still a left-wing ideology. Authoritarian disregard for individual human rights in favor of the collective.

But that's an insufficient definition, and 'fascist' doesn't really fit the modern, violent extreme left either. Fascists and Nazis were nationalist socialist ideologies, and the modern violent, radical left wing agitators are not nationalists. Communism, Nazism and Fascism were all authoritarian, violent socialist ideals. This latest resembles all of them, but without the nationalistic underpinnings in favor of anarchy instead.
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Where do you get that Fascism and Naziism are leftist, at the Charlie Kirk School of Economics for Kids Who Can't Think Good? They're far right and Naziism is a form of Fascism. Naziism is Socialism in name only. The difference between Fascism and Socialism is that while Fascism is government controlled by the owners of the means of production (MIC, Big Tech, etc.) and is Rightist, Socialism is government control of the means of production and is Leftist.
Look, here's a link to someone who agrees. Note the mention of corporatism.:
anthropoidtour.com

DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NAZISM AND FASCISM - WWII Anthropoid Tour

Fascism and Nazism are two ideologies that emerged in the 20th century, but there is a diffrence between them
anthropoidtour.com anthropoidtour.com
 
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#5,037
#5,037
Love being lectured about lavish lifestyles, clothing and being comfortable by losers like this guy, while one of the other “agitators” is rocking a Canada Goose Parka. If you’re not familiar with the brand, they go for about $1400+ at your local Neiman Marcus or Nordstrom. I guess that Soros $$ is paying well or she got it with a 5 finger discount .

 
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#5,041
#5,041
Franklin Pierce said:

Viral video shows ICE Agent telling Agitators they're disrupting arrest of Child Sex Offender In Minnesota​


A viral video circulating on social media Sunday appeared to show agitators interfering with an Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) operation targeting an alleged child sex offender in Minnesota.

The video, posted to X and viewed more than 750,000 times within hours, shows an ICE agent confronting people in St. Paul who he said were honking their car horns and disrupting federal officers as they attempted to take a suspect into custody.

"We're here to arrest a child sex offender and you guys are out here honking," the agent says in the video.


www.foxnews.com

Viral video shows ICE agent telling agitators they're disrupting arrest of child sex offender in Minnesota

Viral video shows alleged interference with ICE operation targeting suspected child sex offender in Minnesota. Federal agents confronted by protesters.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
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Was the sex offender one of the pardoned Jan 6 rioters?

It's almost like if you go after Moms all day instead of sex offenders that the people lose faith in your propensity to target sex offenders.
 
#5,043
#5,043
Orange_Crush said:
Not sure who that guy is, but... Anyone here not think that guy is despicable, raise your hand.
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That’s the difference. We will call out idiots. Even idiots that identify as being Republican. He’s an insignificant idiot who seeks attention, we would never elect someone like him unlike the left who elected a man acting like a woman.
 
#5,044
#5,044
tim said:
That’s the difference. We will call out idiots. Even idiots that identify as being Republican. He’s an insignificant idiot who seeks attention, we would never elect someone like him unlike the left who elected a man acting like a woman.
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I'll hang up and listen for you to call out Emperor Dumbf*** for trying to shove his angry inch in Greenland over a Nobel Peace Prize.
 
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#5,045
#5,045
Orange_Crush said:
Honest question. How so?
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a bunch of things imo, mileage will vary per person per point. some of it is directly hostile, other parts just feed into a more negative opinion of something most people were neutral at worst about before.

1. being an active presence on the street. its one thing to exist and work on the sidelines, its another to be an active presence running around doing things. not directly hostile, but being more active, increases awareness.
2. wearing masks. again not directly hostile, but it completely changes the perception of them. people, citizens, don't want the face of the government to be a faceless man. especially an armed one whose sole job is to snatch people off the streets.
3. a lot of their targets are just ordinary people. people know a lot of these otherwise non-criminal illegal aliens, probably lived and worked with them for years/decades. its one thing to see a gang banger grabbed, its another to see the nice lady who works the convenience store you went to every day for 4 years get grabbed. you aren't going to remain one of the "good guys" going after non-problematic individuals, at best they look like the busy body HOA looking to see if your trash can is too far from the curb so they can send you back to Mexico. again not hostile, but its not endearing. and its generally not the process people are used to seeing arrests/detainments. normal would be knocking on the door, showing the warrant, and leading them out; that is the VAST exception with ICE.
4. their methods, they have been seizing people once they leave immigration/citizenship courtrooms who were on the right path and in good standing. the admin has ended legal status to get rid of more immigrants. its bad policy to change the rules during the game. if XYZ policy was bad, just end it for new people. let the people who were here legally remain in the system as they were doing it right, until the government took it away from them. ICE being the active face of that again hurts them. I have this as non-violent but considering these people were doing what the system asks, and were punished for it, its borderline. and it breaks down the trust in the overall government.

as for the actively hostile part.
5. they are treating every arrest like its a raid on a gang hideout. tons of videos of them kicking down doors, throwing flashbangs and etc, and walking out with like one abuela. its a gross misapplication of force. it comes across as violence for the sake of violence.
6. the fact that these raids are also happening out in the public, dragging customers out of restaurants. its one thing to bust down one door, but when you are disrupting citizens and workplaces in violent manners (knocking over tables and citizens just to grab a seated individual) that ruffles feathers.
7. the Goode shooting. it probably is legal and justified, but its a bad bad look. especially with the response to it by ICE. they could have handled it miles better from a PR perspective. a quick/quiet (paid) suspension while it was being reviewed, some words about it being an unfortunate situation that is being reviewed while stating the intent is not to get violent but officers have a right to defend themselves. none of that self reflection was given by ICE or the admin regarding the shooting. that makes it feel like ICE is a violent agency, rather than border control.
8. even when engaged with normal citizens who aren't involved in any protest ICE takes a very bully like stance. they seem to embody the worst of the cops, those who enjoy being in power over others, without any of the positive light like saving citizens from danger. I have two second hand accounts of citizens dealing with ICE. both said they were bullies to the extreme, who think wearing a badge gives them privileges and power over citizens outside of their law enforcement duties.
 
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#5,046
#5,046
EasternVol said:
Where do you get that Fascism and Naziism are leftist, at the Charlie Kirk School of Economics for Kids Who Can't Think Good? They're far right and Naziism is a form of Fascism. Naziism is Socialism in name only. The difference between Fascism and Socialism is that while Fascism is government controlled by the owners of the means of production (MIC, Big Tech, etc.) and is Rightist, Socialism is government control of the means of production and is Leftist.
Look, here's a link to someone who agrees. Note the mention of corporatism.:
anthropoidtour.com

DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NAZISM AND FASCISM - WWII Anthropoid Tour

Fascism and Nazism are two ideologies that emerged in the 20th century, but there is a diffrence between them
anthropoidtour.com anthropoidtour.com
Click to expand...
From the founders. I linked to an article yesterday that quotes both Mussolini and Gentile's collectivist underpinning of the idealogy, and blatant refutation of any capitalist associations. Mussolini left the Socialist party and established fascism as a nationalistic version of replacement for his contemporary socialism.

fee.org

There's No Denying the Socialist Roots of Fascism

The father of fascism himself literally said it. “Fascism is a form of socialism, in fact, it is its most viable form.”
fee.org fee.org

Practically everyone knows that Karl Marx is the ideological father of communism and socialism and that Adam Smith is the father of capitalism and economic liberalism. Do you know, in contrast, who the mind behind fascism is? It’s very likely that you don’t, and I can tell you in advance that the philosopher behind fascism was also an avowed socialist.

Giovanni Gentile, a neo-Hegelian philosopher, was the intellectual author of the “doctrine of fascism,” which he wrote in conjunction with Benito Mussolini. Gentile’s sources of inspiration were thinkers such as Hegel, Nietzsche, and also Karl Marx.

Gentile went so far as to declare “Fascism is a form of socialism, in fact, it is its most viable form.” One of the most common reflections on this is that fascism is itself socialism based on national identity.
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Fascism claimed to oppose liberal capitalism, but also international socialism, hence the concept of a “third way,” the same position that would be held by Argentine Peronism years later. This opposition to international socialism and communism is precisely what has caused so much confusion in the ideological location of fascism, Nazism, and also Peronism. Having opposed the traditional internationalist Marxist left, these were attributed to the current of ultra-right movements, when the truth is that, as has been demonstrated, their centralized economic policies obeyed collectivist and socialist principles, openly opposing capitalism and the free market, favoring nationalism and autarchy.

In that sense, as established by the philosopher creator of fascist ideology, Giovanni Gentile, fascism is another form of socialism, ergo, it was not a battle of left against right, but a struggle between different left-wing ideologies, an internationalist and a nationalist one.

In fact, in 1943, Benito Mussolini promoted the “socialization of the economy,” also known as fascist socialization; for this process Mussolini sought the advice of the founder of the Italian Communist Party, Nicola Bombacci; the communist was the main intellectual author of the “Verona Manifesto,” the historical declaration with which fascism promoted this process of economic “socialization” to deepen anti-capitalism and autarchism, and in which Italy became known as the “Italian Social Republic.”

On April 22, 1945 in Milan, the Fascist leader would declare the following:
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“Our programs are definitely equal to our revolutionary ideas and they belong to what in democratic regime is called “left”; our institutions are a direct result of our programs and our ideal is the Labor State. In this case there can be no doubt: we are the working class in struggle for life and death, against capitalism. We are the revolutionaries in search of a new order. If this is so, to invoke help from the bourgeoisie by waving the red peril is an absurdity. The real scarecrow, the real danger, the threat against which we fight relentlessly, comes from the right. It is not at all in our interest to have the capitalist bourgeoisie as an ally against the threat of the red peril, even at best it would be an unfaithful ally, which is trying to make us serve its ends, as it has done more than once with some success. I will spare words as it is totally superfluous. In fact, it is harmful, because it makes us confuse the types of genuine revolutionaries of whatever hue, with the man of reaction who sometimes uses our very language.”
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Edit: I'll add that I have no clue how anyone seriously pawned Fascism as a Right-wing ideology:

Using this definition:

The left-right political axis is a spectrum for classifying political positions, originating from the French Revolution, where the left generally favors social change, equality, and government intervention for social safety nets, while the right typically supports tradition, individual liberty, and limited government, with the center representing a balance of these views. It's a relative concept, not absolute, with left-wing associated with progress/liberalism (more government, higher taxes, welfare) and right-wing with conservatism (less government, tradition, market-driven solutions).
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So, the right is generally known as anti-collectivist, prioritizing individual rights via limited government over the needs of society. Fascism was a collectivist/socialist philosophy that crushed personal human rights in favor of the authority and needs of the gov't/society. So it was obviously a far-right ideology.
 
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#5,047
#5,047
DinkinFlicka said:
I'll hang up and listen for you to call out Emperor Dumbf*** for trying to shove his angry inch in Greenland over a Nobel Peace Prize.
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Method isn’t ideal, end game is important. Although, the method seems to be working now that Europe is sending a few troops to Greenland.

We always disagree where it’s warranted. Unlike the dems, when the talking points come out everyone is spewing them, even the news. However, I’d still like for you to hang up.
 
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#5,049
#5,049
tim said:
Method isn’t ideal, end game is important. Although, the method seems to be working now that Europe is sending a few troops to Greenland.

We always disagree where it’s warranted. Unlike the dems, when the talking points come out everyone is spewing them, even the news. However, I’d still like for you to hang up.
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This isn't an "end justifying the means" scenario. Our diplomatic reliability is on a troubling trajectory, and I don't think you're considering the long term ramifications that come with it.
 
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