To Protect and to Serve...

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#11,276
#11,276
YorkVol said:
I don't expect a thoughtful answer from you, but no, you wouldn't need to shut down a classroom for the day. Instruction could continue in another classroom while they settled the issue in private. I'm sure her parents do teach that, but since we don't know the initial infraction (have heard it was cell phone use in class) we don't know who is right or wrong. We just know who got tossed out of the room and locked up in jail.
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We know who was wrong.... The girl was asked to leave the room.... As for another room.... Most schools are overcrowded and there is no free room
 
#11,277
#11,277
YorkVol said:
Good points. In therapy training you learn to look for the difference between the content and the process. Most of the time in these situations there is a reason that the student won't move and the student believes they are acting rationally and are somehow in the right. That is the process that gets missed because we are only paying attention to the content(i.e. her refusal to move).

To be effective (I'm assuming teachers and staff want to be effective with students) you have to address the process as best you can. For example in this type of situation, step back and say "ok, hold on, we have a class to teach and we can't do that if you continue to stay in your chair and for your privacy and ours we need to address this situation in private (content). We don't understand why you refuse to move but are willing to listen once we get to the office. Is there anyone in the building that could help move this along? Or is there someone I can get on the phone so we can move out and let the class resume? (process)"

That question tells the student that we recognize there is something else going on underneath the refusal and gives them a way out of the situation.

Unfortunately we are in a period of reacting strongly to the content without even thinking there may be some process happening internally. Teachers, administrators and school resource officers get offended way too easily when their authority is challenged without even thinking there may be a good reason for that authority to be challenged. Don't think, just obey, otherwise...
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There's a lot to like in this approach but it still seems to be a bit assumptive in places. For instance, how easy is it to just move a whole class somewhere else? The pointed question many would ask is why should the person be afforded the luxury of displacing an entire class because they don't want to be bothered to leave the class on their own?

A lot of what you said we agreed on in #3 from last post, meaning there need not (indeed, should not) be a rush to go from talking to physical altercation after the first refusal to leave one's seat. I also like the idea that maybe someone like a counselor could take a swing at it even before an RSO be called in.* Still, I'm just a little ambivalent about the idea that someone can simply decide things are supposed to go their way and it's everybody else's responsibility to at best deal with any inconvenience it may cause or at worst have people bending over backwards to the point of snapping vertebrae.

*In the having everybody leave/privacy aspect does that not run the risk of having someone in that situation feeling even more isolated/surrounded/under duress? I suppose that's a case by case call but I can easily see how some might take it that way.
 
#11,280
#11,280
Good thing those heroes executed that vile criminal that they set up for a sting with a small amount of the Devil's Lettuce. God bless our stormtroopers keeping us safe.
 
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#11,284
#11,284
MercyPercy said:
Welp, she was wrong so she deserved to get treated the way she did.

Beast going full beast on this one.
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I can see both sides of this one....I understand why people would be upset and at the same time I wouldn't be upset if it happened to one of my kids....I would be upset with my child....I honestly don't know the appropriate approach
 
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#11,285
#11,285
SamRebel35 said:
This girl has learned a lot in that class. She learned that violence is most certainly a reasonable way to handle conflict. She learned that police can be trusted to use brutality as a means to handle minor disputes. And she learned that school really does suck as much as she thought. This form of "discipline" is not likely to help this girl start seeing things differently. If anything, it has probably confirmed her previous thoughts and has emboldened her against the institution even further. Job well done teacher and resource officer.
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In your world she would have learned that being disruptive and a detriment to others has no consequence at all. She could just continue to make a mockery of the teacher and disrupt class as long as she wanted..... Hell ..... You'd probably even give her a Tootsie Roll pop if she did a really good job...... Or maybe brought in a warm fuzzy little kitten to try and get her to stop.
 
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#11,287
#11,287
tumscalcium said:
Cool. First answer.

This girl clearly didn't want to be moved. Maybe that would have worked, maybe not. Both are hypothetical scenarios. Let's say for instance she prevents that from happening. What then?
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Well there is a a YouTube video of the guy bench pressing 600 pounds so I am sure it wouldn't have been an issue
 
#11,290
#11,290
volbeast33 said:
They already suffer the same consequences.....women who are not found fit for their kids to stay in the home have to pay child support to the father and have the same punishments if they don't meet their obligations...Within the last twenty years or so judges will typically order joint custody if both parties are able to provide a stable home and does not disrupt the child's life too much. In that situation, no child support is ordered. Child support is ordered when one person has full custody. It is a formula that takes into account both parents earnings and makes them pay according to what each parent earns. it is done on a percentage so the more you make then the more that you will pay. It really doesn't matter that she shouldn't spread her legs or that he shouldn't go after the easy piece of action that he does not care about. What is important is that the kids are taken care of.
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that statement isn't true, I currently have joint custody, and still pay child support, and there was no shared calculation on what her salary was...

the state has a % based on number of children, and it's a simple calculation based on gross pay
 
#11,291
#11,291
hndog609 said:
I'm not particularly comfortable with what happened in that video but what had she "learned" before that happened? That whatever she wants is what she gets? That rules don't apply to her? That actions she takes that interfere with the lives of others is something she can engage in without repercussion? I'm not particularly impressed with that POV either.

So, and this is a dead honest question (for anyone), exactly what action (or escalation of action) would have been deemed appropriate in this case?
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The one thing that jumps out at me is the other students should have been removed from the room, before the officer pulled her out of the desk
 
#11,292
#11,292
vol_in_ar said:
that statement isn't true, I currently have joint custody, and still pay child support, and there was no shared calculation on what her salary was...

the state has a % based on number of children, and it's a simple calculation based on gross pay
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That does suck if you have the kids the exact number of days and still have to pay. I have two friends that have joint custody and pay nothing....when I went through they took both incomes into consideration.... My ex was telling me how I was going to be owing her all this money and was pissed bc I was paying more before the court order....
 
#11,293
#11,293
FLVOL69 said:
Talk to me, what's the scoop TC?
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I caught a glimpse of talking heads then the scrolling marquee. Going off what they reported.... Apparently she had her phone out and using it was told to put it away and flat out said no. An admin person came in and spoke to her telling her she needs to put it away and still refused. The cop assigned to the school was called in. Apparently this cop is well liked among many, many students and they've made posts supporting him (can't confirm, haven't looked myself but they posted a couple) and he tried reasoning with her for a while. She, some of this on new video, is defiant as hell, talks back yadda yadda and strikes the cop before he ultimately subdues her. High school student mind you.

She's going to make quite the productive and positive woman some day. Lol

I'll keep checking though, I only like reporting on facts. But this was CNN so it surprised me.
 
#11,294
#11,294
vol_in_ar said:
that statement isn't true, I currently have joint custody, and still pay child support, and there was no shared calculation on what her salary was...

the state has a % based on number of children, and it's a simple calculation based on gross pay
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Couple things here I have questions on:

Arkansas ver rarely gives joint custody. When the state does, no support is generally owed
(Do you cover health care maybe)

If you are indeed one of the few they allowed joint custody to, congrats.

If you could help a brother out and give more details I would appreciate it. I'm looking at being in your shoes.
 
#11,295
#11,295
Obsessed said:
Couple things here I have questions on:

Arkansas ver rarely gives joint custody. When the state does, no support is generally owed
(Do you cover health care maybe)

If you are indeed one of the few they allowed joint custody to, congrats.

If you could help a brother out and give more details I would appreciate it. I'm looking at being in your shoes.
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Sorry OB! Prayers man
 
#11,296
#11,296
volbeast33 said:
That does suck if you have the kids the exact number of days and still have to pay. I have two friends that have joint custody and pay nothing....when I went through they took both incomes into consideration.... My ex was telling me how I was going to be owing her all this money and was pissed bc I was paying more before the court order....
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must be different in TN
 
#11,297
#11,297
tumscalcium said:
I caught a glimpse of talking heads then the scrolling marquee. Going off what they reported.... Apparently she had her phone out and using it was told to put it away and flat out said no. An admin person came in and spoke to her telling her she needs to put it away and still refused. The cop assigned to the school was called in. Apparently this cop is well liked among many, many students and they've made posts supporting him (can't confirm, haven't looked myself but they posted a couple) and he tried reasoning with her for a while. She, some of this on new video, is defiant as hell, talks back yadda yadda and strikes the cop before he ultimately subdues her. High school student mind you.

She's going to make quite the productive and positive woman some day. Lol

I'll keep checking though, I only like reporting on facts. But this was CNN so it surprised me.
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Thanks👍
 
#11,299
#11,299
Obsessed said:
Couple things here I have questions on:

Arkansas ver rarely gives joint custody. When the state does, no support is generally owed
(Do you cover health care maybe)

If you are indeed one of the few they allowed joint custody to, congrats.

If you could help a brother out and give more details I would appreciate it. I'm looking at being in your shoes.
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I was awarded joint custody but the child support is calculated off the state's chart, I also have both kids on my insurance, and we split an uninsured cost for medical, dental or prescriptions

if you think your going down this road, you need to talk to an attorney ASAP

good luck, we still need to do lunch at RePete's
 
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