To Protect and to Serve...

[Grand Vol]

Is this a real question?

Not especially. It's rhetorical.

However, there is enough going on right now without having more people go off the deep end since a white cop shot a black homeowner. Even if the conditions (as reported) seem to make it a valid shoot.

This has nothing to do with race.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

At least the homeowner survived. Lesson learned.

 

[agent|orange]

Standing there holding your firearm when responding officers arrive isn't very smart.

So the homeowner, who just suffered a break-in, was standing in his house with his firearm. That is something he is completely and legally protected to do.

While this is a bad situation for both parties, if I was the homeowner, I would absolutely not relinquish my firearm until I positively identified the cops as cops.

Did the homeowner raise the weapon to the cop? Did the cop only shout "POLICE COMING IN" and then just storm in and shoot the first black dude with a gun he saw?

Who knows.

This is why we need to film every incident with police. I am not saying I distrust the officer who shot the guy but FFS this is getting to the point of "you cannot defend your home".

 

[agent|orange]

At least the homeowner survived. Lesson learned.

Okay, so, lets play scenario.

Criminal rolls up on your house with an illegitimate police uniform on. He says "POLICE OPEN UP" and then kicks in the door.

If you say "lesson learned" you better not try to defend your house. Forget the Right to Bear Arms and Castle Doctrine. You have just relinquished those.

You must fully submit to any chance it's a cop. Because he'll shoot first and ask questions later. You also better hope it is actually a cop. Otherwise you just gave him the keys to your kingdom.

And I find your name about as completely ironic as possible. Well done, DEFENDTHISHOUSE.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

So the homeowner, who just suffered a break-in, was standing in his house with his firearm. That is something he is completely and legally protected to do.

While this is a bad situation for both parties, if I was the homeowner, I would absolutely not relinquish my firearm until I positively identified the cops as cops.

Did the homeowner raise the weapon to the cop? Did the cop only shout "POLICE COMING IN" and then just storm in and shoot the first black dude with a gun he saw?

Who knows.

This is why we need to film every incident with police. I am not saying I distrust the officer who shot the guy but FFS this is getting to the point of "you cannot defend your home".

I'm one of the more outspoken critics of police on this forum. The actions of the homeowner were foolish. Cops receive a call of a man with a gun trying to break into a house, when responding officers show up and man with a gun comes out. Cops do not know if you're a good guy or bad guy. Leave the firearm inside the house, there is defending your house, and there is being foolish. At least the chap survived.

 

[hog88]

Not especially. It's rhetorical.

However, there is enough going on right now without having more people go off the deep end since a white cop shot a black homeowner. Even if the conditions (as reported) seem to make it a valid shoot.

This has nothing to do with race.

Race, sex and blood equals ratings.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

Okay, so, lets play scenario.

Criminal rolls up on your house with an illegitimate police uniform on. He says "POLICE OPEN UP" and then kicks in the door.

If you say "lesson learned" you better not try to defend your house. Forget the Right to Bear Arms and Castle Doctrine. You have just relinquished those.

You must fully submit to any chance it's a cop. Because he'll shoot first and ask questions later. You also better hope it is actually a cop. Otherwise you just gave him the keys to your kingdom.

And I find your name about as completely ironic as possible. Well done, DEFENDTHISHOUSE.

"The homeowner, later identified as Bryan Heyward, came out of the back door with a gun and the officer told him to drop it, Sheriff's Maj. Eric Watson said."

I don't care about your little scenario, the actions above after calling police is stupid.

 

[hog88]

"The homeowner, later identified as Bryan Heyward, came out of the back door with a gun and the officer told him to drop it, Sheriff's Maj. Eric Watson said."

I don't care about your little scenario, the actions above after calling police is stupid.

Yes.

 

[Carl Pickens]

"The homeowner, later identified as Bryan Heyward, came out of the back door with a gun and the officer told him to drop it, Sheriff's Maj. Eric Watson said."

I don't care about your little scenario, the actions above after calling police is stupid.

I totally agree......

 

[Grand Vol]

"The homeowner, later identified as Bryan Heyward, came out of the back door with a gun and the officer told him to drop it, Sheriff's Maj. Eric Watson said."

I don't care about your little scenario, the actions above after calling police is stupid.

Yep, you want that ride in the Bearcat don't you?

 

[tim]

"The homeowner, later identified as Bryan Heyward, came out of the back door with a gun and the officer told him to drop it, Sheriff's Maj. Eric Watson said."

I don't care about your little scenario, the actions above after calling police is stupid.

Everyone who has more than 6 months on the job has encountered the good guy with a gun scenario and no one (usually) was shot.... Makes me ask if there was any communication with the dispatcher concerning the home owner and him being armed...

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

Yep, you want that ride in the Bearcat don't you?

Thug life.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

I completely understand protecting your home. I also understand most people don't have very good gun handling skills. Perhaps the guys adrenaline was up and he didn't even realize he was still holding the pistol, it happens. Maybe he pointed the pistol in the direction the robber went, and the cop took it wrong, who knows, people do crazy things when involved in highly emotional situations. The point remains, if you call the cops, don't step outside with a gun in your hand, just don't do it. Follow ups will be interesting.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

More details.

S.C. officials investigating after white deputy shot black man who called 911 - The Washington Post

 

[agent|orange]

"The homeowner, later identified as Bryan Heyward, came out of the back door with a gun and the officer told him to drop it, Sheriff's Maj. Eric Watson said."

I don't care about your little scenario, the actions above after calling police is stupid.

After some of the "This happened" and was filed in an official report and then video from a 3rd Party was released showing something completely different... I'm hesitant to just say "oh, okay, a cop who shot someone said this happened and he's the only witness so I totally believe that".

And the dude didn't know how long it might take cops to get there or if the robbers were going to come back. I could definitely understand the homeowner being jilted and on-edge. He has every right to be armed in his own home.

I'm simply saying that, without video showing what happened, at this point I'm honestly suspicious of every "yeah, dude grabbed my taser" or "yeah, dude raised his weapon" or "IDGAF, dude popped an attitude" encounter where a cop shot a guy.

All I know is if I was a cop I'd buy and wear my own GoPro as verification of my own word. Everything I do as a citizen and professionally in my job is audited by another entity using evidence.

Everything a cop does should also be audited. Especially when they raise and fire their weapon.

I will say that the media jumping onto this and forcing race into the narrative is both expected and despicable. A cop shot a legally armed citizen in his home. Lets focus on that.

Well, and congratulating cops for actually getting the house right and not actually killing him.

 

[agent|orange]

I completely understand protecting your home. I also understand most people don't have very good gun handling skills. Perhaps the guys adrenaline was up and he didn't even realize he was still holding the pistol, it happens. Maybe he pointed the pistol in the direction the robber went, and the cop took it wrong, who knows, people do crazy things when involved in highly emotional situations. The point remains, if you call the cops, don't step outside with a gun in your hand, just don't do it. Follow ups will be interesting.

There are unkowns. However, until/unless video comes out it'll be one cops word against a guy that lives in a trailer. We know what will be said and we know how this will end.

 

[Grand Vol]

More details.

S.C. officials investigating after white deputy shot black man who called 911 - The Washington Post

Not really much more than the original article.

Lessons to take away (not saying they are all relevant in this case)

If you call 911, stay on the line with the dispatcher. They will typically be in contact with the officers and let you know when they arrive. Which negates the moronic argument posted earlier about "the intruders could be posing as cops."

Once they arrive, verify with the dispatcher "I see X amount of units/officers from this agency." They will let you know whether or not that's the correct agency and number of officers.

Do not leave the house until the dispatcher says you should make contact with the officers. Or wait until they knock on the door. If the dispatcher instructs you to meet the officers, give them a description of what you're wearing and your physical characteristics before stepping out.

Do NOT go out with a weapon. Period, end of story.

Obey the commands of the officer if you are met outside. They are likely trying to figure out who you are and have no idea whether you are a perp that broke in or the occupant of the house. If they tell you to get on the ground, do so without backtalk. If they handcuff you, let them do so until they get everything sorted out. I know this would be hard for some of the more indignant folks on here, but it will take time to sort things out. Patience is a virtue.

Just two cents from someone who just might know what they're talking about.

 

[Grand Vol]

There are unkowns. However, until/unless video comes out it'll be one cops word against a guy that lives in a trailer. We know what will be said and we know how this will end.

Don't stop making yourself look like an ass at this point. You should keep up the good work.

 

[agent|orange]

What is with all the hard-liner Harry Hardasses on here that always having to resort to ad hominem?

Seriously.

Make y'all look really insecure.

But then again being a former cop and seeing story after story after story after story (after story after story) of your former brothers being lords of the law must get really tiring. Especially when you see all these people talking about "their rights" and "their liberties". How dare those stupid citizens want to hold us to a higher standard of the law.

Must get really frustrating for you, huh?

 

[agent|orange]

Not really much more than the original article.

Lessons to take away (not saying they are all relevant in this case)

If you call 911, stay on the line with the dispatcher. They will typically be in contact with the officers and let you know when they arrive. Which negates the moronic argument posted earlier about "the intruders could be cops."

Once they arrive, verify with the dispatcher "I see X amount of units/officers from this agency." They will let you know whether or not that's the correct agency and number of officers.

Do not leave the house until the dispatcher says you should make contact with the officers. Or wait until they knock on the door. If the dispatcher instructs you to meet the officers, give them a description of what you're wearing and your physical characteristics before stepping out.

Do NOT go out with a weapon. Period, end of story.

Obey the commands of the officer if you are met outside. They are likely trying to figure out who you are and have no idea whether you are a perp that broke in or the occupant of the house. If they tell you to get on the ground, do so without backtalk. If they handcuff you, let them do so until they get everything sorted out. I know this would be hard for some of the more indignant folks on here, but it will take time to sort things out. Patience is a virtue.

Just two cents from someone who just might know what they're talking about.

Bold statement given you were a cop.

 

[Grand Vol]

Bold statement given you were a cop.

Forgive my lack of clarification on that. I meant to say "posing as cops."

Thanks for pointing that out. I'll fix it.

 

[apevol]

Fwiw I really don't like cops, and have more reason to dislike them than most here...and although gv pisses me off sometimes, he really doesn't come off as that bad a guy.

 

[agent|orange]

Forgive my lack of clarification on that. I meant to say "posing as cops."

Thanks for pointing that out. I'll fix it.

And I was, of course, just ribbing you a bit and poking the bear.

I've said it on here probably 100x but I do feel than an overwhelming majority of cops are good people who legitimately do want to serve their community and uphold the law.

But there are a lot of cops in this country and even if 95% of them are good people, those 5% can do a lot of damage and ruin it for everyone. And, lets be honest, 95% is an optimistic outlook for any profession.

Cops simply need to be held accountable for their behavior... both good and bad. A bodycam showing the cop handling himself and the victim acting irrationally would help out the police in this instance enormously.

Though it's at a financial cost, I do believe that cops should wear bodycams. It's for their protection as well as the proection of the citizens as a whole.

 

[Cdywolfe]

I feel the same way about this one that I do the white guy that got shot in Nashville (there was a thread about it). On the surface it appears as though there was no malicious intent and I have zero evidence that would lead me to believe otherwise.

With that said… In both instances, we're basically forced to take the cops' word for it regarding how it all went down. That always leaves me with a certain level of suspicion. I'm not at all saying the shootings weren't justified but, with that in mind, I'm not fully willing to just except that they were either.

I'm sorry to those that don't like that but I'll tell you how that can be fixed. Start flushing out officers that don't mind bending the truth. As long as cops who fabricate stories to make incidents fit their narrative go unpunished, or get a slap on the wrist, I'll question just about everything that comes out of their mouth.

 

[Carl Pickens]

Don't stop making yourself look like an ass at this point. You should keep up the good work.

He's had a banner day today......all kinds of ass records fell