To Protect and to Serve...

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I'm trying to pass the buck? Really? You think I would continue to attempt to defend any actions and be subjected to the idiocy that is rampant in this thread if I thought I was passing the buck?

There are two sides to this coin. You either ignore the greater problem (the politicians) and continue the ignorance of blaming LE on everything wrong. Or you see the greater problem is the fact the powers that LE have are derived from politicians. And by proxy, the people in the end. And if the people aren't demanding answers or reform from the politicians, what will change?

Exactly nothing. So you think I'm passing the buck onto the politicians? The buck stops right at the people my friend. The people that continue to elect those same politicians and judges that reduce their Constitutional Rights. The people allow their elected officials that in turn allow the local LE to get away with some of the things they do. You think I'm passing the buck? You're just as guilty as you think I am in the end. I'm a child? You're also a child that allows it to happen in the first place by continuing to elect officials and judges that perpetuate the problem.

Next you'll say I'm complicit with the behavior since I must agree with it. And like it or not, LE are duty bound to enforce the law. And the vast majority do so justly and without incident. Does that make me agree with a vast many things that go on? No. I really don't like a lot of the laws on the books today. Unfortunately, when I signed up I took the good with the bad. And as each situation was different, my response to each situation was different. And I do know an illegal order or law and when not to enforce it. Sadly the perception around here is all LE are little more than jack booted thugs waiting to stomp on the necks of the citizen and tear away their Rights. And nothing could be further from the truth.

So you just sit there and blame the sword for the hand that wields it and continue to be blind to the greater problem. Sure LE has the discretion to warn for minor violations of the law as you pointed out. Minor violations only. The way you make it sound is LE can just let someone go if they have ten kilos of coke in their trunk. Because "they probably won't do anyone harm here." And you know what that kind of attitude gets them? A pink slip as a minimum. Jail time if someone wanted to press the matter. They cannot pick and choose what laws they want to enforce even as archaic as some truly are. If the public demands they enforce the right of way for a horse and buggy, LE has no choice in the matter. Now for the most part the laws that are still on the books that are overtaken by modern events are not enforced. Mainly because it's ignorant to do so. When you were an officer, you had no control over violations of the UCMJ you could let slip if someone wanted to press the matter. Dereliction of duty for example. Like it or not, archaic or not, it was still the law and you were duty bound to correct instances if brought to your attention. Now you could use your own authority to warn or correct the behavior. But you also had the authority and duty to bring it to a higher level if the instance was severe enough.

And this made you different from LE how?

You are correct, individual LEOs cannot let some things slip, if others know about it, or they lose their job. So, they should give up their jobs. I know I acted immorally in the military and when I wised up to that fact, I got out. Taking away someone's life/liberty simply because the alternative is losing your job is a moral justification.

As for the problem of legislation, I'm not blind to that problem. However, that does not entail that I will simply give the police a pass, since, in the end, "they are just doing their job". Their job is largely bull **** and tyrannical.
 
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I'm trying to pass the buck? Really? You think I would continue to attempt to defend any actions and be subjected to the idiocy that is rampant in this thread if I thought I was passing the buck?

There are two sides to this coin. You either ignore the greater problem (the politicians) and continue the ignorance of blaming LE on everything wrong. Or you see the greater problem is the fact the powers that LE have are derived from politicians. And by proxy, the people in the end. And if the people aren't demanding answers or reform from the politicians, what will change?

Exactly nothing. So you think I'm passing the buck onto the politicians? The buck stops right at the people my friend. The people that continue to elect those same politicians and judges that reduce their Constitutional Rights. The people allow their elected officials that in turn allow the local LE to get away with some of the things they do. You think I'm passing the buck? You're just as guilty as you think I am in the end. I'm a child? You're also a child that allows it to happen in the first place by continuing to elect officials and judges that perpetuate the problem.

Next you'll say I'm complicit with the behavior since I must agree with it. And like it or not, LE are duty bound to enforce the law. And the vast majority do so justly and without incident. Does that make me agree with a vast many things that go on? No. I really don't like a lot of the laws on the books today. Unfortunately, when I signed up I took the good with the bad. And as each situation was different, my response to each situation was different. And I do know an illegal order or law and when not to enforce it. Sadly the perception around here is all LE are little more than jack booted thugs waiting to stomp on the necks of the citizen and tear away their Rights. And nothing could be further from the truth.

So you just sit there and blame the sword for the hand that wields it and continue to be blind to the greater problem. Sure LE has the discretion to warn for minor violations of the law as you pointed out. Minor violations only. The way you make it sound is LE can just let someone go if they have ten kilos of coke in their trunk. Because "they probably won't do anyone harm here." And you know what that kind of attitude gets them? A pink slip as a minimum. Jail time if someone wanted to press the matter. They cannot pick and choose what laws they want to enforce even as archaic as some truly are. If the public demands they enforce the right of way for a horse and buggy, LE has no choice in the matter. Now for the most part the laws that are still on the books that are overtaken by modern events are not enforced. Mainly because it's ignorant to do so. When you were an officer, you had no control over violations of the UCMJ you could let slip if someone wanted to press the matter. Dereliction of duty for example. Like it or not, archaic or not, it was still the law and you were duty bound to correct instances if brought to your attention. Now you could use your own authority to warn or correct the behavior. But you also had the authority and duty to bring it to a higher level if the instance was severe enough.

And this made you different from LE how?
You cops could serve a noble purpose and do like the NYPD did and act as a check & balance from a tyrannical legislature. Voting doesnt work as fast or as effectively. You all could litterally turn this country around overnight if you stopped the nonsense. You would earn major brownie points with the public. Instead, you all hide behind the badge and just say blame the politicians.
 
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You are correct, individual LEOs cannot let some things slip, if others know about it, or they lose their job. So, they should give up their jobs. I know I acted immorally in the military and when I wised up to that fact, I got out. Taking away someone's life/liberty simply because the alternative is losing your job is a moral justification.

As for the problem of legislation, I'm not blind to that problem. However, that does not entail that I will simply give the police a pass, since, in the end, "they are just doing their job". Their job is largely bull **** and tyrannical.

But yo... Check it out. There's a big difference between a soldier and a cop. There is no soldier's union, but there sure as hell is a police union. They could do exactly like the NYPD when they unified against de Blasio.
 
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You are correct, individual LEOs cannot let some things slip, if others know about it, or they lose their job. So, they should give up their jobs. I know I acted immorally in the military and when I wised up to that fact, I got out. Taking away someone's life/liberty simply because the alternative is losing your job is a moral justification.

As for the problem of legislation, I'm not blind to that problem. However, that does not entail that I will simply give the police a pass, since, in the end, "they are just doing their job". Their job is largely bull **** and tyrannical.

How do you justify your great morality by accepting your blood...err... college money after you "Got out"?
You've still never adequately explained your high road with this.
 
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You are correct, individual LEOs cannot let some things slip, if others know about it, or they lose their job. So, they should give up their jobs. I know I acted immorally in the military and when I wised up to that fact, I got out. Taking away someone's life/liberty simply because the alternative is losing your job is a moral justification.

If that's your moral line in the sand for lack of a better term, I cannot find a fault with it. Because each person is different as their lines will be as well.

As for the problem of legislation, I'm not blind to that problem. However, that does not entail that I will simply give the police a pass, since, in the end, "they are just doing their job". Their job is largely bull **** and tyrannical.

Perhaps you aren't blind to that problem, but many others surely are. And they continue to focus the blame on the easiest target instead of actually doing something smart for a change.

One of the wisest things I saw come out of Ferguson was a voting registration booth next to the memorial. Instead of rioting, looting and all forms of general stupidity, they were trying to change things the way they should be changed. Now it's very likely they won't get any significant numbers of voters to the polls in the next election as a lot of time will have passed. But they are attempting to change things the way they are supposed to be changed.

You think their job is bull **** and tyrannical. I think it's necessary to prevent the lawless behavior seen in Ferguson (and yes, I am acutely aware of the conditions that set the riots in motion) and elsewhere. Because as soon as you remove the rule of law, the lawless will prevail.
 
You cops could serve a noble purpose and do like the NYPD did and act as a check & balance from a tyrannical legislature. Voting doesnt work as fast or as effectively. You all could litterally turn this country around overnight if you stopped the nonsense. You would earn major brownie points with the public. Instead, you all hide behind the badge and just say blame the politicians.

You could serve a noble purpose and stop posting.
 
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How do you justify your great morality by accepting your blood...err... college money after you "Got out"?
You've still never adequately explained your high road with this.

My grad school is funded by Boston University, not the VA.

As for calling the GI Bill "blood money" that's just dumb since all veterans, whether they've seen combat or not, are granted access to those funds. I didn't need them, though.
 
If that's your moral line in the sand for lack of a better term, I cannot find a fault with it. Because each person is different as their lines will be as well.



Perhaps you aren't blind to that problem, but many others surely are. And they continue to focus the blame on the easiest target instead of actually doing something smart for a change.

One of the wisest things I saw come out of Ferguson was a voting registration booth next to the memorial. Instead of rioting, looting and all forms of general stupidity, they were trying to change things the way they should be changed. Now it's very likely they won't get any significant numbers of voters to the polls in the next election as a lot of time will have passed. But they are attempting to change things the way they are supposed to be changed.

You think their job is bull **** and tyrannical. I think it's necessary to prevent the lawless behavior seen in Ferguson (and yes, I am acutely aware of the conditions that set the riots in motion) and elsewhere. Because as soon as you remove the rule of law, the lawless will prevail.

I don't think preventive policing is necessary.
 
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I don't think preventive policing is necessary.

I think that depends on your definition of preventative policing. Just in the last couple of days, people scream about police going after murders and rapists and all sorts of bad ilk. Wouldn't it be far better to prevent those things from happening to start with?
 
I'm not. My PhD is fully funded by Boston University.

Unfortunately, it can't be transferred outside of family members.

I'm surprised you aren't using it for the fringe benefits myself. The BAH would come in handy as a minimum.
 
I think that depends on your definition of preventative policing. Just in the last couple of days, people scream about police going after murders and rapists and all sorts of bad ilk. Wouldn't it be far better to prevent those things from happening to start with?

This depends on what you mean by prevent.
 
This depends on what you mean by prevent.

Probably as I typed it. We don't have thought police or pre-crimes division (yet) but presence patrols do work for the most part when properly applied.

We'll agree to disagree on the speeding thing. But I've seen speed kill. And not just drivers either.
 
Probably as I typed it. We don't have thought police or pre-crimes division (yet) but presence patrols do work for the most part when properly applied.

We'll agree to disagree on the speeding thing. But I've seen speed kill. And not just drivers either.

I don't mind presence patrols and beat cops, but I take issue with hassling citizens over any statute violations in which other persons or property had not been injured/damaged.
 
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I don't mind presence patrols and beat cops, but I take issue with hassling citizens over any statute violations in which other persons or property had not been injured/damaged.

Wouldn't that be the definition of preventative policing though? You see a cop and what's the first thing you do? Look at your speedometer and make sure you're no more than 5-10 over the limit. Not too many people I know floor it as they pass a cop. But either way, the limits are now enforced by mere presence and violations are prevented for the most part.

Take the lady in the video which sparked so much faux outrage. By stopping her, injuries or damage might have been prevented. Is it likely she would have made it to her destination without incident? Probably. But at the same time, who knows what might have happened just the next block over. And as I stated before, what likely would have happened had she been compliant and handed over the requested documents with a piss poor excuse about not seeing the speed limit signs or something? A warning? A ticket which she could take to court and likely get tossed out? Being friendly and sparking up a conversation with said officer and let it slip her husband worked with the local PD?

No, she chose to play the immediate race card and act entirely out of control. Which is, again, what most people ignore in their rush to damn anything LE. Whether you agree with the moving violation traffic code or not, it is the law and generally is there for a good reason other than to raise revenue.
 
Wouldn't it be far better to prevent those things from happening to start with?

We can't even prevent terrorists attacks at the Boston Marathon or Paris with all of the surveillance and violations of civil liberties we have today. How much more surveillance and less liberties do you cops need?
 
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Wouldn't that be the definition of preventative policing though? You see a cop and what's the first thing you do? Look at your speedometer and make sure you're no more than 5-10 over the limit. Not too many people I know floor it as they pass a cop. But either way, the limits are now enforced by mere presence and violations are prevented for the most part.

What about when they hide behind dumpsters in parking lots and shoot radar? That's not preventative in the least. And what about when they harrass or ticket people for warning oncoming drivers of a speed trap? If the true goal is really a safer road, wouldn't they be in favor of people slowing down by any means, even if it doesn't result in a revenue generating ticket?
 
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