To Protect and to Serve...

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#3,276
#3,276
SamRebel35 said:
I'm not following your train of thought.
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You said police should work on enforcement of the "bigger" issues. A local cop is enforcing traffic laws, responding to calls, and basically patrolling his area. What are the bigger issues he should be working on?
 
#3,277
#3,277
SamRebel35 said:
I use the word "fascist" because, if you think it is ok for police to "assassinate" citizens that do not pose a threat, then that is exactly what you are whether you view yourself in such terms or not. And I do look at all of these situations with an open mind. Once I'm convinced, I close up shop until an adequate rebuttal is offered that might make me change my mind. For the record, such rebuttals are what changed my mind several years ago, as I used to be very much in favor of a fascist police force (before I knew what it was). Now I realize what a brick headed swine I was, thus I no longer give every benefit of the doubt to the police. I've heard enough to be convinced that they are very much serving in a far wider scope than they need to, and are given way too much power over our daily lives.
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Sam, I won't disagree with your analysis here, but you, and others on here, take far too narrow of a focus on the problem. It's not just the cops, which tends to be the focus of the anger on here, but rather the all encompassing system. Lawyers, unions, courts and politicians are just as much or more to blame for the current situation than the police. Police didn't take the power for themselves. Judges granted them increased powers. City Councils and Mayors continue to let police forces act out of order. Unions use their power to protect those that should be brought to justice and charged accordingly.

So this whole "police accountability" talk going on right now is a sham. A complete and utter sham to hide the real problems. You don't effect change at the police level. You hold the elected officials accountable. You hold judges, especially those that are elected, accountable for the decisions they make. And you have politicians make good pay decisions on behalf of the police forces to make unions so unappealing officers don't want to join. The talk of referendums on police tactics and whatnot will do zero good if the root problems are not taken into account as well. And until people start holding the politicians to the fire this "trend" will continue.

I don't agree with what happened in NYC. But to focus anger on the police when a judge made the decision is not looking at the big picture.
 
#3,278
#3,278
Grand Vol said:
Sam, I won't disagree with your analysis here, but you, and others on here, take far too narrow of a focus on the problem. It's not just the cops, which tends to be the focus of the anger on here, but rather the all encompassing system. Lawyers, unions, courts and politicians are just as much or more to blame for the current situation than the police. Police didn't take the power for themselves. Judges granted them increased powers. City Councils and Mayors continue to let police forces act out of order. Unions use their power to protect those that should be brought to justice and charged accordingly.

So this whole "police accountability" talk going on right now is a sham. A complete and utter sham to hide the real problems. You don't effect change at the police level. You hold the elected officials accountable. You hold judges, especially those that are elected, accountable for the decisions they make. And you have politicians make good pay decisions on behalf of the police forces to make unions so unappealing officers don't want to join. The talk of referendums on police tactics and whatnot will do zero good if the root problems are not taken into account as well. And until people start holding the politicians to the fire this "trend" will continue.

I don't agree with what happened in NYC. But to focus anger on the police when a judge made the decision is not looking at the big picture.
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I wholeheartedly agree with this, and for the most part, when I am talking about the police force, I am knowingly oversimplifying for the purpose of being concise. The whole system that they operate in is broken. And when I make declarations against the police force, I am meaning it to be against the whole system. The police are the most accessible division to the public, thus they get the most scrutiny.
 
#3,279
#3,279
SamRebel35 said:
I wholeheartedly agree with this, and for the most part, when I am talking about the police force, I am knowingly oversimplifying for the purpose of being concise. The whole system that they operate in is broken. And when I make declarations against the police force, I am meaning it to be against the whole system. The police are the most accessible division to the public, thus they get the most scrutiny.
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But the problem is the vast majority don't look at the big picture. It's a lot easier to blame the "pigs" rather than the root problem.

I don't agree with a lot of tactics being used today. Like the Maryland thing for example posted by Dave. The Maryland cops continued that practice because a judge or a lawyer told them it was okay to do so. And until challenged in the SCOTUS it will continue. It's a violation of the 4th Amendment for certain that was authorized by the judicial system. But it's far easier for most to blame the end user.

So until people wake up and see it's not the police stealing away their Rights, the pattern will continue.
 
#3,280
#3,280
Grand Vol said:
But the problem is the vast majority don't look at the big picture. It's a lot easier to blame the "pigs" rather than the root problem.

I don't agree with a lot of tactics being used today. Like the Maryland thing for example posted by Dave. The Maryland cops continued that practice because a judge or a lawyer told them it was okay to do so. And until challenged in the SCOTUS it will continue. It's a violation of the 4th Amendment for certain that was authorized by the judicial system. But it's far easier for most to blame the end user.

So until people wake up and see it's not the police stealing away their Rights, the pattern will continue.
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GV, just curious if you know whether or not police actually have the ability to access a database showing that someone has a carry permit from another state? For some reason I thought that info was only available to the state within which it was issued.
 
#3,281
#3,281
davethevol said:
GV, just curious if you know whether or not police actually have the ability to access a database showing that someone has a carry permit from another state? For some reason I thought that info was only available to the state within which it was issued.
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It depends. Some States list it on a drivers license check, others don't. Depends on the State.

ETA: If you are asking whether there is a national database, no there isn't. And I'm unaware if Florida lists a CCW as part of the NCIC check when you run a license.
 
#3,282
#3,282
SamRebel35 said:
I've never said anything that could be construed as anti-police regarding the Michael Brown case. I think the police screwed up in the Eric Garner case, but it wasn't murder. They accidentally killed a guy after drawing a hard line in the sand over the enforcement of a petty law. This case looks like murder from where I'm standing, and any explanation for why this guy may have posed a threat will be an extreme reach imo.
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I think the contradiction in your treatise is pretty self evident.
 
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#3,284
#3,284
Grand Vol said:
It depends. Some States list it on a drivers license check, others don't. Depends on the State.

ETA: If you are asking whether there is a national database, no there isn't. And I'm unaware if Florida lists a CCW as part of the NCIC check when you run a license.
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Arkansas ties it to your license and license plates. It's funny really. They know when they pull you over that you are a ccw. But if you fail to advise them and/or present your card (ccw) they can ticket you.
(May be the same in most states)
 
#3,285
#3,285
Obsessed said:
Arkansas ties it to your license and license plates. It's funny really. They know when they pull you over that you are a ccw. But if you fail to advise them and/or present your card (ccw) they can ticket you.
(May be the same in most states)
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You are required in most States to identify to an officer if you are carrying concealed. So I can see why it could be a ticketable offense.

That's a rule I don't mind which makes sense from both sides.
 
#3,286
#3,286
Grand Vol said:
You are required in most States to identify to an officer if you are carrying concealed. So I can see why it could be a ticketable offense.

That's a rule I don't mind which makes sense from both sides.
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Oh I have no issue with it. I think is an appropriate law.
 
#3,287
#3,287
Obsessed said:
Arkansas ties it to your license and license plates. It's funny really. They know when they pull you over that you are a ccw. But if you fail to advise them and/or present your card (ccw) they can ticket you.
(May be the same in most states)
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In TN it's only tied to your driver's license and you don't have to notify.
 
#3,288
#3,288
Obsessed said:
Arkansas ties it to your license and license plates. It's funny really. They know when they pull you over that you are a ccw. But if you fail to advise them and/or present your card (ccw) they can ticket you.
(May be the same in most states)
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My friend claims he got a CC license because he said ticketing someone with CC involves a lot of paper work, and so cops often give you a pass.

Any truth to that?
 
#3,289
#3,289
n_huffhines said:
My friend claims he got a CC license because he said ticketing someone with CC involves a lot of paper work, and so cops often give you a pass.

Any truth to that?
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Not that I'm aware of. I've never had any issues. I'm sure our fellow leo's could advise better.

they just told us the procedure (in ccw class) when an officer approaches. My class was actually taught by a retired FBI agent in little rock.
 
#3,292
#3,292
#3,295
#3,295
volbeast33 said:
That's not true at all.....I whip and ground my kids.....spanking has nothing at all to do with whether or not kids like their parents.
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according to my sister in law psychiatrist - there are many adults that still harbor alot of resentment and hatred toward their parents that used corporal punishment - she claims alot of them say things like let the old goat (or hague -- stronger words than that of course) rot alone for all I care. I guess sometimes it works and sometimes it backfires.
 
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#3,296
#3,296
508mikey said:
according to my sister in law psychiatrist - there are many adults that still harbor alot of resentment and hatred toward their parents that used corporal punishment - she claims alot of them say things like let the old goat (or hague -- stronger words than that of course) rot alone for all I care. I guess sometimes it works and sometimes it backfires.
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The corporal punishment is not the reason though....they lash out at what they consider the bad things that happened during child and corporal punishment is one of them. It's about love....if the parents don't show their kids love then it doesn't matter how u punish them.... I have a blended family ....one girl that lives with her mom but comes over as much as she wants too....two step kids...and a four yr old that is ours...I treat all the kids exactly the same and tell them their is no such word as step, we are family.

My daughter that doesn't live with me....I'm taking to a r5 concert soon for making straight A's on her report card....I also record girl meets world so we can watch "our" show together when she is down( don't laugh) lol....my step son broke his arm playing football and I was the first one on the field....I carried him off the field and helped splint his arm...I spent all day by his side and his real dad called but never showed. My step daughter I work with her on her basketball game constantly and carried her off the court on my shoulders after her last fifth grade game.. She told her mom that she wanted me to walk her down the aisle instead of her dad when she gets married..

My four yr old gets spanked as well but is daddy's little buddy....he is my shadow constantly....it's all about giving of your time and demonstrating love towards your kids when they are good and when u discipline them.
 
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#3,297
#3,297
508mikey said:
according to my sister in law psychiatrist - there are many adults that still harbor alot of resentment and hatred toward their parents that used corporal punishment - she claims alot of them say things like let the old goat (or hague -- stronger words than that of course) rot alone for all I care. I guess sometimes it works and sometimes it backfires.
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I come from a big family. I got the worst of the corporal punishment and I'm not harboring resentment, while some siblings do.

Parents may feel justified in using corporal punishment, but they need to be aware the lasting effect it has on some.
 
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