To Protect and to Serve...

[hog88]

Who pays for it?

Employers, we already pay for our testing program.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

And if there had been fewer barriers to enter the market, there would have been plenty of competitive insurance companies to ensure that the monolithic insurance giants wouldn't be able to price gouge without losing customers in droves.

Ain't it funny that Obolacare didn't provide that little nugget?

 

[agent|orange]

No... I freely admit it is a slippery slope which is probably the biggest reason that I am opposed to Obolacare. Taxpayer treatment of anything health related, ESPECIALLY if it is counter to good health practices shoule not be foisted on the taxpayer. Like I said before, you wanna play Russian Roulette, go for it I DON'T CARE if you blow your brains out, but I do care if I have to foot the bill to keep you on a ventilator the rest of your life. I just want people to exercise a little personal responsibility, but reap the fruits of not doing so on their own $$.

While I definitely agree with the premise of what you're saying you must also acknowledge the potential for abuse from insurance companies.

As a taxpayer that doesn't want to fit the bill for a 400lb obeast, I also don't mind fitting the bill for a fit person that doesn't have insurance and is a college student. I don't mind social programs being a net to catch people that are willful and hard-working contributors to our economy but perhaps work for a company that can't afford good insurance and has to go through very profit-focused insurance providers. What about small businesses that are trying to get off their feet? Have you seen the inordinate amount of money they need to pay for insurance? I'm lucky to have a very good job. I'm healthy and 31. My wife is healthy and 29. No family illnesses.

My company (mid-level engineering firm) pay $10,111/year and I pay $5k/year for insurance. Think about trying to start up a small engineering firm and having to compete against that. While that is BCBS and they've been good so far, I'm not lost to how much money is going to BCBS and how that could (and actually is at current) potentially suffocate other companies.

I don't mind a reasonable national healthcare at all. But I do completely agree that if some lazy @ss wants to eat themselves into oblivion they should be able to and I shouldn't be forced to fit the bill when they go to the hospital for a month due to obesity caused illnesses or disease.

NOTE: I'm not proposing for ObamaCare but I don't mind a nationalized healthcare to catch people that are employed but not insured, small companies that can't afford quality insurance and are losing out on good workers and people who are healthy and covered but are caught in a loophole by their insurance company that is weaseling it's way out of a legitimate claim.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

erberlacurr!

Yes, ACA sucks. But for the love of god, have some originality.

 

[agent|orange]

erberlacurr!

Yes, ACA sucks. But for the love of god, have some originality.

Affordable Care Act is literally ObamaCare is literally EbolaCare is literally a Eugenics Program with Nazi Concentration Camp imagery.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

No... I freely admit it is a slippery slope which is probably the biggest reason that I am opposed to Obolacare. Taxpayer treatment of anything health related, ESPECIALLY if it is counter to good health practices shoule not be foisted on the taxpayer. Like I said before, you wanna play Russian Roulette, go for it I DON'T CARE if you blow your brains out, but I do care if I have to foot the bill to keep you on a ventilator the rest of your life. I just want people to exercise a little personal responsibility, but reap the fruits of not doing so on their own $$.

Again, there are A TON of condition that people developed as a result of a wide array of bad habits. It's entirely unreasonable to try and separate what is covered and what isn't. That line of thinking is what screwed up our healthcare market in the first place.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

Affordable Care Act is literally ObamaCare is literally EbolaCare is literally a Eugenics Program with Nazi Concentration Camp imagery.

Finally, a fresh term. I dig it.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Employers, we already pay for our testing program.

So you are good with another unfunded government mandate that would cause you to spend more of your profits? If it is legalized, there is nothing except your policy that would keep your employees from smoking weed (for example). So the question then begs "How vigorously do you want to prosecute those that do drugs in your company?" Do you have a zero tolerance? Since it would be legal in the .gov's eye but mr hog sez I can't do it... well **** him. It's just a little joint on the weekend.. right? YOU will bear the increased cost of enforcing your policies which run stricter than the law. Unless of course you don't care if your workers get high... in which case.... what do you do again??

 

[DinkinFlicka]

So you are good with another unfunded government mandate that would cause you to spend more of your profits? If it is legalized, there is nothing except your policy that would keep your employees from smoking weed (for example). So the question then begs "How vigorously do you want to prosecute those that do drugs in your company?" Do you have a zero tolerance? Since it would be legal in the .gov's eye but mr hog sez I can't do it... well **** him. It's just a little joint on the weekend.. right? YOU will bear the increased cost of enforcing your policies which run stricter than the law. Unless of course you don't care if your workers get high... in which case.... what do you do again??

You're overcomplicating this. It's still his business.

I smoke occasionally. If it were legal tomorrow, I wouldn't blame warehouse jobs (or anything involving machinery) if they still tested and wanted a drug free workforce.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

While I definitely agree with the premise of what you're saying you must also acknowledge the potential for abuse from insurance companies.

As a taxpayer that doesn't want to fit the bill for a 400lb obeast, I also don't mind fitting the bill for a fit person that doesn't have insurance and is a college student. I don't mind social programs being a net to catch people that are willful and hard-working contributors to our economy but perhaps don't work for a company that can't afford good insurance and has to go through very profit-focused insurance providers.

I don't mind that at all. But I do completely agree that if some lazy @ss wants to eat themselves into oblivion they should be able to and I shouldn't be forced to fit the bill when they go to the hospital for a month due to obesity caused illnesses or disease.

NOTE: I'm not proposing for ObamaCare but I don't mind a nationalized healthcare to catch people that are employed but not insured, small companies that can't afford quality insurance and are losing out on good workers and people who are healthy and covered but are caught in a loophole by their insurance company that is weaseling it's way out of a legitimate claim.

The abuse potential by insurance companies is caused by the inability to compete across state lines. This is by design in Obolacare, because it will allow Hillary or the next socialist president to say to the people "See... the evil insurance companies are gouging you. Let us invoke a single payer system, run by the wonderful efficient federal .gov and paid for by the lazy mean old rich people."

By.... design.....

 

[agent|orange]

You're overcomplicating this. It's still his business.

I smoke occasionally. If it were legal tomorrow, I wouldn't blame warehouse jobs (or anything involving machinery) if they still tested and wanted a drug free workforce.

I drink like a fish at home.

However, it's well within my companies rights (and actually their contractual obligations to our clients/customers) to enforce an alcohol-free workplace. I can't drink at work nor can I imbibe on a lunch break. I can't show up to work drunk.

I would imagine pot would be the same way. Don't be inebriated in any form while at work and you're good.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Again, there are A TON of condition that people developed as a result of a wide array of bad habits. It's entirely unreasonable to try and separate what is covered and what isn't. That line of thinking is what screwed up our healthcare market in the first place.

No it's not. It is the inability to compete and the tort laws.

I do believe that insurance companies should be able to exclude people that do not fit a certain health parameter though and offer lower premiums to those that do, and in a sense we are headed that way. But there needs to be much more along those lines. You, mr smoker should pay a lot more than me for your health insurance.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

I drink like a fish at home.

However, it's well within my companies rights (and actually their contractual obligations to our clients/customers) to enforce an alcohol-free workplace. I can't drink at work nor can I imbibe on a lunch break. I can't show up to work drunk.

I would imagine pot would be the same way. Don't be inebriated in any form while at work and you're good.

Exactly. It's that simple.

Except I can do both before showing (and during) up to my weekend job

 

[hog88]

So you are good with another unfunded government mandate that would cause you to spend more of your profits? If it is legalized, there is nothing except your policy that would keep your employees from smoking weed (for example). So the question then begs "How vigorously do you want to prosecute those that do drugs in your company?" Do you have a zero tolerance? Since it would be legal in the .gov's eye but mr hog sez I can't do it... well **** him. It's just a little joint on the weekend.. right? YOU will bear the increased cost of enforcing your policies which run stricter than the law. Unless of course you don't care if your workers get high... in which case.... what do you do again??

We already pay for our testing program which is federally mandated. Even if it wasn't federally mandated we would continue the policy for two reasons, WC rates and my own aversion to drugs.

I have fired a few violators without a second thought and I'm sure they said **** hog a little weed on the weekend is none of his business.

Again, without employer protection included I would never support legalization.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I drink like a fish at home.

However, it's well within my companies rights (and actually their contractual obligations to our clients/customers) to enforce an alcohol-free workplace. I can't drink at work nor can I imbibe on a lunch break. I can't show up to work drunk.

I would imagine pot would be the same way. Don't be inebriated in any form while at work and you're good.

How do you differentiate that? THC stays in your system for a long time. Alcohol does not. (for practical purpose,s although there are enzymes that can be detected up to a month after a drink)

 

[agent|orange]

The abuse potential by insurance companies is caused by the inability to compete across state lines. This is by design in Obolacare, because it will allow Hillary or the next socialist president to say to the people "See... the evil insurance companies are gouging you. Let us invoke a single payer system, run by the wonderful efficient federal .gov and paid for by the lazy mean old rich people."

By.... design.....

Insurance companies were abusing their responsibilities long before "Obolacare" was put in place.

"Obolacare" only had a market because people were sick of being held at the mercy of insurance companies.

Again, mine is good. I have had zero problems so far with BCBS and think highly of them. They're god-awful expensive but have come through. However, I also know some sub-contractors that don't have BCBS and got held over the coals when they gave birth.

They were fitted with a $35,000 bill (while insured, both employed) during the Bush administration. It's the woman's fault for having a bone spur and an unplanned C-Section! It's her fault she had to stay longer than the approved 2 days! Stupid irresponsible bank employee and engineer. They're such free-loaders.

But, yeah, blame Obama for creating the need for it.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Exactly. It's that simple.

Except I can do both before showing (and during) up to my weekend job

If I give you a drug test after work, how do I know that you didn't smoke on your lunchbreak?

 

[agent|orange]

How do you differentiate that? THC stays in your system for a long time. Alcohol does not. (for practical purpose,s although there are enzymes that can be detected up to a month after a drink)

Create a need to accurately test for current state of mental inebriation that is practical and cheap to perform?

Sounds like a good job industry about to be created to me.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

No it's not. It is the inability to compete and the tort laws.

I do believe that insurance companies should be able to exclude people that do not fit a certain health parameter though and offer lower premiums to those that do, and in a sense we are headed that way. But there needs to be much more along those lines. You, mr smoker should pay a lot more than me for your health insurance.

I come from a long line of smokers. With the exception of two of my uncles (who died of liver cancer), they all lived past 80. I rarely smoke, so I disagree with you. I'd wager based on my exercise, my general diet, and my iron will that I'll outlive the average insured American.

Plus, there wouldn't be a way to determine I was a smoker this early in life.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Insurance companies were abusing their responsibilities long before "Obolacare" was put in place.

"Obolacare" only had a market because people were sick of being held at the mercy of insurance companies.

Again, mine is good. I have had zero problems so far with BCBS and think highly of them. They're god-awful expensive but have come through. However, I also know some sub-contractors that don't have BCBS and got held over the coals when they gave birth.

They were fitted with a $35,000 bill (while insured, both employed) during the Bush administration. It's the woman's fault for having a bone spur and an unplanned C-Section! It's her fault she had to stay longer than the approved 2 days! Stupid irresponsible bank employee and engineer. They're such free-loaders.

But, yeah, blame Obama for creating the need for it.

That's not what I said. What I said is that his "solution" is no solution.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

If I give you a drug test after work, how do I know that you didn't smoke on your lunchbreak?

If you give me a positive drug test, how do you know I wasn't high every second, every minute, every day for 30 ought days prior to the test?

Silly, silly, silly.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I come from a long line of smokers. With the exception of two of my uncles (who died of liver cancer), they all lived past 80. I rarely smoke, so I disagree with you. I'd wager based on my exercise, my general diet, and my iron will that I'll outlive the average insured American.

Plus, there wouldn't be a way to determine I was a smoker this early in life.

I'll betcha that a pulmonologist could take a look at your lungs in a few years and know. They have these real cool inventions called X rays and MRIs..

Look, I couldn't care less if you smoke a few cigs a month or 2 packs a day. It is your choice. But if you get lung cancer, YOU need to foot the bill for the repairs... not mevia a single payer insurance system.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

I'll betcha that a pulmonologist could take a look at your lungs in a few years and know.

Look, I couldn't care less if you smoke a few cigs a month or 2 packs a day. It is your choice. But if you get lung cancer, YOU need to foot the bill for the repairs... not mevia a single payer insurance system.

If you had heart problems as a result of long term bacon consumption, I'd still be fine paying towards your care.

Why? I'm not a morally imposing dickbutt.

 

[Grand Vol]

If you had heart problems as a result of long term bacon consumption, I'd still be fine paying towards your care.

Why? I'm not a morally imposing dickbutt.

Did you make this word up?

Because I'm stealing it.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

If you give me a positive drug test, how do you know I wasn't high every second, every minute, every day for 30 ought days prior to the test?

You are proving my point son. But I can give you a breathalizer and know if you were drinking at work.

Like hog said, If employers have the right to drug test anyone at any time and fire them for a positive... then add that to your list of vices. The world needs ditch diggers too Danny.