To Protect and to Serve...

Status
Not open for further replies.
#8,026
#8,026
hog88 said:
if people can't govern themselves, just who wrote the laws?
Click to expand...

You know as well as I do that without these laws were have in place right now this country would be total anarchy. Very few areas would be livable.... Mostly rural areas. Cities would flipping implode.
 
#8,032
#8,032
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#8,033
#8,033
TNsnyper20 said:
First comment on the page sums this up.
"Firstly, they just took the land from the natives, so there goes respect for property rights. Second, the crime stats son't include slaves/"negroes" or natives killed,raped,beaten,etc.
I'm an anarchist but this is the worst example in favour of it that I have ever seen."
Click to expand...
And you let the over riding point slip past you.

"In conclusion, it appears in the absence of formal government, that the Western frontier was not as wild as legend would have us believe. The market did provide protection and arbitration agencies that functioned very effectively, either as a complete replacement for formal government or as a supplement to that government. However, the same desire for power that creates problems in government also seemed to create difficulties at times in the West. All was not peaceful. Especially when Schelling points were lacking, disorder and chaos resulted, lending support to Buchanan's contention that agreement on initial rights is important to anarchocapitalism. When this agreement existed, however, we have presented evidence that anarchocapitalism was viable on the frontier."

Was the initial taking of land from the Indians wrong? Of course it was, there is no argument there. However, the above quoted point remains.
 
#8,034
#8,034
volbeast33 said:
I personally like traffic laws, and I agree that taxation needs to happen....I do wish the govt was streamlined and budgeted better. People need laws bc they can't govern themselves.
Click to expand...

TNsnyper20 said:
You know as well as I do that without these laws were have in place right now this country would be total anarchy. Very few areas would be livable.... Mostly rural areas. Cities would flipping implode.
Click to expand...

It's the bold that I was referring to. That is a statement I would expect to hear coming from a dictator or democrat. It's an elitist statement.

We have been governing ourselves for over 200 years and WE THE PEOPLE are responsible for the laws on the books and the government we have in place. I fully understand that people need basic laws and government that is why I find the idea of ancap ludicrous.
 
#8,035
#8,035
hog88 said:
It's the bold that I was referring to. That is a statement I would expect to hear coming from a dictator or democrat. It's an elitist statement.

We have been governing ourselves for over 200 years and WE THE PEOPLE are responsible for the laws on the books and the government we have in place. I fully understand that people need basic laws and government that is why I find the idea of ancap ludicrous.
Click to expand...

Gotcha.
 
#8,036
#8,036
hog88 said:
It's the bold that I was referring to. That is a statement I would expect to hear coming from a dictator or democrat. It's an elitist statement.

We have been governing ourselves for over 200 years and WE THE PEOPLE are responsible for the laws on the books and the government we have in place. I fully understand that people need basic laws and government that is why I find the idea of ancap ludicrous.
Click to expand...

I'll agree about laws, such as, a crime is when there is an actual victim on hand to accuse his abuser. I don't know of any ancaps that do not want laws. So there goes that...

The perceived need for government is a slave mentality. Simple as that. You own yourself, and don't need anyone to rule you.
 
#8,037
#8,037
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
And you let the over riding point slip past you.

"In conclusion, it appears in the absence of formal government, that the Western frontier was not as wild as legend would have us believe. The market did provide protection and arbitration agencies that functioned very effectively, either as a complete replacement for formal government or as a supplement to that government. However, the same desire for power that creates problems in government also seemed to create difficulties at times in the West. All was not peaceful. Especially when Schelling points were lacking, disorder and chaos resulted, lending support to Buchanan's contention that agreement on initial rights is important to anarchocapitalism. When this agreement existed, however, we have presented evidence that anarchocapitalism was viable on the frontier."

Was the initial taking of land from the Indians wrong? Of course it was, there is no argument there. However, the above quoted point remains.
Click to expand...

I didn't overlook the point of the article/paper. The populace during the wild west days was quite smaller than what it is now. Do you honestly believe that anarchy would prevail with the number of citizens in this country now.

In my opinion.... Extremely rural areas such as Wyoming, Montana, Alaska etc it MIGHT fly. But it would ultimately fail the country as a whole.
 
#8,038
#8,038
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
I'll agree about laws, such as, a crime is when there is an actual victim on hand to accuse his abuser. I don't know of any ancaps that do not want laws. So there goes that...

The perceived need for government is a slave mentality. Simple as that. You own yourself, and don't need anyone to rule you.
Click to expand...

Without an agreed upon enforcing authority there are really no laws. That is why ancap is ludicrous, protection agencies will just war to enforce the will of their masters.
 
#8,039
#8,039
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
I'll agree about laws, such as, a crime is when there is an actual victim on hand to accuse his abuser. I don't know of any ancaps that do not want laws. So there goes that...

The perceived need for government is a slave mentality. Simple as that. You own yourself, and don't need anyone to rule you.
Click to expand...

If you agree that laws need to be in place to prevent crime... Then how do you support anarchy?

I do believe our government is to big, but to say we can go without is just mind blowing to me.
 
#8,040
#8,040
TNsnyper20 said:
I didn't overlook the point of the article/paper. The populace during the wild west days was quite smaller than what it is now. Do you honestly believe that anarchy would prevail with the number of citizens in this country now.

In my opinion.... Extremely rural areas such as Wyoming, Montana, Alaska etc it MIGHT fly. But it would ultimately fail the country as a whole.
Click to expand...

I don't know if it would or not. It's never actually been tried on a mass population. No one has ever claimed ancap is a perfect, there will be problems but that's expected, it's how people work through them with voluntary association would make it a much different system than what we have now.
 
#8,047
#8,047
hog88 said:
Same as you, pretty well. We are not subjugated to a monarch or enslaved by a protection agency.
Click to expand...

How do you like having a great portion of your productivity stolen before you even cash your check?
As a business owner, how do you like all the regulations that gov has installed to regulate your activity? When most agree all the regulations really achieve is to keep the little guy from competing with the monopolies that having government allows.
How do you like the fact that you do not have the freedom of voluntary association?
Want me to go on?....
 
#8,049
#8,049
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Really? How's that working out for you?
Click to expand...

I'm breathing, own several guns, my own house, beautiful wife, two healthy boys, living in a nice subdivision next to a great school for my kids, get to hunt regularly, two cars, good career, never had any run in's with the law, never had any government assistance.. So pretty damn good to be honest.

I don't come from a privileged background either. Grew up in a trailer park in Mt Carmel tn. Single mother for the first few years of my life and a dad who was a birthday card in the mail. So don't give me that "well you just had it easy" crap.

I don't agree with the size of our government. But, to insist that life isn't good here is blasphemy. We're not ruled over... We're governed. Isn't Iceland an anarchist community? If that's what you really want them why not make the move?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#8,050
#8,050
TNsnyper20 said:
I'm breathing, own several guns, my own house, beautiful wife, two healthy boys, living in a nice subdivision next to a great school for my kids, get to hunt regularly, two cars, good career, never had any run in's with the law, never had any government assistance.. So pretty damn good to be honest.

I don't come from a privileged background either. Grew up in a trailer park in Mt Carmel tn. Single mother for the first few years of my life and a dad who was a birthday card in the mail. So don't give me that "well you just had it easy" crap.

I don't agree with the size of our government. But, to insist that life isn't good here is blasphemy. We're not ruled over... We're governed. Isn't Iceland an anarchist community? If that's what you really want them why not make the move?
Click to expand...

Blasphemy? Really? No, Iceland isn't anarchist. Please watch this, if you have the time.
http://youtu.be/_5mZ5FBHg0A


About your "why don't you move" comment, I suggest you take a look at the expatriation laws on the books. You're not exactly free to leave.
 
New posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Advertisement





Back
Top