To Protect and to Serve II

#10,701
#10,701
vol445 said:
That’s not what I asked you, how Do you think law enforcement Should handle it? Pul him over and I.d. Him Or let him go?
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I answered your question. I'm wondering where you are going with this and how it relates to the couple in Knoxville that got SWATed for having some hemp plants.
 
#10,702
#10,702
https://nypost.com/2020/07/01/nyc-ticket-blitz-will-cost-motorists-over-40m-budget-shows/

Money grab from the public.

Mayor de Blasio later defended the money grab during his daily news briefing from City Hall.

“The fact is, the reason someone gets a ticket is if they’re doing something wrong,” he said.
Hizzoner claimed that “we will do enforcement only where it’s appropriate and ensure that people understand there are consequences.”
 
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#10,703
#10,703
Rasputin_Vol said:
I answered your question. I'm wondering where you are going with this and how it relates to the couple in Knoxville that got SWATed for having some hemp plants.
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Not related. I was dealing with that situation and wondered how you would prefer that situation handled by police. Your answer didn’t
address my two questions. I’ll list it separately for ya.


Should law enforcement pull him over and I.d. Him or not?
 
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#10,705
#10,705
vol445 said:
Not related. I was dealing with that situation and wondered how you would prefer that situation handled by police. Your answer didn’t
address my two questions. I’ll list it separately for ya.


Should law enforcement pull him over and I.d. Him or not?
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If the neighbors in your example had approached him and done their due diligence, I don't see why you have to put cops and the public at risk by pulling them over. If you know the car and know the license plate, couldn't the cops (or plain clothes detective) just as easily knock on his/her front door? I say plain clothes because if uniformed cops just showed up at their front door, that would draw attention. Maybe at least with plain clothes guys you could catch them off guard.
 
#10,706
#10,706
Rasputin_Vol said:
If the neighbors in your example had approached him and done their due diligence, I don't see why you have to put cops and the public at risk by pulling them over. If you know the car and know the license plate, couldn't the cops (or plain clothes detective) just as easily knock on his/her front door? I say plain clothes because if uniformed cops just showed up at their front door, that would draw attention. Maybe at least with plain clothes guys you could catch them off guard.
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Not a bad answer but what happens if the tag isn’t on file(which happens ALOT) or is stolen? It’s one of the examples that your screwed either way and needs better defining.
If you pull him over just on that complainant alone, you violated his rights(he hasn’t committed a crime yet) however let’s say you didn’t pull him over the next day he snatches a child. Then you did nothing to protect that child.

if you pull him over and get his name and log him down he probably moves on. Just wanted to see how ya answered that one. There is no right answer to it. The only way plain clothes deal with it is if it escalates at least in our county.
 
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#10,707
#10,707
vol445 said:
Not a bad answer but what happens if the tag isn’t on file(which happens ALOT) or is stolen? It’s one of the examples that your screwed either way and needs better defining.
If you pull him over just on that complainant alone, you violated his rights(he hasn’t committed a crime yet) however let’s say you didn’t pull him over the next day he snatches a child. Then you did nothing to protect that child.

if you pull him over and get his name and log him down he probably moves on. Just wanted to see how ya answered that one. There is no right answer to it. The only way plain clothes deal with it is if it escalates at least in our county.
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Well if that is the case then you have probable cause to think it is a stolen vehicle. Then I'm sure you could get all of the legal wheels turning and get warrants or whatever needs to be done in a proper, calm manner. I'm not sure why cops love pulling people over on the streets so much, but imo, that is a far more dangerous way of doing business.
 
#10,708
#10,708
Rasputin_Vol said:
Well if that is the case then you have probable cause to think it is a stolen vehicle. Then I'm sure you could get all of the legal wheels turning and get warrants or whatever needs to be done in a proper, calm manner. I'm not sure why cops love pulling people over on the streets so much, but imo, that is a far more dangerous way of doing business.
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I hate pulling people over. I’m older and slower now. It’s never really been my thing. As a general rule I’d say your issue is more with unseasoned officers. And I can get behind that. Just because a tag is not on file tho doesn’t mean it’s stolen. And just because it is stolen doesn’t mean it will show up that way when you run the tag. Those things take time to enter the system. I hope your seeing my point.
 
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#10,709
#10,709
vol445 said:
I hate pulling people over. I’m older and slower now. It’s never really been my thing. As a general rule I’d say your issue is more with unseasoned officers. And I can get behind that. Just because a tag is not on file tho doesn’t mean it’s stolen. And just because it is stolen doesn’t mean it will show up that way when you run the tag. Those things take time to enter the system. I hope your seeing my point.
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I'm not sure what you are driving at here. This sounds to me like it is a waste of time for any officer to run anybody's license and registration after a traffic stop. From what you are saying here, it appears that it doesn't tell you much of anything anyways. So why harass normal citizens on a traffic stop and run their license and registration if it is as inconclusive as you are painting it out to be?
 
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#10,710
#10,710
Police officer filmed punching black woman at Miami International Airport

No excuse for an officer to react this way, but.........she deserved it, act tough, get in the face of another person, and be loud and run your mouth, deal with what you were seeking big gal.

Wish it were a woman cop who was trained and tough that could have put her on her arse.

No excuse for the officer, especially with she head butted me crap, but...........people like her are the problem, and then somehow, she isn't at fault for instigating, agitating, and progressing the situation. Pos trashy woman. Stupid cop.
 
#10,711
#10,711
Rasputin_Vol said:
Well if that is the case then you have probable cause to think it is a stolen vehicle. Then I'm sure you could get all of the legal wheels turning and get warrants or whatever needs to be done in a proper, calm manner. I'm not sure why cops love pulling people over on the streets so much, but imo, that is a far more dangerous way of doing business.
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This is incorrect, several vehicle tags come back not on file, and it doesn't mean they are stolen. Some also have temp tags, and even then it COULD be stolen, or it could be someone other than the owner that is driving. There is no "warrant" for community caretaking
 
#10,712
#10,712
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm not sure what you are driving at here. This sounds to me like it is a waste of time for any officer to run anybody's license and registration after a traffic stop. From what you are saying here, it appears that it doesn't tell you much of anything anyways. So why harass normal citizens on a traffic stop and run their license and registration if it is a inconclusive as you are painting it out to be?
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I thought we were finally having an honest discussion. Now your back on defensive posts. What makes a person a normal citizen? Is it their car? Is it the attire they have on while driving that car? Is it a skin color? how exactly would I know your a normal citizen since you posed that statement?
 
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#10,713
#10,713
tennvols77 said:
Police officer filmed punching black woman at Miami International Airport

No excuse for an officer to react this way, but.........she deserved it, act tough, get in the face of another person, and be loud and run your mouth, deal with what you were seeking big gal.

Wish it were a woman cop who was trained and tough that could have put her on her arse.

No excuse for the officer, especially with she head butted me crap, but...........people like her are the problem, and then somehow, she isn't at fault for instigating, agitating, and progressing the situation. Pos trashy woman. Stupid cop.
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Should have just taken her to jail for disorderly conduct, she definitely deserved the arrest, there was no reason to punch her like that by the officer.

Got caught up being hot-headed.
 
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#10,714
#10,714
vol445 said:
I thought we were finally having an honest discussion. Now your back on defensive posts. What makes a person a normal citizen? Is it their car? Is it the attire they have on while driving that car? Is it a skin color? how exactly would I know your a normal citizen since you posed that statement?
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Ras means well, he just believes the police should never be pulling people over or detaining people for traffic violations, misdemeanors, etc.
 
#10,715
#10,715
Rickyvol77 said:
Ras means well, he just believes the police should never be pulling people over or detaining people for traffic violations, misdemeanors, etc.
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I’ve always liked his post as a general rule seems to have good common sense. We just don’t agree on the topic of police work. Possibly because he’s never had to do it. And that’s not a back handed comment towards him. If he knew the feeling of missing a chance at saving someone because of a “stupid petty law” he’d understand better where I’m coming from.
 
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#10,716
#10,716
vol445 said:
I’ve always liked his post as a general rule seems to have good common sense. We just don’t agree on the topic of police work. Possibly because he’s never had to do it. And that’s not a back handed comment towards him. If he knew the feeling of missing a chance at saving someone because of a “stupid petty law” he’d understand better where I’m coming from.
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I have found there are a few types of "anti-police" posters here

Type 1 - Those with likely criminal backgrounds themselves, they make excuses for every criminal act, and bemoan why there should be people arrested for assault/vandalism/stealing etc. They want to see police not only abolished but killed off, because they like to think themselves as anarchists from behind the keyboard, but have never been in a fight in real life.

Type 2 - Those who just simply dislike authority/governance at all, either from political beliefs, or their own experiences. These are types (like a soft sovereign citizen) who have no issue with police investigating the hard crimes, but have complete issues with the community caretaking or anything else involved in police work. (i.e. drug charges, traffic violations, DUIs, etc) While some are admirable in their libertarian style thinking sometimes, they don't understand the actual reason for laws like DUI, drug use as how it affects other people directly. They want minimal police actions for anything

Type 3 - Those that want regular police intervention but call for "reform", These include posters who understand the need for policing of various kinds of issues, but have little to no understanding of actual laws/police training/police procedures. They are the "why did they have to shoot a guy just because he stole the officer's taser and shot him with it?" or "so they took a woman to jail just because she refused to sign a traffic citation", type posts.

Most of the posters here fall into the Type 2/3 and i believe the Type 1 posters are so few, they are just trolls who troll everything for attention anyway, so they are usually ignored
 
#10,717
#10,717
Rickyvol77 said:
I have found there are a few types of "anti-police" posters here

Type 1 - Those with likely criminal backgrounds themselves, they make excuses for every criminal act, and bemoan why there should be people arrested for assault/vandalism/stealing etc. They want to see police not only abolished but killed off, because they like to think themselves as anarchists from behind the keyboard, but have never been in a fight in real life.

Type 2 - Those who just simply dislike authority/governance at all, either from political beliefs, or their own experiences. These are types (like a soft sovereign citizen) who have no issue with police investigating the hard crimes, but have complete issues with the community caretaking or anything else involved in police work. (i.e. drug charges, traffic violations, DUIs, etc) While some are admirable in their libertarian style thinking sometimes, they don't understand the actual reason for laws like DUI, drug use as how it affects other people directly. They want minimal police actions for anything

Type 3 - Those that want regular police intervention but call for "reform", These include posters who understand the need for policing of various kinds of issues, but have little to no understanding of actual laws/police training/police procedures. They are the "why did they have to shoot a guy just because he stole the officer's taser and shot him with it?" or "so they took a woman to jail just because she refused to sign a traffic citation", type posts.

Most of the posters here fall into the Type 2/3 and i believe the Type 1 posters are so few, they are just trolls who troll everything for attention anyway, so they are usually ignored
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Had a sovereign citizen yesterday. Wanted a stolen report for something his brother in law borrowed and brought back. I asked him what country we were in he said what his name was. Enjoyed telling him I couldn’t write the report I wasn’t employed or allowed to perform duties in that land. He would have to do the report and see his “countries” commissioner or who ever was over their “warrants”
 
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#10,718
#10,718
vol445 said:
Had a sovereign citizen yesterday. Wanted a stolen report for something his brother in law borrowed and brought back. I asked him what country we were in he said what his name was. Enjoyed telling him I couldn’t write the report I wasn’t employed or obligated in that land. He would have to do the report and see his “countries” commissioner or who ever was over their “warrants”
Click to expand...

LOL these people are loony out of their freaking mind laughable.
 
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#10,720
#10,720
vol445 said:
I thought we were finally having an honest discussion. Now your back on defensive posts. What makes a person a normal citizen? Is it their car? Is it the attire they have on while driving that car? Is it a skin color? how exactly would I know your a normal citizen since you posed that statement?
Click to expand...
Sorry to butt in, but it really seemed like you were saying that running tags is pointless to an extent, then it seemed like Ras was asking you to clarify that interpretation. Didn't seem defensive to me, and I would also like the clarification.
 
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#10,721
#10,721
Chris4Vols22 said:
Sorry to butt in, but it really seemed like you were saying that running tags is pointless to an extent, then it seemed like Ras was asking you to clarify that interpretation. Didn't seem defensive to me, and I would also like the clarification.
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Maybe I took it wrong. That’s
Entirely possible. Someone answered it so I didn’t bother
 
#10,724
#10,724
Rickyvol77 said:
This is incorrect, several vehicle tags come back not on file, and it doesn't mean they are stolen. Some also have temp tags, and even then it COULD be stolen, or it could be someone other than the owner that is driving. There is no "warrant" for community caretaking
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I was making an attempt to open the door for other alternatives by saying...

Rasputin_Vol said:
Well if that is the case then you have probable cause to think it is a stolen vehicle. Then I'm sure you could get all of the legal wheels turning and get warrants or whatever needs to be done in a proper, calm manner. I'm not sure why cops love pulling people over on the streets so much, but imo, that is a far more dangerous way of doing business.
Click to expand...

And my "warrant" wouldn't have been for "community caretaking" (not sure where you assumed that, but whatever). My "warrant" would have been for possible stolen vehicle/property. In other words, you would have had probable cause to use whatever legal police tactics needed to get to the bottom of this hypothetical situation.

Of course, this still is a diversion from the original topic. What does this example of a suspicious car have to do with the subject we were discussing about the people in Knox County that got SWATed for growing hemp?
 
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#10,725
#10,725
Rasputin_Vol said:
Well if that is the case then you have probable cause to think it is a stolen vehicle. Then I'm sure you could get all of the legal wheels turning and get warrants or whatever needs to be done in a proper, calm manner. I'm not sure why cops love pulling people over on the streets so much, but imo, that is a far more dangerous way of doing business.
Click to expand...
I think You made the asssumption that I was saying because a tag came back not on file that meant I had probable cause Which would be false.
Tags come back not on file for several reason. they just got registered a month or so ago. they are out of date
they are out of date and someone stole the sticker off someone’s registered plate.
As for a stolen plate
Many people drive for a month or more and never knew it was gone or it gets swapped with another plate we had a guy who was going around stealing every red Nissan Altima tag he could do we didn’t know it was his car. Hope that answered your question.
as for what y’all were talking about in Knox co. Haven’t heard about it. As I said in earlier post I was sitting on a call and wondered how you would handle it. Didn’t mean to derail the topic y’all were on.
 
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