To Protect and to Serve II

#1,501
#1,501
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Again, we're at an empasse. I have no interest in continuing until you at least understand the basic concepts of which you speak against.
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Just because you have failed to identify how your "free society" would prevent a wealthy person from interfering with private property rights doesn't mean we are at an impasse. It just means you haven't identified a method.
 
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#1,502
#1,502
Grand Vol said:
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I'm into my 4th good people snake handler double ipa and this chap is wanting me to be all philosophical lol
 
#1,503
#1,503
RobsPics said:
Just because you have failed to identify how your "free society" would prevent a wealthy person from interfering with private property rights doesn't mean we are at an impasse. It just means you haven't identified a method.
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I have failed? You've lost your mind. You don't even understand the basic ****ing concepts

You're all hung up on your ultra secret millionaire police force that can whip the arse of any one else's force. It's ****ing childish
 
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#1,504
#1,504
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
I have failed? You've lost your mind. You don't even understand the basic ****ing concepts

You're all hung up on your ultra secret millionaire police force that can whip the arse of any one else's force. It's ****ing childish
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Well you haven't even suggested how your "free society" will prevent such a thing from happening.

We've already seen Donald Trump try to use the current laws to enforce eminent domain, and the court system stopped him. In your "free society", with only private police, there would be nothing to stop Trump from enforcing his will on that little old lady.
 
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#1,506
#1,506
Well given that DTH has yet to place anyone on ignore, I guess I will take it as an honor if i were to be the first.
 
#1,507
#1,507
RobsPics said:
Well you haven't even suggested how your "free society" will prevent such a thing from happening.

We've already seen Donald Trump try to use the current laws to enforce eminent domain, and the court system stopped him. In your "free society", with only private police, there would be nothing to stop Trump from enforcing his will on that little old lady.
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So, exactly where does my protection agency and arbitrators differ? It would be the same thing as we have now, only the coercion aspect would be absent. An arbitrator would make a decision that the property is the little old lady's and a protection agency would protect the little old lady.

These aren't hard concepts, it's about getting rid of the parasite otherwise known as government.
 
#1,509
#1,509
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
So, exactly where does my protection agency and arbitrators differ? It would be the same thing as we have now, only the coercion aspect would be absent. An arbitrator would make a decision that the property is the little old lady's and a protection agency would protect the little old lady.

These aren't hard concepts, it's about getting rid of the parasite otherwise known as government.
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It would be different because right now, the protective agency is not bought and sold. Police services are provided regardless of a person's wealth.

In your "free society" people must pay for protective services. If Trump's protective services could overwhelm that of the little old lady's, the arbitrator's decision is meaningless. Trump could just use his protective services to prevent any arbitrator's decision from enforcement.

Currently, if people pay the police to act in their favor, that is called corruption. But it seems like in your "free society" such actions are approved.
 
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#1,512
#1,512
DTH, in your "free society" with all private police forces, please explain how the little old lady can enforce an arbitrator's decision if Trump has a larger police force than the little old lady.
 
#1,514
#1,514
RobsPics said:
DTH, in your "free society" with an all private police forces, please explain how the little old lady can enforce an arbitrator's decision if Trump has a larger police force than the little old lady.
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Because of the law of common dealings. Contracts between people and arbitrators. As well as the fact trump would have to derive his funds from the market. Once people realize he's a vicious thug, he would be ostracized and no one would deal with him because he breaks contracts.
 
#1,516
#1,516
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Because of the law of common dealings. Contracts between people and arbitrators.
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You assume he would obey this law of common dealings. There's that faith argument again.

DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
As well as the fact trump would have to derive his funds from the market. Once people realize he's a vicious thug, he would be ostracized and no one would deal with him because he breaks contracts.
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There's your faith argument again...relying on faith that people will ostracize Trump simply because he enforced his will on the little old lady. But guess what, he already tried to enforce his will on the little old lady. And he's already broken contracts...by filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy and thus avoiding payments to creditors. Those are broken contracts. Didn't do much to ostracize him from the business community. But it's suddenly going to change in your "free society"?
 
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#1,517
#1,517
RobsPics said:
You assume he would obey this law of common dealings. There's that faith argument again.



There's your faith argument again...relying on faith that people will ostracize Trump simply because he enforced his will on the little old lady. But guess what, he already tried to enforce his will on the little old lady. And he's already broken contracts...by filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy and thus avoiding payments to creditors. Those are broken contracts. Didn't do much to ostracize him from the business community. But it's suddenly going to change in your "free society"?
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What I mean about the law of common dealing, protection agencies who would encounter each other on a regular basis would work a contract together to use a specific arbitrator they both trust. There is no faith there, it's a contract.

You're looking at trump through the lense of today's policies. Those policies wouldn't exist in a free society, if he broke contracts, he'd either pay or he'd go out of business.
 
#1,518
#1,518
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
What I mean about the law of common dealing, protection agencies who would encounter each other on a regular basis would work a contract together to use a specific arbitrator they both trust. There is no faith there, it's a contract.
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That's still assuming that Trump's private protective agency will voluntarily honor this law of common dealings. That's a faith argument.

DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
You're looking at trump through the lense of today's policies. Those policies wouldn't exist in a free society, if he broke contracts, he'd either pay or he'd go out of business.
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Of course there would be no need for Trump to utilize any bankruptcy law in your "free society". He could just develop his own private protective agency to shield him from any arbitrator's decision.

And what's this idea that he'd go out of business if he kept breaking contracts and enforcing his will on little old ladies? That's another faith argument. He has already broken contracts and tried to enforce his will on a little old lady He ain't out of business though
 
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#1,519
#1,519
RobsPics said:
That's still assuming that Trump's private protective agency will voluntarily honor this law of common dealings. That's a faith argument.



Of course there would be no need for Trump to utilize any bankruptcy law in your "free society". He could just develop his own private protective agency to shield him from any arbitrator's decision.

And what's this idea that he'd go out of business if he kept breaking contracts and enforcing his will on little old ladies? That's another faith argument. He has already broken contracts and tried to enforce his will on a little old lady He ain't out of business though
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I'll post this then I'm out. I'm lit and 3:30am comes early.

https://mises.org/library/wouldnt-warlords-take-over
 
#1,522
#1,522
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
No more than your faith in a coercive government. At least I'm willing to try alternatives.
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But we've already seen our "coercive" government work. Trump was not able to impose his will on the little old lady. That's because he couldn't pay off the cops/gubmint to enforce his will. That's not faith, that's seeing it work in action.

Where as in your "free society", the person who could pay the cops the most can freely impose his will.
 
#1,523
#1,523
It's actually funny that most dismiss the notions of free market anarchy out of hand, yet, are completely unwilling to do any research on the matter. "Wouldn't the warlords take over" or "who will build the roads"
Or even better, "if you don't like it, leave!"
Meanwhile you're completely willing to let the current coercive nature of the state rule the day.

The Market for Security | Robert P. Murphy - YouTube
 
#1,524
#1,524
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
It's actually funny that most dismiss the notions of free market anarchy out of hand, yet, are completely unwilling to do any research on the matter. "Wouldn't the warlords take over" or "who will build the roads"
Or even better, "if you don't like it, leave!"
Meanwhile you're completely willing to let the current coercive nature of the state rule the day.

The Market for Security | Robert P. Murphy - YouTube
Click to expand...

Maybe it's because the free market anarchy you propose opens the door for people like Trump to impose his own version of private property rights....where as the current government system has shutdown many of Trump's desires.
 
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