To Protect and to Serve II

#7,476
#7,476
ob79 said:
We will never agree on this, Ras. Ever.

We both feel as though our opinions are rooted in logic and a fundamental sense of decency towards the overall freedoms of citizens.

I'm just the type of person that would prefer to have this discussion in person, over a few beers, so that we could, at the very least, see that the other person is sincere, well intentioned, and simply wants the best for people...it's just that we both have differing views on how things should be.

...or maybe one or both of us are a**holes, I don't know.

I just don't have the patience to type it all out. Sorry dude.
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I agree that we are both "sincere, well intentioned, and simply wants the best for people". But we disagree on the point of "overall freedoms of citizens". Your idea is to make as many things illegal as necessary for the sake of public safety. I'm not sure where you draw the line at with regards to making things illegal, but you have to be honest and admit that your idea of public safety revolves around prohibitions of certain activities and aggressive enforcement of "pre-crime" laws. Again, all are well intentioned, sincere, and aimed at helping the people. But don't think that these ideas are not restrictive to freedoms.
 
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#7,480
#7,480
1972 Grad said:
You can't help who you love.
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Missed this comment originally but it's spot on. California elementary schools are teaching that pedophilia should be an accepted sexual orientation, why not beastiality? The dog couldn't give written consent but neither can kids, right?
 
#7,481
#7,481
Rasputin_Vol said:
I agree that we are both "sincere, well intentioned, and simply wants the best for people". But we disagree on the point of "overall freedoms of citizens". Your idea is to make as many things illegal as necessary for the sake of public safety. I'm not sure where you draw the line at with regards to making things illegal, but you have to be honest and admit that your idea of public safety revolves around prohibitions of certain activities and aggressive enforcement of "pre-crime" laws. Again, all are well intentioned, sincere, and aimed at helping the people. But don't think that these ideas are not restrictive to freedoms.
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Fair...here's where I stand then...

I believe in our system of government, flawed as it may be.

I believe in the three branches of government, though not so much in its politicians.

I believe in the law and that it is there not to infringe upon or restrict personal liberties but there as a safeguard for citizen's peace and security (yes, that's something I studied in school...I just happen to agree with it), even if it means there a consequences for certain actions some may deem legal, moral, or what have you.

I believe that police are here to protect, serve AND enforce, though the last is by far its least popular, most scrutinized and, unfortunately, too often abused aspect of policing.

I believe that police officers are comprised, perhaps mostly, of some of the finest human beings on the planet, with a smattering of some of the most insecure, overly aggressive, power hungry a**holes around, who make my job harder and harder on a daily basis.

I believe that what a man (or woman) does with power is the measure of a man (or woman) and that wielding it is intoxicating, can corrupt, and can be more addicting than any substance on Earth, and happens to be the downfall to far too many.

I also believe that the common U.S. citizen hasn't a clue as to how much power they actually have against our government or what, if properly organized, they have the power to change. And no, I'm not talking about overthrowing our government or anarchy but the power of their own vote and how much change could be implemented if even 75% of our population exercised that fundamental right...
 
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#7,483
#7,483
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
I’ll propose a scenario. Let’s say a man is drunk and drives into a private citizens fence, destroying it. To me, the issue is between the driver and the property owner. The property owner is the victim here. Why shouldn’t the two parties exchange insurance info and that be the end of it? Why does the state have to show up with their enforcers (police) and arrest the driver and extort him out of thousands of dollars the actual fence owner will never see? The most likely answer is it’s used as a deterrent. Let’s see, upwards of 35,000 people are killed on American roadways every year. Driving is by far the most dangerous thing we do on a daily basis. People drive drunk every day, it’s unenforceable. This attitude simply leads to checkpoints and other losses of liberty.

My Aunt was killed by a drunk driver back in 1990. I would never dream of advocating for more laws to make the alcohol content of someone’s blood a crime. Life is full of tragic situations and it is very fragile, but so is freedom.
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So you're ok with laws that mandate drivers carry insurance?
 
#7,484
#7,484
Huff's image communicates the very thing that frustrates me perhaps the most- the double standard regarding the police's actions versus regular citizens' actions in high stress situations. Why are they given so much more leeway than regular citizens when they have actually been trained and are paid to handle those situations professionally and not emotionally? It's ass backwards.
 
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#7,486
#7,486
MercyPercy said:
Huff's image communicates the very thing that frustrates me perhaps the most- the double standard regarding the police's actions versus regular citizens' actions in high stress situations. Why are they given so much more leeway than regular citizens when they have actually been trained and are paid to handle those situations professionally and not emotionally? It's ass backwards.
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We were discussing the idea of “stop resisting” and what it takes to cause someone to get “combative”. If you and I know each other and I suddenly grab you by the collar of your shirt or grab you under your arm your immediate reflex is to tense up. And that’s two friends who are familiar with each other and know neither means the other harm. Now imagine a stranger with a gun doing that. A situation with law enforcement is almost always stressful for one reason or another so people’s emotions are already elevated. All a cop needs to deploy force in excess of your “resistance” is you to tense up or naturally resist their action. But your resistance is a reflex. So it’s basically 100% guaranteed if a cop touches you you’re getting manhandled unless you can figure out a way to make yourself go limp or unconscious.

I’ve had a gun pointed at me one time in my life, and it was by a cop. I was less scared than I was simply mad. I can see how something like that could easily end up fatal for the untrained citizenry.
 
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#7,495
#7,495
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
I still have insurance.
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I do too. And when I was broken into and filed two claims in two years, I was cancelled. I had to raise my deductible four times and my premium trippled. You would experience the same all because of someone not being responsible for their own actions.
 
#7,496
#7,496
InVOLuntary said:
I do too. And when I was broken into and filed two claims in two years, I was cancelled. I had to raise my deductible four times and my premium trippled. You would experience the same all because of someone not being responsible for their own actions.
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It happens. Your story actually mirrors mine. I had a break in back in 2010 and they took a bunch of stuff (guns, jewelry, electronics)
Same year my lady accidentally set fire to the kitchen. State Farm made me whole and promptly canceled me. I had to pay a ridiculous premium to travelers insurance for two years until I could swap over to Allstate.
 
#7,497
#7,497
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
It happens. Your story actually mirrors mine. I had a break in back in 2010 and they took a bunch of stuff (guns, jewelry, electronics)
Same year my lady accidentally set fire to the kitchen. State Farm made me whole and promptly canceled me. I had to pay a ridiculous premium to travelers insurance for two years until I could swap over to Allstate.
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I would have been better off eating the loss. I paid for it 2X over.
 
#7,499
#7,499
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
It happens. I learned a lot from my experience. I went full tilt on security, cameras, motion sensors the whole 9.
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I'm going through it again now at my business. They're stealing scrap aluminum and other stuff from outside. We've been able to identify them with our security camera footage. Cops say that's not good enough. Need to catch them with the goods. I think we have some evidence now and the detective said he's about to issue arrest warrants. It turns out to be the same guy from last time. Spent 8 years in prison. Got out last summer.
 
#7,500
#7,500
InVOLuntary said:
I'm going through it again now at my business. They're stealing scrap aluminum and other stuff from outside. We've been able to identify them with our security camera footage. Cops say that's not good enough. Need to catch them with the goods. I think we have some evidence now and the detective said he's about to issue arrest warrants. It turns out to be the same guy from last time. Spent 8 years in prison. Got out last summer.
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I’m sorry to hear that, it’s unfortunate. Put up an electric fence. There are two types of people in this world with 0 redeeming value, liars and thieves.
 
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