Time to talk about Oversigning....

#1
buffaloblue

buffaloblue

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#1
I have seen several things on this, but I hope with some of the knowledge on this site we can try to figure out the truth.

I saw someone post that if you oversign you lose 3 signing spots in the following years class. I believe thats the NCAA rule.

Anyone know if thats the SEC rule as well?

With taking probably 18 next year. I would think we could oversign by 2 or so this year and be fine with proper attrition if this is in fact correct.

Sign 32 - Oversign by 2
Reduce 2014 number from 25 to 19. (essentially losing 4 spots cause we got 2 players for those 6 spots the previous year).

Anyone know more info on this and if oversigning is even possible under SEC rules?
 
#6
#6
Much better issue to deal with than trying to fill up a class after NSD which we've done multiple times over the last few years...
 
#7
#7
Probably_in_Class said:
Much better issue to deal with than trying to fill up a class after NSD which we've done multiple times over the last few years...
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Absolutely. I stated in another thread, points on Rivals would have had us finishing 12th last year.

So we could have a top 10 class committed before the season.

I would take that much over a class wiith a chance to be 5th or 18th going into signing day.

Also this will be the core group of Jones coaching. This is the key class and to have it almost completely signed before the first game is epic.
 
#8
#8
Huge mistake to oversign and lose future scholarships. Too much unknown, even with outstanding recruits. Injuries, family issues, attrition, grades, etc. You never know what will happen. I would be astounded if Butch purposely oversigned knowing we would lose scholarships in the future.

Here's the clarification I want: Am I correct in stating that taking commits from recruits means nothing until they sign the LOI? So, if we can take 31 recruits, we may actually get more commits right now, as long as we don't sign more than 31 in February?
 
#9
#9
vavolunteer said:
Huge mistake to oversign and lose future scholarships. Too much unknown, even with outstanding recruits. Injuries, family issues, attrition, grades, etc. You never know what will happen. I would be astounded if Butch purposely oversigned knowing we would lose scholarships in the future.

Here's the clarification I want: Am I correct in stating that taking commits from recruits means nothing until they sign the LOI? So, if we can take 31 recruits, we may actually get more commits right now, as long as we don't sign more than 31 in February?
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Absolutely you can take more.

Next year the max we can sign will probably only be 15-18 based on the 85. Its expected to be a smaller class similar to USCe this year.

From what I have heard (admittedly I dont know) is we lose the right to sign players next year. Taking max class from 25 down 3 for each oversigned. That would mean taking it from 25 to 19 means we can still sign 19 and doesnt affect the 85 overall at all.

If we oversigned by 2 this year we would only need 13-16 next year.
 
#10
#10
Does anyone know how many schools like bama, usce, uf, ga, t am can sign this year? Everyone is saying they will catch up to us in the end, but if they can't sign nearly as many as we can this year, they may not have the numbers to catch up.
 
#11
#11
vavolunteer said:
Does anyone know how many schools like bama, usce, uf, ga, t am can sign this year? Everyone is saying they will catch up to us in the end, but if they can't sign nearly as many as we can this year, they may not have the numbers to catch up.
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Rivals they will certainly catch up cause they only include top 20 commits.
 
#12
#12
vavolunteer said:
Does anyone know how many schools like bama, usce, uf, ga, t am can sign this year? Everyone is saying they will catch up to us in the end, but if they can't sign nearly as many as we can this year, they may not have the numbers to catch up.
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As far as rankings, I believe only your top 20 count, and pretty much everyone signs at least 20.
 
#14
#14
I tried asking this to the VQ guys but they never would respond...so I am still in the dark here. Sorry.
 
#15
#15
Ericvol2096 said:
I tried asking this to the VQ guys but they never would respond...so I am still in the dark here. Sorry.
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Yeah, I would imagine people always assumed no one would ever do it cause of potential penalties, but I dont put anything past Butch and company.
 
#16
#16
buffaloblue said:
I have seen several things on this, but I hope with some of the knowledge on this site we can try to figure out the truth.

I saw someone post that if you oversign you lose 3 signing spots in the following years class. I believe thats the NCAA rule.

Anyone know if thats the SEC rule as well?

With taking probably 18 next year. I would think we could oversign by 2 or so this year and be fine with proper attrition if this is in fact correct.

Sign 32 - Oversign by 2
Reduce 2014 number from 25 to 19. (essentially losing 4 spots cause we got 2 players for those 6 spots the previous year).

Anyone know more info on this and if oversigning is even possible under SEC rules?
Click to expand...

The over signing rule should be referred to as" the saban rule". :yes:
 
#17
#17
We have currently 'signed' *0* 2014 players...accepting commitments isn't 'signing'. I really wouldn't worry about 'over-signing' until we actually get to NSD. If we have have accepted 35 commitments...and still have them on signing day...then I'd start worrying. Even then I'm 99% sure that the staff has put more than a small amount of thought into this. Panicked speculation is marginally silly...
 
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#18
#18
SSVol said:
We have currently 'signed' *0* 2014 players...accepting commitments isn't 'signing'. I really wouldn't worry about 'over-signing' until we actually get to NSD. If we have have accepted 35 commitments...and still have them on signing day...then I'd start worrying. Even then I'm 99% sure that the staff has put more than a small amount of thought into this. Panicked speculation is marginally silly...
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This is in no way paniced speculation.

Its simply discussing the possible scenario
 
#20
#20
buffaloblue said:
This is in no way paniced speculation.

Its simply discussing the possible scenario
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It is a topic that has bubbled up several times lately...and that has a way of becoming panic on VN. We are still 6+ months away from NSD, and I am very sure that our staff knows exactly what they are doing. Speculating about an event 6 months out...especially speculation that could give potential recruits a reason to look elsewhere...is useless at best and destructive at worst. No offense intended...but it isn't helpful, and might even be hurtful.
 
#21
#21
SSVol said:
It is a topic that has bubbled up several times lately...and that has a way of becoming panic on VN. We are still 6+ months away from NSD, and I am very sure that our staff knows exactly what they are doing. Speculating about an event 6 months out...especially speculation that could give potential recruits a reason to look elsewhere...is useless at best and destructive at worst. No offense intended...but it isn't helpful, and might even be hurtful.
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This is in no way about recruits looking elsewhere.

This is AN INTERNET FORUM about Tennessee recruiting.

There is no harm in discussing oversigning and the possibility we could take advantage of it if the rules allow. In no way is this a thread saying so and so is going to be asked to look around, in fact its the opposite. Its a thread about, hey can we take more players.

I will let the coaches figure out how many commitments to take, but to tell people on an internet forum about recruiting not to talk about the rules of oversigning is absolutely insane.
 
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#22
#22
It's a fluid situation on Signing Day, as you are dealing with high school kids, so I don't see any sense in banking on all of our commitments to, ultimately, pan out, and I can assure you the staff understands this.
 
#23
#23
buffaloblue said:
This is in no way about recruits looking elsewhere.

This is AN INTERNET FORUM about Tennessee recruiting.

There is no harm in discussing oversigning and the possibility we could take advantage of it if the rules allow. In no way is this a thread saying so and so is going to be asked to look around, in fact its the opposite. Its a thread about, hey can we take more players.

I will let the coaches figure out how many commitments to take, but to tell people on an internet forum about recruiting not to talk about the rules of oversigning is absolutely insane.
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Do what makes you happy...but oversigning generally refers to a practice that involves kids getting screwed over medical disqualification or other trumped up ways to get the count back down to the required numbers. Considering the possibility of taking a couple extra in exchange for reduced count next year sounds pragmatic...but when you say oversigning, it evokes images of young men being tossed aside by guys like Saban.

Feel free to practice your first amendment right to talk about what ever makes you happy...but consider that words have power, and consider that you may be planting seeds in the minds of the kids we really need.
 
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#24
#24
The rule books are starting to resemble the tax code, something new every year. So it's hard for the average fan to keep up but I'm sure the coaches understand it and have a plan.

Montrell Hardy posted a few days ago, don't be surprised if Butch takes 33 or 34 as he tended to over sign at Cinci. How he makes that work, I have no idea, other than gray shirting.

As far as the 85 limit, I think its been well established in recent years that it's a relative non issue in terms of how many you sign in a given class. You'll always have a few "less team oriented" guys that can be weeded out. This is especially true after a coaching change. So I would expect next years class to be right around 25, and I doubt they would give up 3 spots for 1 more this year.

Just my take on it.
 
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#25
#25
SSVol said:
Do what makes you happy...but oversigning generally refers to a practice that involves kids getting screwed over medical disqualification or other trumped up ways to get the count back down to the required numbers. Considering the possibility of taking a couple extra in exchange for reduced count next year sounds pragmatic...but when you say oversigning, it evokes images of young men being tossed aside by guys like Saban.

Feel free to practice your second amendment to talk about what ever makes you happy...but consider that words have power, and consider that you may be planting seeds in the minds of the kids we really need.
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No, I am saying oversigning and enrolling and taking the penalty.

I am not saying taking 34 commitments and only letting 30 of them sign on signing day.

I am litterally referring to all of them signing and accepting the penalty which I saw in another thread someone say might meant we give up 3 spots next year which based on the numbers we can do.

It means if on signing day we have 30 signed and Adoree and Malone want to come on board, we dont have to play any of the stupid Saben games and instead let them sign and take the penalty if its reducing 2015 from 25 to 19 as we wont sign 19 anyways.

Thats what I am saying.
 
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