Thoughts on Butch...

[KBVol]

1995 record was 11-1 and a loss to Florida
1996 record was 10-2 and a loss to Florida
1997 record was 11-2 and yep a loss to Florida
1998 record was 13-0 and a victory over Florida
1999 record was 9-3 and a loss to Florida

I guess if you forget that Florida won 4 of the 5 games and concentrate on the wins - it was a good run. 1 national championship and 2 SEC championships, 1 outright and 1 where some other team took care of Florida for us.

54 and 8....are you really complaining about those 5 teams who were a combined 54-8 with 2 SEC titles and a National Championship?? I hate the annual losses to Florida as much as anybody....but if we could replicate those exact seasons 2016-2020???? ...... where do I sign????

 

[BigOrangeVols]

Butch couldn't beat a quality opponent to save his life. Our bowl game will show that once again likely.

 

[loggervol]

I like your post.

I have thought back to when J Majors was the coach and I remember his first years. he had a hard time competing when he first got here but it seemed as though his teams really fought hard to be in each game. and, that's what I am seeing in Butch's teams right now.

We have been to the top in the sec. and, now we have been down for so long that I think fans really don't understand what it takes to really get back to the top. I also think that fans have put unreasonable expectations on Butch. I want to win right now and we should with the talent we are getting in recruiting but I believe in what Butch said earlier. It will take 5 to 7 years to really be back where we need to be. when we have a team full of rs seniors and rs juniors leading this team. we will be where we can compete with any team.

So, if we don't win the sec next year but we win the east. I'll be happy with the year. even if we don't win the east but we make progress I'll be happy. Patience is what we need......

jmo.. GO VOLS

 

[ptcarter]

The SEC East is as big a mess as it has been in the last decade or more.

I think this is understated. SEC-E hasn't had this much turmoil ever. Longest tenured coach in SEC-E is Butch Jones (Does Stoops count.. well OK).

UGA is bound to take a recruiting hit from the Richt fire. Spurrier bailing was bad (although USCe played their last games pretty tough).

Missouri has returned to mediocrity, and that leaves Vandy, Kentucky and Flordia.

I'm still not convinced that the McElwain phenon is legit. That Florida Atlantic game was ugly and so was FSU.

That leaves Butch with a great recruiting hook now. More bricks.

We might have been able to do better this year with just a few ball bounces different, but all in all - 8-4 is where most said they would be happy.

I'd say, given all of the above - Butch should have no excuses in the upcoming seasons.

Our SEC-W opponents are Bama and TAM. Both beatable. Our OCC opponents are all beatable, and VT gives some credability to strength of schedule.

Butch, honeymoon is over! The offseason hype will be more than last year. And it will be a long offseason.

I guess a question to ask is, what, if any of our coaches will be leaving and will that affect recruiting?

Go Vols!

 

[KingtUT]

Butch couldn't beat a quality opponent to save his life. Our bowl game will show that once again likely.

Yeah cause Iowa sucks this year and we sure did struggle against them.

While I know what you mean and can completely understand some frustration with Butch, you take it a little too far IMO.

 

[kmkemp11]

I would be happy with 8 wins as a floor, while averaging 9.5 wins/year over the next 6 years or so. Then, I'll adjust my expectations upward if Butch succeeds.

 

[knox73]

I think this is understated. SEC-E hasn't had this much turmoil ever. Longest tenured coach in SEC-E is Butch Jones (Does Stoops count.. well OK).

UGA is bound to take a recruiting hit from the Richt fire. Spurrier bailing was bad (although USCe played their last games pretty tough).

Missouri has returned to mediocrity, and that leaves Vandy, Kentucky and Flordia.

I'm still not convinced that the McElwain phenon is legit. That Florida Atlantic game was ugly and so was FSU.

That leaves Butch with a great recruiting hook now. More bricks.

We might have been able to do better this year with just a few ball bounces different, but all in all - 8-4 is where most said they would be happy.

I'd say, given all of the above - Butch should have no excuses in the upcoming seasons.

Our SEC-W opponents are Bama and TAM. Both beatable. Our OCC opponents are all beatable, and VT gives some credability to strength of schedule.

Butch, honeymoon is over! The offseason hype will be more than last year. And it will be a long offseason.

I guess a question to ask is, what, if any of our coaches will be leaving and will that affect recruiting?

Go Vols!

I totally agree. Who thought the 3 veterans - spurrier, Richt and Pinkel would roll out in one year? I give Saban 2 years at most at Bama and if he wins it all this year I could see him replacing Billy Battle as AD. Vols are being rebuilt just as turmoil hits throughout the SEC. I agree on McIlwaine. He has done a nice job but loses the strength of his team on defense after this year. UF should get stomped the last 3 games of the season which will dampen their season. After Butch beats UF next year, what will the front runners latch onto next? Anyway the next 4 years should be great times for the Vols financially and success on the field.

 

[Wylo]

As long as he wins 8 games a year, I'm good with the guy. Obviously you want years here and there where you win 10-12 games, but as long as he never goes back below 8, I'm good for now.

Lol. Signing up for 8-4 every year? That's awesome. Let's lose to ALL important rivals. Way to set the bar high.

 

[southgatevol]

54 and 8....are you really complaining about those 5 teams who were a combined 54-8 with 2 SEC titles and a National Championship?? I hate the annual losses to Florida as much as anybody....but if we could replicate those exact seasons 2016-2020???? ...... where do I sign????

Man. Those were some great years. Let me sign up too.

 

[Wylo]

Yeah cause Iowa sucks this year and we sure did struggle against them.

While I know what you mean and can completely understand some frustration with Butch, you take it a little too far IMO.

Butch beat Iowa after last season. Not anything to do with this one. Keep trying on that excuse.

 

[southgatevol]

54 and 8....are you really complaining about those 5 teams who were a combined 54-8 with 2 SEC titles and a National Championship?? I hate the annual losses to Florida as much as anybody....but if we could replicate those exact seasons 2016-2020???? ...... where do I sign????

1998 sitting in the end zone watching the gator kick go wide left in OT. What a feeling!! I want the younger fans to experience moments like those years gave us older fans.

 

[a vol n tears]

Many on here talk about Tenn like they were a dynasty for decades. Complaining about 8 or 9 win seasons like anybody could win. Have they looked at UT history? Since the 50's Tenn has had 9 coaches (before Butch). Only 3 of those coaches won over 70% of their games and one of those 3 was Bill Battle. College football has changed big time and there is much, much more parity (think UCLA in basketball). Scholarship limits, more top athletes, money to spend on recruiting, etc. Every school will cycle and Alabama will again. Look at Texas, Neb, Mich. The instant gratification people. No excuses. Coaches are either good or bad, no chance to continue learning. If Majors had been in today world he would have been gone in 3 or 4 years.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

he is an average coach is a weak sec east. that equals a lifetime contract.

You are a below average poster on Volnation. So you have that going for you.

 

[livefaith]

I stopped reading after "the 90's are never coming back". It's ridiculous to think that we can't equal or go beyond what we accomplished in the 90's. JMO.

Never is a long time.

 

[LA Vol]

Some people are happy with UT winning 8 games a year?

UGA just fired a coach for only winning 9 and 10 games every year. LSU almost fired a coach for the same thing. Bama would absolutely fire a coach for that-- and quickly. UF's right there with them.

Expectations dictate results. UT fans have become willing to settle for so much less than this program is capable of achieving. Other power programs set a higher standard, and UT should, too. It is, after all, why Fulmer was fired one year after winning the SECE.

 

[ptcarter]

Some people are happy with UT winning 8 games a year?

UGA just fired a coach for only winning 9 and 10 games every year. LSU almost fired a coach for the same thing. Bama would absolutely fire a coach for that-- and quickly. UF's right there with them.

Expectations dictate results. UT fans have become willing to settle for so much less than this program is capable of achieving. Other power programs set a higher standard, and UT should, too. It is, after all, why Fulmer was fired one year after winning the SECE.

We hear ya. Can't deny this is the best season since 2007. We all want instant gratification. As long as the path is trending upwards, we are doing OK. Honeymoon over for Butch in 2016 though.

 

[tvolsfan]

We hear ya. Can't deny this is the best season since 2007. We all want instant gratification. As long as the path is trending upwards, we are doing OK. Honeymoon over for Butch in 2016 though.

If he wins eight I'm sure he'll be fine.

 

[He_Made_It]

1) The 90s are never coming back. At least not in the Vol football sense. Our historic run from 1995 thru 1999 will not be matched by anyone again. There is simply too much parity now. People will point to Saban, but he is the outlier not the norm. Short of Butch (or anyone) locking in top (#1 or #2) recruiting classes every year - without skipping a year - it just won't happen.


I don't think a five year stretch like that is out of the question.

1995 - 11-1 Citrus bowl win
1996 - 10-2 Citrus bowl win
1997 - 11-2 Crushed by Nebraska (Tom Osborne's last game)
1998 - 13-0 National Title
1999 - 9-3 Lost to Eric Crouch in Fiesta Bowl

That's 8 losses in 5 years. I get the competition is a bit tougher now, but a potential 9-4 finish with room to grow makes a run like that very possible. Especially if recruiting continues to be strong.
----------------------------------------------------
Remember in 1994 they finished 8-4. Slow start and strong finish looks eerily similar to 2015. :question:

They opened the season against #14 UCLA and lost 23-25. Lost to #1 Florida. Lost to Mississippi State 21-24. And.....lost 13-17 to #10 Bama.

 

[LA Vol]

We hear ya. Can't deny this is the best season since 2007. We all want instant gratification. As long as the path is trending upwards, we are doing OK. Honeymoon over for Butch in 2016 though.

Yep, the progress is evident, and we have a great foundation in place. Most people are content with 9-4 this year... though justifiably disappointed to give the game to UF and miss our shot at the SECE.

Expecting more in Year 4 isn't instant gratification, though. That's the money year. If we can't win the SECE with our 2016 roster, then we need to figure out what's holding us back.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

1. 8-4 is not acceptable as a standard for the Tennessee Volunteers. We're only content with it in 2015 because we're rising out of the Dark Ages. It will not remain a source of contentment.

2. 7-5 is a hard floor for the Vols -- we should not, 19 times out of 20, lose to Vandy, Kentucky, Mizzou, or USCe. That's four wins, just about every year. Add three of our four OOC games to that, and you get 7 wins; there's the floor. Among the remaining 5 games, which could all be challenging each year, we should expect to split them or better. That means 9.5 wins per year should be the centerline expectation. We should expect variance from that center line, of course. We should expect championship years, and down years. Down years should look like the 8-4 OP mentioned. Those are our down years, not our norm.

3. Parity is all well and good, but these are the realities of the Tennessee Volunteers in the SEC East in the early 21st Century. From this point on, every year is a potential championship year.

Go Vols!

 

[VinylVols]

Dang that is a low standard. My standard for satisfaction is to be at 10 wins or above every year. Until we get there, we will not be respected nationally. How can you say its OK to lose 4 games every year? That could mean never even winning the SEC east.

I think you misread. I said you want 10-12 win years within those, I'm talking about being below 8 wins in a year. It seems like we aren't going to ever see the dreaded 6-6 or 7-5 seasons anymore.

 

[KingtUT]

Butch beat Iowa after last season. Not anything to do with this one. Keep trying on that excuse.

Say what cha want but he did beat them this year. lol

 

[Hank Bukowski]

With news of a pending raise/extension mentioned in another thread, I wanted to offer a few thoughts on our current coach and his progress.

1) The 90s are never coming back. At least not in the Vol football sense. Our historic run from 1995 thru 1999 will not be matched by anyone again. There is simply too much parity now. People will point to Saban, but he is the outlier not the norm. Short of Butch (or anyone) locking in top (#1 or #2) recruiting classes every year - without skipping a year - it just won't happen.

2) I do not buy the McElwain comparison yet. Admittedly, he has had a remarkable first year, but I'm not really sure just how much better his offense is than Muschamp's. Reminds me of Muschamp's 11 win season, and we all saw how the next few years panned out. It wouldn't shock me to see similar seasons with Mac.

3) That leads me to my third thought...it is absolutely fair to criticize Butch and staff for the OU and Fla losses. I think they were caught a bit off guard by how much they dominated OU, and subsequently panicked. The Florida game (really the last 2 Fla games) was the low point of his tenure. We had no business losing either one, but especially this season. Unfortunately we have a long history of losing to Florida when we shouldn't. Just one of the universe's mysteries.

4) That said, anyone with eyeballs can see we are a much better team than the one Butch inherited. We have NFL talent at multiple positions. We are among the best special teams and least penalized teams in the country - both hallmarks of well-coached teams. Those are also signs of teams that have "bought in" to the staff's vision.

If Butch can continue his recruiting level, and get someone to help Dobbs progress as a passer, we're looking at a special 2016. Beyond that, I think expectations must be tempered to allow for the occasional 8 win slip due to parity. I think a 45-5 run like Fulmer had is a noble (but futile) aspiration, but hopefully we can include a couple of conference titles and maybe a playoff berth or two in the next 15 years.

Sensible post. Anything less than 10 wins will get the radical fringe of the nutcase-fanbase noisy...just like it did with Fulmer. But Jones will survive if we hit Atlanta every couple of years.

To his credit, I do believe he felt the blowtorch heat after the OU and FL games and made adjustments in his coaching philosophy.

Now... if he can just fix the bleeding passing game...

 

[thebjd]

This and playing in the SECCG every 2-3 years. Butch has made Tennessee football relevant again. Now it's on him to make the Vols a perennial SEC and Natty contender.

That is exactly what Fulmer did and he was terminated. He appeared in half of SECCG from 1997-2007. The coach at Tennessee has to beat our rivals. We can't lose to Alabama and Florida year in and year out. Prior to Dooley a loss to USCe would get a coach fired.

 

[thebjd]

1995 record was 11-1 and a loss to Florida
1996 record was 10-2 and a loss to Florida
1997 record was 11-2 and yep a loss to Florida
1998 record was 13-0 and a victory over Florida
1999 record was 9-3 and a loss to Florida

I guess if you forget that Florida won 4 of the 5 games and concentrate on the wins - it was a good run. 1 national championship and 2 SEC championships, 1 outright and 1 where some other team took care of Florida for us.

1995-1998 is the best four year stretch you will ever see in the SEC. 1999 was a letdown due primarily to the Arkansas loss. We were up to #2 again at that time.