Those missing Eric Gray: Jabari Small has better stats this year…

sjt18

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We "turned ourselves in" because the information was provided to the Chancellor. If she and Boyd had "sat on it" we'd be in even deeper crap.

So technically, yeah, we "self reported" but any Chancellor or University President who gets that kind of info and does nothing is setting the school up for disaster.

Someone placed the administration in a lose-lose spot and they reported it rather than take the chance the same person who gave it to them wouldn't give it to the NCAA next.

What would you have done in Plowman and Boyd's shoes?
I think UT did a good job of addressing it and maybe even went overboard with self-punishment.

If many are right (and as I personally believe) and lots of these players were cut loose because they were involved and took money then UT self imposed massive damage to its roster and gave up 15 scholarships in a single season. That goes pretty far beyond just doing what they "had to" to avoid personal trouble. It actually reeks... of *gulp* integrity in a major college program.

Heupel made it easier to stomach but we shouldn't ignore the self-imposed punishment we've already seen.
 
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I think UT did a good job of addressing it and maybe even went overboard with self-punishment.

If many are right (and as I personally believe) and lots of these players were cut loose because they were involved and took money then UT self imposed massive damage to its roster and gave up 15 scholarships in a single season. That goes pretty far beyond just doing what they "had to" to avoid personal trouble. It actually reeks... of *gulp* integrity in a major college program.

Heupel made it easier to stomach but we shouldn't ignore the self-imposed punishment we've already seen.
Agreed. Because nothing is official as far as punishment goes yet, Heupel didn't address the scholarship losses as punishment, as far as I know.

As we can't know the full extent of what was going on, it's difficult to say we "went above and beyond" but certainly we didn't spare ourselves this season.

I'd like to believe we didn't take any more damage than we absolutely felt we "had to" but that would seem to mean a lot of players were being paid.

My issue is with folks who want to diss the players only...... and not the folks who provided the money. I'm not willing to believe that the coaches were self funding all the players. The boosters are in it just as deep as the players.....if we're going to talk about dirty money.
 
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sjt18

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Agreed. Because nothing is official as far as punishment goes yet, Heupel didn't address the scholarship losses as punishment, as far as I know.

As we can't know the full extent of what was going on, it's difficult to say we "went above and beyond" but certainly we didn't spare ourselves this season.

I'd like to believe we didn't take any more damage than we absolutely felt we "had to" but that would seem to mean a lot of players were being paid.

My issue is with folks who want to diss the players only...... and not the folks who provided the money. I'm not willing to believe that the coaches were self funding all the players. The boosters are in it just as deep as the players.....if we're going to talk about dirty money.
I suspect there was outside money. Those booster should be pursued if possible. If it were ONLY money being funneled through the coaches from their own resources then Fulmer was eyeballs deep in this thing too.

I think there were quite a few players involved. I do not believe all that left were but would be absolutely shocked if Henry T, Gray, Morris, and Crouch weren't among them. Maybe Lawrence too.
 
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I suspect there was outside money. Those booster should be pursued if possible. If it were ONLY money being funneled through the coaches from their own resources then Fulmer was eyeballs deep in this thing too.

I think there were quite a few players involved. I do not believe all that left were but would be absolutely shocked if Henry T, Gray, Morris, and Crouch weren't among them. Maybe Lawrence too.
Since players have been getting booster money for decades and decades, I'm not really about exposing them. This has been The Way for a very long time.

When it goes sideways, we should man up, realize it went sideways, correct the method, and go on.... but acting like the players were dirty and abused the University is nowhere near the reality of high stakes recruiting.

I see no need to be salty toward players nor donors, really, for doing what has been going on a very long time. I blame the coaches, the mid level managers, the staff...... whomever allowed this to see daylight.
 

BoroVol93

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Gray had one of the best dead legs I’ve seen from a UT back but man he goes down as easy as I’ve ever seen by a back with his talent… he is not little either he just couldn’t run through arm tackles I think he would have been very dynamic in this offense but I love the guys we have that stayed… EG probably had to leave as others have mentioned I miss him for depth and experience though we could’ve used it for sure.
 

de1conley

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Gray had one of the best dead legs I’ve seen from a UT back but man he goes down as easy as I’ve ever seen by a back with his talent… he is not little either he just couldn’t run through arm tackles I think he would have been very dynamic in this offense but I love the guys we have that stayed… EG probably had to leave as others have mentioned I miss him for depth and experience though we could’ve used it for sure.
His body was beat to death due to our Rbs being hit behind the LOS the most in the entire country last year. When you're beaten and bruised sometimes it's hard to finish runs or get through those arm tackles
 
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So do you think the University will and should also cut ties with the donors/boosters who supplied the bad money?

That's the double standard I see on VN.

Everyone seems to love to hate on the young men who took the money and say nothing about the fat cat donors who ALSO played dirty. Everyone wants to know who TOOK money but I think it's only fair we also go after those who GAVE the money and expose them as dirty also.
It is for sure a fair question. Yes I hope we get ALL the facts too and I don’t know how source of money is not contained in report.

Do you know for a fact that any of it was outside cash from donors and not doctored books from within? That has been my ASSUMPTION to explain the number of staffers cut loose. I doubt our significant boosters would be stupid enough to risk credibility on Pruitt and his plans. Could be wrong I know.
 
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It is for sure a fair question. Yes I hope we get ALL the facts too and I don’t know how source of money is not contained in report.

Do you know for a fact that any of it was outside cash from donors and not doctored books from within? That has been my ASSUMPTION to explain the number of staffers cut loose. I doubt our significant boosters would be stupid enough to risk credibility on Pruitt and his plans. Could be wrong I know.
No one knows anything for certain or those who do won't admit it here, but money has been passing to players for a long, long time.

That Pruitt and staff seem to have been sloppy and loose with the payouts seems obvious but I'd be really surprised if significant University funds were involved because accountants would (or should) notice lots of money vanishing. Certainly Pruitt isn't bright enough to know money tricks that would fool any competent CPA. I think we can agree there.

I assume it was donor money, if not all.... mostly, slushed to the football program (hopefully the NCAA finds issues only in the football program) and the coaches decided who got what.

Again, it's not like "OMG!!!! This has never happened before!!!" It has happened, is happening, and will continue to happen (lessened, but not completely eliminated, by NIL deals) if we're going to recruit elite players in all sports.

That's my issue with folks acting like the players that took money are any different than lots of VFLs. It's part of the game and Pruitt sucked at LOTS of parts of the game, but it's not the player's fault for doing what players have been doing for decades.
 

Sarms58

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Only problem there is that Morris is now a back up RIGHT TACKLE for OU. To me... that kind of screams that he was getting paid and could not be moved from LT or benched. The guy has never played like a 5*.

Who is the other OL loss to the portal that mattered?
Johnson and Johnson - one starts at TAMU and one starts at GT. My point was about losing depth…neither was a consistent starter here and as you noted, Morris consistently underperformed but those three could have provided good backups when our starters were out with injuries. Johnson (TAMU) may have transferred because he felt he was better than Morris but wasn’t getting a fair deal. Of course we had Will Friend and he was horrible at developing players so I wouldn’t doubt his evaluation skills sucked as well.

Losing Trey to the NFL plus Kennedy and the three transfers out hurt our OL depth and we’ll need to add more OL to this class as well as grabbing some talent via the portal IMO.
 

sjt18

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Johnson and Johnson - one starts at TAMU and one starts at GT. My point was about losing depth…neither was a consistent starter here and as you noted, Morris consistently underperformed but those three could have provided good backups when our starters were out with injuries. Johnson (TAMU) may have transferred because he felt he was better than Morris but wasn’t getting a fair deal. Of course we had Will Friend and he was horrible at developing players so I wouldn’t doubt his evaluation skills sucked as well.

Losing Trey to the NFL plus Kennedy and the three transfers out hurt our OL depth and we’ll need to add more OL to this class as well as grabbing some talent via the portal IMO.
Not as sure about Ryan J but I really believe Jahmir would have made a difference.
 
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No one knows anything for certain or those who do won't admit it here, but money has been passing to players for a long, long time.

That Pruitt and staff seem to have been sloppy and loose with the payouts seems obvious but I'd be really surprised if significant University funds were involved because accountants would (or should) notice lots of money vanishing. Certainly Pruitt isn't bright enough to know money tricks that would fool any competent CPA. I think we can agree there.

I assume it was donor money, if not all.... mostly, slushed to the football program (hopefully the NCAA finds issues only in the football program) and the coaches decided who got what.

Again, it's not like "OMG!!!! This has never happened before!!!" It has happened, is happening, and will continue to happen (lessened, but not completely eliminated, by NIL deals) if we're going to recruit elite players in all sports.

That's my issue with folks acting like the players that took money are any different than lots of VFLs. It's part of the game and Pruitt sucked at LOTS of parts of the game, lbut it's not the player's fault for doing what players have been doing for decades.
It is entirely possible that ANY forced transfer would have been because these were not run of the mill, turn a blind eye, small change handshakes. Our legal team took a long time and would not risk wrongful termination litigation for cause for 10 people without some different level activity.

Their willingness to include NCAA so early indicates to ME it was real, path of money clearly identified and was tricky enough to draw lines clearing all but those ejected, staff and players.

Next level up was CPF and they wouldn’t give him that send off at the presser if he did or reasonably should have known what was characterized as SHOCKING circumstances uncovered during the investigation.

Not buckling to recent threats by Pruitt seems to indicate NCAA efforts to date seem to validate those positions enough to not take the settlement to make it go away alternative that would cloud the situation. So far we are not blinking and sticking to the line in the sand.

Any logic flaws in this? I have them from time to time.
 

Sarms58

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Not as sure about Ryan J but I really believe Jahmir would have made a difference.
I hope Mays returns next year and. Calbert as well…

PS: But....this staff has created some excitement and they will attract good players...it usually takes a couple of years in recruiting because you have to start building relationships with the players during their freshmen and sophomore years but they should be able to grab some JUCO and transfer portal guys this year...
 
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It is entirely possible that ANY forced transfer would have been because these were not run of the mill, turn a blind eye, small change handshakes. Our legal team took a long time and would not risk wrongful termination litigation for cause for 10 people without some different level activity.

Their willingness to include NCAA so early indicates to ME it was real, path of money clearly identified and was tricky enough to draw lines clearing all but those ejected, staff and players.

Next level up was CPF and they wouldn’t give him that send off at the presser if he did or reasonably should have known what was characterized as SHOCKING circumstances uncovered during the investigation.

Not buckling to recent threats by Pruitt seems to indicate NCAA efforts to date seem to validate those positions enough to not take the settlement to make it go away alternative that would cloud the situation. So far we are not blinking and sticking to the line in the sand.

Any logic flaws in this? I have them from time to time.
I'm nowhere NEAR naive enough to believe Fulmer saying he had "no idea" Foster, Bray, etc were being paid when he was coach. They were and he knew who, how much, etc. Again, this isn't something that "just happened" with Pruitt. This is how high level programs have survived in the recruiting wars for decades.

As AD, Fulmer MIGHT not have had direct knowledge of who, how much, etc during Pruitt's tenure as head coach but he 100% knew it was happening.

This is "standard operating procedure" for any program that wants to recruit a top 15 class of football recruits.

Fulmer got paid to leave because he REALLY knows where ALL the skeletons are buried at UT. He could bring down Summitt's legacy, women's and men's basketball and football and God knows whatever else if the University tossed him under the bus.

Would he? I don't know. Watch the Pruitt legal saga...... Pruitt will get paid because of what he knows. Phil Fulmer knows a lot more than Pruitt about the dirty side of Tennessee athletics.
 
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I'm nowhere NEAR naive enough to believe Fulmer saying he had "no idea" Foster, Bray, etc were being paid when he was coach. They were and he knew who, how much, etc. Again, this isn't something that "just happened" with Pruitt. This is how high level programs have survived in the recruiting wars for decades.

As AD, Fulmer MIGHT not have had direct knowledge of who, how much, etc during Pruitt's tenure as head coach but he 100% knew it was happening.

This is "standard operating procedure" for any program that wants to recruit a top 15 class of football recruits.

Fulmer got paid to leave because he REALLY knows where ALL the skeletons are buried at UT. He could bring down Summitt's legacy, women's and men's basketball and football and God knows whatever else if the University tossed him under the bus.

Would he? I don't know. Watch the Pruitt legal saga...... Pruitt will get paid because of what he knows. Phil Fulmer knows a lot more than Pruitt about the dirty side of Tennessee athletics.
If CPF or immediate subordinates were involved in the level of infractions involved, the NCAA will find it as deep as they are digging. Electronic surveillance is at an all time high.

What revelations have been out there on Bray? Did he get some tacos too or what? I am uninformed. What reports are you referencing? You think they would give him the golden parachute if he was dirty and risk ownership of their own coverup at their level instead of throwing him under the bus? Going to have to see some evidence to buy that? He had to pay the price of losing his job for not knowing under his watch by a guy he hired. He knew that too. A legacy of gullibility is not what he wanted to leave. He bought what Pruitt was selling. His only way to leave a winner was to hire a winner. He knew that too. He did try to give Pruitt more time to pull it off with the extension so more quality Jimmys and joes Would join, but tying him to THE bad acts by those fired needs to be proven. If he was they would have leveraged that and that has not happened to date. Papers would be full of CPF or his directs told us to defenses and not a whiff of that either.

Will accept the facts if they come out, but not guilty by some he had to know logic.
 
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If CPF or immediate subordinates were involved in the level of infractions involved, the NCAA will find it as deep as they are digging. Electronic surveillance is at an all time high.

What revelations have been out there on Bray? Did he get some tacos too or what? I am uninformed. What reports are you referencing? You think they would give him the golden parachute if he was dirty and risk ownership of their own coverup at their level instead of throwing him under the bus? Going to have to see some evidence to buy that? He had to pay the price of losing his job for not knowing under his watch by a guy he hired. He knew that too. A legacy of gullibility is not what he wanted to leave. He bought what Pruitt was selling. His only way to leave a winner was to hire a winner. He knew that too. He did try to give Pruitt more time to pull it off with the extension so more quality Jimmys and joes Would join, but tying him to THE bad acts by those fired needs to be proven. If he was they would have leveraged that and that has not happened to date. Papers would be full of CPF or his directs told us to defenses and not a whiff of that either.

Will accept the facts if they come out, but not guilty by some he had to know logic.
Bray has talked about it for years, I think. I believe he has said compliance contacted him at some point and he just laughed at them.

I knew people who got money in the 70s at UT. This isn't something new in the SEC, at least. I knew a kid, older than me, who got what I thought was decent money when I was in my teens to play for Bear. This was and is normal for elite athletes. What Pruitt did wasn't an anamoly. Having it uncovered was the problem.

I'd prefer not to think someone wanted Pruitt gone so much they tossed this stuff on the admins and forced their hands but that's how it looks. I'm not pissed at Pruitt, Fulmer, Nieds, or players...... I'm only pissed at whomever made admins HAVE to call the NCAA about it.

That's the problem. The money changing hands is just normal for elite athletes and will continue in some form. Somebody set UT up...... and I'd like to know who and why.
 

perico

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If CPF or immediate subordinates were involved in the level of infractions involved, the NCAA will find it as deep as they are digging. Electronic surveillance is at an all time high.

What revelations have been out there on Bray? Did he get some tacos too or what? I am uninformed. What reports are you referencing? You think they would give him the golden parachute if he was dirty and risk ownership of their own coverup at their level instead of throwing him under the bus? Going to have to see some evidence to buy that? He had to pay the price of losing his job for not knowing under his watch by a guy he hired. He knew that too. A legacy of gullibility is not what he wanted to leave. He bought what Pruitt was selling. His only way to leave a winner was to hire a winner. He knew that too. He did try to give Pruitt more time to pull it off with the extension so more quality Jimmys and joes Would join, but tying him to THE bad acts by those fired needs to be proven. If he was they would have leveraged that and that has not happened to date. Papers would be full of CPF or his directs told us to defenses and not a whiff of that either.

Will accept the facts if they come out, but not guilty by some he had to know logic.
Bray admitted to taking money from boosters. That’s on record.

Tyler Bray, Mo Couch allegedly paid by agent liaison; UT says it's 'examining facts'
 
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