this team has regressed

#1
D

Darth_Vol

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#1
And it isn't just based on tonight. Compare the conference games Tennessee played earlier in the season to the rematches in the last couple of weeks and you can only reach one of two conclusions: 1)Other teams have improved significantly more than Tennessee or 2)Tennessee has become significantly worse.

Either way, it's very discouraging and not a good look for Kellie...
 
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#2
#2
Darth_Vol said:
And it isn't just based on tonight. Compare the conference games Tennessee played earlier in the season to the rematches in the last couple of weeks and you can only reach one of two conclusions: 1)Other teams have improved significantly more than Tennessee or 2)Tennessee has become significantly worse.

Either way, it's very discouraging and not a good look for Kellie...
Click to expand...
Poor Kellie. She has entered the land of little chance to win. She can never be Pat Summit. Pat Summit couldn't be herself in today's environment. Things change. UT won't field a natty team based solely on their reputation going forward. This is her first year. Brave new world.
 
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#3
#3
What I see missing is for a program with as much history and pride as the LV program...there is absolutely ZERO swag. They looked like the Austin Peay men playing Kansas or something...like WE were the perennial losing program...not them. I think attitude is a HUGE part of coaching. Instilling an attitude of "we are the Vols dammit". I did NOT see that tonight. They looked scared and timid. They KNEW they were gonna lose before this even started.
 
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#4
#4
DonDiego said:
Poor Kellie. She has entered the land of little chance to win. She can never be Pat Summit. Pat Summit couldn't be herself in today's environment. Things change. UT won't field a natty team based solely on their reputation going forward. This is her first year. Brave new world.
Click to expand...
I agree that the landscape has changed so much that even Pat would not dominate..Geno and UCONN are not doing it anymore. The biggest stumbling block for Kellie is going to be overcoming the way that the athletic department allowed Holly to take this program down. There were red flags everywhere throughout. The great classes followed by the transfers that took place, and the inability to develop many of the players or develop a team first atmosphere. The blind eye (from the AD) is going to be problematic moving forward. It gives the look of "so what, it's just WBB". That is not the face you want if you want high end recruits.
 
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#5
#5
superfly said:
I agree that the landscape has changed so much that even Pat would not dominate..Geno and UCONN are not doing it anymore. The biggest stumbling block for Kellie is going to be overcoming the way that the athletic department allowed Holly to take this program down. There were red flags everywhere throughout. The great classes followed by the transfers that took place, and the inability to develop many of the players or develop a team first atmosphere. The blind eye (from the AD) is going to be problematic moving forward. It gives the look of "so what, it's just WBB". That is not the face you want if you want high end recruits.
Click to expand...
LOTS of UN-doing to accomplish with this LV basketball team. Takes a while to build a great program yet only a short while to demolish it. Holly coached for six years. Giving KJH a pass until the culture can change.
 
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#6
#6
Darth_Vol said:
And it isn't just based on tonight. Compare the conference games Tennessee played earlier in the season to the rematches in the last couple of weeks and you can only reach one of two conclusions: 1)Other teams have improved significantly more than Tennessee or 2)Tennessee has become significantly worse.

Either way, it's very discouraging and not a good look for Kellie...
Click to expand...
It must be so satisfying for you to make posts like this.
 
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#7
#7
djohnnyg said:
What I see missing is for a program with as much history and pride as the LV program...there is absolutely ZERO swag. They looked like the Austin Peay men playing Kansas or something...like WE were the perennial losing program...not them. I think attitude is a HUGE part of coaching. Instilling an attitude of "we are the Vols dammit". I did NOT see that tonight. They looked scared and timid. They KNEW they were gonna lose before this even started.
Click to expand...
What a difference a day makes. We had tons of swag in the 2nd half against Mizzou.
 
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#9
#9
I'm ambivalent regarding regressing.
While we haven't played well the last four games (3 of which were uninspiring wins against the worst SEC teams), I think that's a function of being so dependent on freshmen.
Yes, South Carolina starts 3 freshmen. But, they also have high quality upperclassmen to depend on, in case the freshmen falter (As happened in yesterday's game with Cooke).
Overall, the team's record was about as well as could be expected, under the circumstances (High level players transferring, injuries, new coaching staff). It's the way that record was accomplished that is concerning.
1) As a team, we played at a lower level, at the end of the season, then we did early in the year (Again, that could be relying on freshmen who may have hit the wall).
2) We never even remotely solved the turnover problem. (This could be inherent in the players that we have and might require different personnel).
3) Our offensive system. Certainly, against better teams, our offense seems ineffective and disorganized. We too often resort to one-on-one forced shots (Plenty of those in yesterday's game).
Bottom line is...
It's way to early to draw conclusions about KJH as coach.
She needs more time, and probably her own players, to make a fair judgement about her coaching abilities. And regardless of how good a coach she'll be, it will be how well she can recruit that will determine how far the LV's basketball program will go.
 
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#10
#10
I think KJH's recruiting strategy (maybe by intent, maybe by default) was to recruit physical ability and team-oriented personalities, then put it on herself and her staff to develop their basketball IQs.

To me, that's the most logical explanation for what we've observed this season.

It'll take a couple more years to know how well that strategy succeeds. Until then, when we're in the stands passing around bottles of omeprazole... don't forget to offer some to the coaches.
 
#11
#11
Hard to blame Kellie too much for this. The group she has inherited does not have a high basketball IQ. The guards seem to have no idea when and where to make a pass. Really, this team has 2 girls that are good ball players IMO. If we are still getting near double digit TOs early in the second quarter in her 3rd year then we can blame some of this on her. We also have to start getting the local stars to come play for the Lady Vols again. Cleveland and Chattanooga alone are putting out top players and none are coming to Knoxville.
 
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#12
#12
Somebody remind me of what happened with the Rhyne Howard recruitment. Or was there a recruitment?
 
#13
#13
feathersax said:
LOTS of UN-doing to accomplish with this LV basketball team. Takes a while to build a great program yet only a short while to demolish it. Holly coached for six years. Giving KJH a pass until the culture can change.
Click to expand...

Holly coached 8 or 9 years and each year was an underachievement and each year the program got worse. I think she had a bad locker room, bad on court body language and allowed jealously to seep into the program those early years we had never seen before. I remember the way Stricklen used to show frustration toward Speedy and then way Holly used to pull her. We should've gotten to st least one Final 4. Not with Holly. Most of those players during the Holly era never return and the lack of development started to show in years 3 and beyond when the program barely sent players to the WNBA or they couldn't stick.

I think Coach Harper will start to reverse this trend. It will take a little more patience. I guess I'm more frustrated about the past 8 or 9 years than I am about this year.
 
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#14
#14
BruisedOrange said:
I think KJH's recruiting strategy (maybe by intent, maybe by default) was to recruit physical ability and team-oriented personalities, then put it on herself and her staff to develop their basketball IQs.

To me, that's the most logical explanation for what we've observed this season.

It'll take a couple more years to know how well that strategy succeeds. Until then, when we're in the stands passing around bottles of omeprazole... don't forget to offer some to the coaches.
Click to expand...

How many times do we have to say Harper didn't recruit the current roster? Maybe one player - clearly should be redshirting.
 
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#15
#15
djohnnyg said:
What I see missing is for a program with as much history and pride as the LV program...there is absolutely ZERO swag. They looked like the Austin Peay men playing Kansas or something...like WE were the perennial losing program...not them. I think attitude is a HUGE part of coaching. Instilling an attitude of "we are the Vols dammit". I did NOT see that tonight. They looked scared and timid. They KNEW they were gonna lose before this even started.
Click to expand...

This is not yet a team. Just a collection of players.
These girls as a whole look/are slow. It may be strength has not yet caught up to body size.
This squad has got to have someone "take over" become the leader. (as every really good team has)
This squad need a mind set change. Too passive. Too much project of "o well' when something goes against them. (no Damnit, **** or any less show of emotion)
Post play has shown improvement, but from where it started it had to.
Kellie: Well seems to be just a little shy to me. Gonna have to get fired up and fire up these girls. Even if she looses some of them. This off season gonna need to 'hammer' on her point guards and have staff do the same on everyone else. Make this squad watch every poor performance over and over til they get sick of watching themselves all off season long. If it doesn't have the right effect, well suggest to the girl she might need to look for another school. In other words "Kellie is going to have to come down hard on this bunch or she is wasting her time.
 
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#16
#16
StrangeVol said:
Somebody remind me of what happened with the Rhyne Howard recruitment. Or was there a recruitment?
Click to expand...

It's been said by a few people who would know that Rhyne Howard was very clear about Tennessee never being an option, though they didn't really say why. And I would add it probably doesn't matter why at this point.
 
#17
#17
savannahfan said:
This is not yet a team. Just a collection of players.
These girls as a whole look/are slow. It may be strength has not yet caught up to body size.
This squad has got to have someone "take over" become the leader. (as every really good team has)
This squad need a mind set change. Too passive. Too much project of "o well' when something goes against them. (no Damnit, **** or any less show of emotion)
Post play has shown improvement, but from where it started it had to.
Kellie: Well seems to be just a little shy to me. Gonna have to get fired up and fire up these girls. Even if she looses some of them. This off season gonna need to 'hammer' on her point guards and have staff do the same on everyone else. Make this squad watch every poor performance over and over til they get sick of watching themselves all off season long. If it doesn't have the right effect, well suggest to the girl she might need to look for another school. In other words "Kellie is going to have to come down hard on this bunch or she is wasting her time.
Click to expand...

We need to start by cutting the European tour budget. Has been a big waste of time and "money" for years! They look no better than before they go. It's just a school paid vacation.
 
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#18
#18
volnationnj said:
I'm ambivalent regarding regressing.
While we haven't played well the last four games (3 of which were uninspiring wins against the worst SEC teams), I think that's a function of being so dependent on freshmen.
Yes, South Carolina starts 3 freshmen. But, they also have high quality upperclassmen to depend on, in case the freshmen falter (As happened in yesterday's game with Cooke).
Overall, the team's record was about as well as could be expected, under the circumstances (High level players transferring, injuries, new coaching staff). It's the way that record was accomplished that is concerning.
1) As a team, we played at a lower level, at the end of the season, then we did early in the year (Again, that could be relying on freshmen who may have hit the wall).
2) We never even remotely solved the turnover problem. (This could be inherent in the players that we have and might require different personnel).
3) Our offensive system. Certainly, against better teams, our offense seems ineffective and disorganized. We too often resort to one-on-one forced shots (Plenty of those in yesterday's game).
Bottom line is...
It's way to early to draw conclusions about KJH as coach.
She needs more time, and probably her own players, to make a fair judgement about her coaching abilities. And regardless of how good a coach she'll be, it will be how well she can recruit that will determine how far the LV's basketball program will go.
Click to expand...

Best post on this squad and staff I have read this late season. (I refuse to all them a team yet)
 
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#19
#19
BreatheUT said:
We need to start by cutting the European tour budget. Has been a big waste of time and "money" for years! They look no better than before they go. It's just a school paid vacation.
Click to expand...

I wonder what effect,if any these trips have on recruiting..
 
#22
#22
superfly said:
I agree that the landscape has changed so much that even Pat would not dominate..Geno and UCONN are not doing it anymore. The biggest stumbling block for Kellie is going to be overcoming the way that the athletic department allowed Holly to take this program down. There were red flags everywhere throughout. The great classes followed by the transfers that took place, and the inability to develop many of the players or develop a team first atmosphere. The blind eye (from the AD) is going to be problematic moving forward. It gives the look of "so what, it's just WBB". That is not the face you want if you want high end recruits.
Click to expand...
Right on target. It's just WBB-that's the number one problem (the AD) in a nutshell
 
#23
#23
Darth_Vol said:
And it isn't just based on tonight. Compare the conference games Tennessee played earlier in the season to the rematches in the last couple of weeks and you can only reach one of two conclusions: 1)Other teams have improved significantly more than Tennessee or 2)Tennessee has become significantly worse.

Either way, it's very discouraging and not a good look for Kellie...
Click to expand...

Is this serious? LOL!
 
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#24
#24
BreatheUT said:
How many times do we have to say Harper didn't recruit the current roster? Maybe one player - clearly should be redshirting.
Click to expand...

Well obviously, because this roster actually has HS All-Americans and players that were highly sought after. But I guess the three or four stars she used win in MVC could work too...
 
#25
#25
Is it lack of player talent or lack of player development? I don't think the team is a overall as talented as some on here think but lack of development seems to be the bigger issue. I don't think Coach Fulmer or Kelly realized what bad shape this team was really in when she was hired. And I mean from bad culture, no player development, no chemistry, etc. Just going to take time to change it. Good news is a BB team can be rebuilt much quicker than some other teams.
 
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