This is the best I’ve felt about the program forever it seems. Agree?

#51

Iam4utalways

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#51
So what exactly are you disagreeing with? The fact that a select handful of players “developed” under precious staffs vs the significant broad development we’re seeing today across the board is about as different as night vs day.

The former is a shell game. The latter is a CULTURE.
I disagree that player development is the big difference from current coaching staff and previous.

I think the big difference is having a creative coach. Players that want to develop will.
 
#52

OrangeTsar

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#52
I mean honestly with Butch at one point beating Florida, recruiting well, etc. Then the wheels fell off.
But even in Butch’s best days, I never really had the sense that the team was executing consistently near their potential. They would play well for stretches only to lose comfortable margins for late losses. I never felt a Butch Jones team played a complete 60 minutes. But under Heupel,even during cold spells in games, you can see the effort staying high and see that they are just barely missing plays that you know they will make as they develop
 
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#53

VFL-82-JP

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#53
But even in Butch’s best days, I never really had the sense that the team was executing consistently near their potential. They would play well for stretches only to lose comfortable margins for late losses. I never felt a Butch Jones team played a complete 60 minutes. But under Heupel,even during cold spells in games, you can see the effort staying high and see that they are just barely missing plays that you know they will make as they develop
Butch's teams were close to that, with one glaring exception: the offensive line never was solid in those five seasons.

Dobbs, Hurd, Kamara, the receivers, and all of the defense (Barnett, Madgitt, Reeves-Maybin, Sutton, and so on) had it going on. We were so close everywhere, except our OLine was a revolving door most games.

I agree with you that under Heup so far, everyone seems to be raising their game together. The defense is behind the offense, but high hopes that they catch fire this year, too.

Go Vols!
 
#54

DaddyChad

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#54
But even in Butch’s best days, I never really had the sense that the team was executing consistently near their potential. They would play well for stretches only to lose comfortable margins for late losses. I never felt a Butch Jones team played a complete 60 minutes. But under Heupel,even during cold spells in games, you can see the effort staying high and see that they are just barely missing plays that you know they will make as they develop
We were very good when Debord was there as OC. Debord was able to kind of minimize the micromanaging as much as anyone could with Butch and really was able to get the most out of Dobbs and put him in position to be successful.
 
#55

SonOfGodVolforlife

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#55
Go big orange, just wanted to say thanks coach thanks to the admin for finally getting it right, for righting the wrong. Too much history with this program to ever allow it to go backwards again.
Greaaaat you just jinxed us man. Always these threads before our head coach has a horrible year and gets fired lol
 
#56

DC_Vol

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#56
I couldn’t disagree more. There were select players that developed under all the other guys.

The biggest difference is we now have a HC that’s creative between the lines that can relay his vision for the team. I expect current players are more confident in their coach vs the recent past.

Jones showed flashes of creativity when he wasn’t too busy being ultra conservative or just being a clown.

JP had us dialed in against Auburn other than that he was a complete wreck. We were in a bind to hire a HC and ended up with him.

Dooley was hired because of his name and we were in a bind due to Kiffen.
Here’s why I disagree.

Plot of draft picks by year from 2004 to 2022. The orange line is the trailing 3 year average to smooth out the ups and downs.

It clearly shows a lack of development from the end of the Fulmer era until today.

It only started turning up with last years data point, which i would directly attribute to JH.

1659730782396.png
 
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#57

PlanetVolunteer

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#57
Feels much different than Butch and Pruitt.

Year one under Heupel was worlds better than both.

We already got a 5 star QB on the way and seriously mingling with a top 10 class in year two after an NCAA investigation.

The gameplans were better. Execution way better. Coaching decisions way better.

This is different. Last year's offense was better than anything Butch did with half the talent.

We are going to be fine. At worst 7-5 ever under Heupel.
 
#58

Vol423

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#58
Go big orange, just wanted to say thanks coach thanks to the admin for finally getting it right, for righting the wrong. Too much history with this program to ever allow it to go backwards again.
For the most part, I feel good about what is happening on the field. We need to see significant improvement on the defensive side of the ball this year. Also, while this year's recruiting class is still a work in progress, but we need to land several more guys in the trenches on both sides of the ball (but particularly the offensive line), or we're going to have some issues in the next few years.
 
#59

BogeyVol

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#59
Butch's teams were close to that, with one glaring exception: the offensive line never was solid in those five seasons.

Dobbs, Hurd, Kamara, the receivers, and all of the defense (Barnett, Madgitt, Reeves-Maybin, Sutton, and so on) had it going on. We were so close everywhere, except our OLine was a revolving door most games.

I agree with you that under Heup so far, everyone seems to be raising their game together. The defense is behind the offense, but high hopes that they catch fire this year, too.

Go Vols!
Not even sure the defense needs to "catch fire" to help immediately. If they can get 4 or 5 more 3rd down stops for us, that's 4 or 5 more touches for the offense, and as long as it doesn't regress, I like the increased opportunities to score for us and fewer for the other guys.
 
#60

DC_Vol

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#60
Not even sure the defense needs to "catch fire" to help immediately. If they can get 4 or 5 more 3rd down stops for us, that's 4 or 5 more touches for the offense, and as long as it doesn't regress, I like the increased opportunities to score for us and fewer for the other guys.
3rd and 4th downs last year were abysmal. It was maddening.
 
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#61

Vol423

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#61
Here’s why I disagree.

Plot of draft picks by year from 2004 to 2022. The orange line is the trailing 3 year average to smooth out the ups and downs.

It clearly shows a lack of development from the end of the Fulmer era until today.

It only started turning up with last years data point, which i would directly attribute to JH.

View attachment 477983
The fact that Heupel and his coaching staff had 5 players drafted off last year's roster is nothing short of amazing.
 
#62

Vol423

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#62
3rd and 4th downs last year were abysmal. It was maddening.
Honestly, the 3rd down stats for last year's defense is the primary reason that I have hope that this year's defense could see a dramatic improvement. Last year's defense was amongst the worst teams that I've ever seen in giving up 3rd down conversions, even on 3rd down and extremely long.
 
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#63

DC_Vol

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#63
Honestly, the 3rd down stats for last year's defense is the primary reason that I have hope that this year's defense could see a dramatic improvement. Last year's defense was amongst the worst teams that I've ever seen in giving up 3rd down conversions, even on 3rd down and extremely long.
You kinda knew the opponent was likely to convert, even in third and long situations.
 
#64

72 KPT VOL

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#64
Is this 1965 again? My 1st game in Neyland was opening game 1965.

a 2nd year young coach (D Dickey) that was a qb in college installs new exciting offense and shows only marginal improvement in wins in year one but excels beyond expectations in year 2 (1965) ending #7 in final poll with only one loss, a 14-13 barnburner at home against Ole Miss. unranked at beginning of season.

Had two ties against two top teams in SEC, Auburn and Bama, that was crowned as National Champion at year end. Beat everyone else including highly ranked UCLA in Memphis in last regular season game and won bowl game convincingly. Ended 8-1-2.

And the strength of team was the defense! Dewey Warren took over as starting qb at mid season due to injury and set single season passing records at that time in only half season.

From 65 thru 70 had best winning percentage in country and were exactly tied w Bama in overall winning % by 1970.

GBO!
 
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#66

LittleVol

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#66
Yep!

Last time I was this optimistic was probably 2015. Last time before that was probably 2007.

It really feels like we're climbing out of the Dark Ages, finally. Thought were were in Butch's middle years, but turned out that was a mirage.

Go Vols!
We have one of the top returning QBs in the conference and some much depth on defense.

We'll be in EVERY game this year. No blowouts against us.
 
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#68

Iam4utalways

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#68
Here’s why I disagree.

Plot of draft picks by year from 2004 to 2022. The orange line is the trailing 3 year average to smooth out the ups and downs.

It clearly shows a lack of development from the end of the Fulmer era until today.

It only started turning up with last years data point, which i would directly attribute to JH.

View attachment 477983
My point exactly. Throughout the years 1st year HCs have created a bump in Vols drafted….. no big difference.


Having a HC that is creative vs the previous HCs is a big difference.

I don’t consider JP creative, except how he involved his wife as the bad lady. From the sound of it, that’s outside the box. What a clown.

Jones could have been, if he wasn’t so conservative costing games with his play calls and the fact that he was a clown too.

Dooley was hired for his name. Had he stuck with a traditional 4-3 and only changed his DC his last year, there’s no telling what would have happened next, except that clown wasn’t recruiting OL.
 
#69

Devo182

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#69
Last time was probably 2016. And that was Butch Y4. So this is pretty incredible progress.

But I'm not sure the record will reflect it because now UGA is on Bama's level, so that's basically 2 surefire losses vs 1 back in 2016. Lots of ~tossup games too - LSU, UF, Pitt, UK. Tough schedule as usual. Imo we could end up a top 20 team, but also 8-4.

I'm waiting until we can bring in some real stud defensive classes before I get into annual Atlanta hopes.
 
#70

nomads-11

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#70
Optimistically, yes. I like what I've seen from Danny White - so there's, so far, good leadership at the top for a change. CJH, in one year+ has shown a lot - his offense can legitimately score, players have shown improvement/development and actually seem to enjoy themselves, and recruiting is solid.

It doesn't look/feel like a gimmick on or off the field. Across the board.
 
#73

hardyemt_p

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#73
Go big orange, just wanted to say thanks coach thanks to the admin for finally getting it right, for righting the wrong. Too much history with this program to ever allow it to go backwards again.
Nah, had it when Butch took over. Then again with Beldar. Just give me some W's and a positive tragectory.
 

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