The ways I sees it...

#77
#77
PagingDrVol said:
Then it's not CCM that seems to be the problem. It's the (your) expectations that are the problem.

Year 1: overachieved national expectations and VN expectations
Year 2: overachieved national expectations and met VN expectations
Year 3: met/meeting national expectations and failing to meet VN expectations.

It's no wonder that national media and fans think VN is a bunch of wackos.

And that will become really obvious when VN finally runs CCM out of town and we hire Mr. 15-win. But by then, it will be too late, and it'll require a decade or more to repair the damage VN caused.
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He has never met my expectations.

My expectations are to play in the dance. That's not too unreasonable in my opinion. Does that mean missing it one year is a fireable offence? No. But missing it every year is.

There's another issue here, and that is the Ghost of Bruce Pearl. As long as Bruce Pearl isn't coaching, the majority of vol fans want him. Hart can be the king of the world by hiring him or at least hush the issue by hiring someone else and proving Pearl isn't an option.
 
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#78
#78
UT's#1Fan said:
I'm not advocating for the Vols to lose. Not at all. I'm simply stating an opinion that IF they lose (tonight), it could be viewed as a win for the long term success of the program because it would likely (hopefully) mean the end of Cuonzo's time as HC at UT.

Example... say Dooley beats Vandy the last year he was here... they go on to beat UK and play in a bowl. No way he's fired and we're stuck with him another year at least and the football program continues to regress.... instead, he losses to Vandy and the writing is on the wall. You'd be a fool to say that series of events, while hard to swallow at the time (the loss to vandy), wasn't good for the long term development of the football program.

The basketball program is in a very similar position. While a loss tonight would suck in the short term, we could be looking back in a few years as it being the best thing for the program. Sure, this is next level thinking, so try your best to understand it.
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We understand it fine. You can drop the "next level thinking" bullcrap, because anyone who's paid attention to your posting history in here knows exactly what your angle is.
 
#80
#80
Exfix said:
You two are all over it after a three game win streak against marginal teams. I am happy for the limited success CCM has had. But I haven't figured out if you were asleep during the CBP years or maybe just ignored CCMs postseason flameouts every year. Maybe this is the year we make a run. But to this point, 19-20 wins in a sorry SEC and a horrible postseason track record (remember last years NIT?) isn't enough to be all over CCMs junk like you are. Feel free to sticky this.
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If you think I'm "all over CCMs junk", then you clearly haven't been paying attention. Not being all aboard the Brucemobile doesn't equate to being 100% pro-Martin either. The two ideas aren't mutually exclusive, and there are other options.

I just accept the idea that this team is still alive, and whether you support Martin or not (I've stated many times that I am all for moving on from him if we miss the tournament), this teams deserves to be supported.

The fact is though, and it's largely ignored by people like yourself, this team is playing as well and consistently across the board as it has all season. I'm not basing that on the results of games against bad competition either, though winning consecutively by 30-point margins is impressive no matter the opponent. I base it on the product on the court; the decisions (both coaching and players), the shot selection, the hustle, the defensive intensity, the gameplan and adjustments. If you don't see a difference in this team now and a month ago, then you either aren't paying attention, or you don't want to have your opinion changed.
 
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#82
#82
Fullfillmer said:
I think three things...
1. There is really nothing wrong with the Tennessee basketball tradition. Mears and Aberdeen did a good job - a few others were ok and Pearl had us in the dance 5 or 6 years running. UT has a great fan base and could easily be a top tier basketball school. Also, if for example CCM has a poor showing with next years team - is let go as a result - I don't see him landing at any school that I would consider an upgrade.

2. This sounds like the excuse argued for keeping Bill Battle as he won a lot of games his first couple of years largely with Dickey's recruits. Let see how CCM does next season and the year after before we anoint him a 20 game winner every year.

3. There is a reason that Las Vegas has UT ranked as the 19th best team in the country. It is because we are that talented. I know it, you know it, most of the fans know it. I don't place the underachieving blame entirely on CCM - but he is the captain of the ship. This team was and still is capable of greatness - but if you are going to give CCM credit for their wins, you have to be willing to place blame when they are not coached well. This team should only have a handful of losses and to say otherwise is flat out wrong. That is where the frustration begins and ends with CCM.
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1. Unless we lose tomorrow to USC, CCM will almost certainly leave this program before it leaves him. Purdue, Oklahoma State, Temple, Wake Forest, or Arkansas would all be "typical" of the type of options he would probably have (as an example from this year), and all could rightly claim to be better programs both historically and right now than UT.

2. Next year's team is already quite a bit better than the one CCM inherited in his first year at UT, and he won 20 games good for 3rd place in the SEC (while predicted to finish 10th) with that team of ragtags. But yes, I agree time will tell. I'm not a CCM lover, just a realist.

3. Las Vegas publishes no rankings at all that I know of (and I am pretty hardcore as a sports fan, especially for a data geek who would love to have such numbers in his possession). All basketball teams except the very elite have inexplicable losses on their schedules in this age of parity (where were you last week when Kansas lost to West Virginia?) - and that's why the expectations of VN are so silly. You condemn all of the losses without context (we are three free throws in 2 aTm games from being a 6 seed right now, and CCM had nothing to do with missing those - HE put the team in a position to win those games and the players execution blew it). You write off the good wins as simply meeting expectations. You are therefore divorced from basketball reality of 2014.

And I mean that in the kindest way possible, since you are being quite civil - I mean no offense at all.:hi:
 
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#85
#85
Stevorino said:
He has never met my expectations.

My expectations are to play in the dance. That's not too unreasonable in my opinion. Does that mean missing it one year is a fireable offence? No. But missing it every year is.

There's another issue here, and that is the Ghost of Bruce Pearl. As long as Bruce Pearl isn't coaching, the majority of vol fans want him. Hart can be the king of the world by hiring him or at least hush the issue by hiring someone else and proving Pearl isn't an option.
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As i mentioned in the other thread - your expectations for being in the dance in year one are totally unrealistic (CBP left the cupboard bare and we were predicted 10th, finished 3rd, and got screwed by Ole Miss). Your expectations in year two have a little merit, but we really got jobbed by the committee last year, despite again not really being predicted to even sniff the tournament. And then you go on to assume that we won't make it this year, which doesn't even warrant a response until Sunday, but undermines the rest of your argument.

Your second paragraph explains why you wrote your first. After your back massage with Kate Upton and your dinner with the Prime Minister of France, let me know how your hiring of Bruce Pearl comes out - all are equally likely.
 
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#87
#87
UT's#1Fan said:
We're in a win/win situation...

  • Win and we are likely for sure in the NCAA with a chance to send the gators home early and further bolster our NCAA resume. This scenario helps build Conzos coaching resume and hopefully Purdue comes ah-call'n.
  • Lose and Conzo likely gets the boot and we can go after a coach that shall remain unnamed as to avoid the thread being merged with another thread that shall also remain unnamed.

You see, if Arky would have beat USCe, and if we'da lost to them, it would have been somewhat justifiable to the Conzoites. Now, we're set up pretty nice and a loss would be inexusable.

Wertcha thank?
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Your country board Word usage to be cute, destroyed your thought process and only validated that we may have a Bi-polar fan base.

Anybody that is looking beyond this game today is setting themselves up for major disappointment. Especially, when the results, your argument dictates CCMs Job Security.

Yet you have managed to double down with expectations in both directions, win or lose.

The biggest disappointment, is that fact you have associated Jalen Hurd with this absurdity. Nice way to say "stupidity"
 
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#89
#89
Exfix said:
You two are all over it after a three game win streak against marginal teams. I am happy for the limited success CCM has had. But I haven't figured out if you were asleep during the CBP years or maybe just ignored CCMs postseason flameouts every year. Maybe this is the year we make a run. But to this point, 19-20 wins in a sorry SEC and a horrible postseason track record (remember last years NIT?) isn't enough to be all over CCMs junk like you are. Feel free to sticky this.
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I removed it myself. Not worth it.
 
#91
#91
PagingDrVol said:
As i mentioned in the other thread - your expectations for being in the dance in year one are totally unrealistic (CBP left the cupboard bare and we were predicted 10th, finished 3rd, and got screwed by Ole Miss). Your expectations in year two have a little merit, but we really got jobbed by the committee last year, despite again not really being predicted to even sniff the tournament. And then you go on to assume that we won't make it this year, which doesn't even warrant a response until Sunday, but undermines the rest of your argument.

Your second paragraph explains why you wrote your first. After your back massage with Kate Upton and your dinner with the Prime Minister of France, let me know how your hiring of Bruce Pearl comes out - all are equally likely.
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Actually predicted 11th of 12 and finished in a tie for 2nd, in which we won the tiebreaker IIRC.
 
#94
#94
PagingDrVol said:
I think three things...
1. The next school CCM coaches at will be one with a better basketball tradition than UT.

2. That UT fans should be careful what they wish for, because there's an excellent chance that the next coach won't win 60 games in his first three seasons here.

3. That UT fans who are disappointed with CCMs performance this year did that to themselves, by creating expectations in their own heads about how good this team would be (when no one in the national media had us ranked preseason, that says something), by pumping sunshine, then choosing to believe it, and then getting turned off when the team performed almost exactly like the experts outside the Vol Bubble said they would.

Heck, let's make it four things:
4. There is a 100% chance that Bruce Pearl will never coach here again.
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We did start in the preseason top 25. People where talking UT up big time before the season. Its not the fans fault for believing this team should have been a top 25 team this year with a NBA player (McRae) and then we have two of the best bigs in the nation. There isn't any excuse for the mediocrity of this years team. Especially with how bad the SEC was this year. This was the most talented squad CCM has had in his career and he completely underachieved with motivating this team and getting them to be halfway consistent from game to game. I for one have not seen one thing that makes me think CCM will have UT regularly in the big dance if he is the coach after this season.
 
#96
#96
PagingDrVol said:
1. Unless we lose tomorrow to USC, CCM will almost certainly leave this program before it leaves him. Purdue, Oklahoma State, Temple, Wake Forest, or Arkansas would all be "typical" of the type of options he would probably have (as an example from this year), and all could rightly claim to be better programs both historically and right now than UT.

2. Next year's team is already quite a bit better than the one CCM inherited in his first year at UT, and he won 20 games good for 3rd place in the SEC (while predicted to finish 10th) with that team of ragtags. But yes, I agree time will tell. I'm not a CCM lover, just a realist.

3. Las Vegas publishes no rankings at all that I know of (and I am pretty hardcore as a sports fan, especially for a data geek who would love to have such numbers in his possession). All basketball teams except the very elite have inexplicable losses on their schedules in this age of parity (where were you last week when Kansas lost to West Virginia?) - and that's why the expectations of VN are so silly. You condemn all of the losses without context (we are three free throws in 2 aTm games from beinga 6 seed right now and CCM had nothing to do with those). You write off the good wins as simply meeting expectations. You are therefore divorced from basketball reality of 2014.

And I mean that in the kindest way possible, since you are being quite civil - I mean no offense at all.:hi:
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1. I agree that he probably could move onto one of those programs. I'd wonder if it'd truly be an upgrade to those programs (other than Wake, which I do think is a clear upgrade).

2. The team of ragtags is his team of ragtags. He has had plenty of time to get some studs in. This isn't football.

3. You make the tourney or you don't. It's really that simple. You can leave Vegas out of it and any trivial newspaper rankings. You are in or you are out. For truly good teams, it's a matter of HOW you do in the tournament - we're fretting about even getting in.
 
#97
#97
PagingDrVol said:
As i mentioned in the other thread - your expectations for being in the dance in year one are totally unrealistic (CBP left the cupboard bare and we were predicted 10th, finished 3rd, and got screwed by Ole Miss). Your expectations in year two have a little merit, but we really got jobbed by the committee last year, despite again not really being predicted to even sniff the tournament. And then you go on to assume that we won't make it this year, which doesn't even warrant a response until Sunday, but undermines the rest of your argument.

Your second paragraph explains why you wrote your first. After your back massage with Kate Upton and your dinner with the Prime Minister of France, let me know how your hiring of Bruce Pearl comes out - all are equally likely.
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I don't think it's totally unrealistic to ever set an expectation to get in the dance from the SEC.

That being said, I do give CCM a pass on year one. That was a nasty hand.

'Being jobbed by the committee' is a bad excuse. If you leave it up for debate, you didn't play well enough.

I actually think they'll make it this year - and I hope they do. They are playing really well right now. That being said, if CCM doesn't make it - I would say it's time to go.

I think the odds of Bruce returning are minimal. The reason I think there is a glimmer of hope is because Hart could make it happen and would instantly make UT basketball go nuts. That has to be a tempting button to push.
 
#98
#98
If the vols make the tourney Martin should be back. I think the problem is the Vols look so good at times but haven't been able to sustain it for long periods. Both of the first 2 seasons we had runs in the later part of the season that gave fans hope for the future. Only to come back the next year and lay some duds. Assuming Martin makes the tournament this year and is back, the expectations are on him next year. If the expectations are low then it will be his fault. It will be his players and there will be no excuses. Im all for bringing him back because I think next year is his make or break year. Plus as I have said before UT will not pay 2.5 million plus for a new coach this year. We will be stuck with an up and comer hoping they work out.
 
#99
#99
UTjonez said:
We did start in the preseason top 25. People where talking UT up big time before the season. Its not the fans fault for believing this team should have been a top 25 team this year with a NBA player (McRae) and then we have two of the best bigs in the nation. There isn't any excuse for the mediocrity of this years team. Especially with how bad the SEC was this year. This was the most talented squad CCM has had in his career and he completely underachieved with motivating this team and getting them to be halfway consistent from game to game. I for one have not seen one thing that makes me think CCM will have UT regularly in the big dance if he is the coach after this season.
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The analysts didnt know that Hubbs was gonna be hurt, that TN Barton wasn't gonna be Memphis Barton, and that Maymon wasnt gonna play like ol Maymonn either
 
#100
#100
UTjonez said:
We did start in the preseason top 25. People where talking UT up big time before the season. Its not the fans fault for believing this team should have been a top 25 team this year with a NBA player (McRae) and then we have two of the best bigs in the nation. There isn't any excuse for the mediocrity of this years team. Especially with how bad the SEC was this year. This was the most talented squad CCM has had in his career and he completely underachieved with motivating this team and getting them to be halfway consistent from game to game. I for one have not seen one thing that makes me think CCM will have UT regularly in the big dance if he is the coach after this season.
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No we didn't.
 
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