The Vols Offense

#26
#26
I don't think we will fully know what potential of this offense until we get a quarterback that is a good passer.
 
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#27
#27
Our rushing yards was in spite of a poor OL. Hurd was hit in the back field almost every old it seems, but he was strong enough to still make positive yards most the time

Dobbs seems like he decided who to throw to before the snap. That's why he overlooks the wide open receivers and throws into double coverage. part of that maybe because he doesn't have enough time to go thru any progressions (again goes back to OL)

We need to keep recruiting better talent for the OL first and foremost. Hall and Jones stabilized the line last year when they started playing. Hopefully Richmond settles down and becomes a force too.
 
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#28
#28
Stats can most always be used to show the desired result you want, be it positive or negative. What if Dobbs threw for the same total yards but threw even more screens and had a 65% completion. Not any additional yards but looks like he has improved (I didn't use this example to disparage Dobbs). The article was saying that field position and turnovers increased team scoring. I agree with this but field position has nothing to do with the 2nd most rushing yards in Vol history. This same offense everyone is hating on, is the same offense used last year. it also rushed for more yards against Ala than most any team in several years. To me the offensive attack is only limited by the passing ability, not play calling. In the 3 years Hurd has been here, he is most probably going to set a team record, with this offese. There have been many running backs come thru running the I formation that have not held that distinction. As for passing across the middle!! I think the coaches are afraid to let Dobbs throw there. Plenty of room for trouble versus throwing WR screens or sideline patterns where the ball normally goes incomplete out of bounds with fewer chances of tips or interceptions throwing ahead or behind the receiver. Just my food for thought.
 
#30
#30
VOL-uh-tile said:
One of my favorite places to read about the Vols is from rocktoptalk on sbnation. They recently came up with an article analyzing what about our offense worked last year. After all, we amassed the 2nd most rushing yards in school history, and scored the 2nd or 3rd most points in the SEC last season.

Well in short, it didn't. They found our efficiency, explosiveness, and drive finishing lacking (based off of the analytics they utilize over there, which I'm not completely sold on).

The greatest assets to our offense they found were Evan Berry and Cam Sutton and lack of turnovers.

The article I'm referring to can be found here: Tennessee's Offensive Calling Card - Rocky Top Talk

I found this information deeply unsettling. It seems we don't have an offensive identity, and rely solely on the talent of our players to grind out yards (looking at Hurd). What does VN think? Does this give you cause for concern in following seasons?
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They're not entirely wrong.

IMO, one of the things that has probably inhibited Dobbs' progress as a passer is the obsession Jones has for "ball security". They don't let Dobbs take many chances to fit the ball in.

Jones believes that being conservative and having low turnovers wins. And it does.... against the lesser teams on your schedule. Against the better teams, you have to be able to make plays that involve some risks.
 
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#31
#31
kamoshika said:
And, yes, I'm concerned going forward, especially when I look back at DeBord's numbers at Michigan (with ridiculous talent on hand) and knowing Butch Jones was perfectly OK w/ hiring someone who fielded mostly mediocre offenses...and then I look at how we're performing so far this year.

.
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Butch hired someone who would run HIS offense HIS way.
 
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#32
#32
sjt18 said:
Butch hired someone who would run HIS offense HIS way.
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Exactly. He said so himself. Go back and listen to all of his pressers when making this hire. He wanted someone that wouldn't change what they are trying to do. Butch's offensive philosophy is low risk low reward. That's why every game is close.

Just thinking out loud here, but maybe Bajakian wanted to open it up. Bye bye Bajakian. Did yall see Jameis carve up my Falcons Sunday? Dropping bombs. I know he's just the quarterbacks coach and Dobbs is not Jameis Winston, but damn. Crazy right?
 
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#35
#35
sjt18 said:
They're not entirely wrong.

IMO, one of the things that has probably inhibited Dobbs' progress as a passer is the obsession Jones has for "ball security". They don't let Dobbs take many chances to fit the ball in.

Jones believes that being conservative and having low turnovers wins. And it does.... against the lesser teams on your schedule. Against the better teams, you have to be able to make plays that involve some risks.
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while this is pretty dang close to being the nexus of why quite a few on VN are frustrated....it isn't the central issue.

Ball security....well, I think Saban....maybe even Meyer and Fisher. That really is the key. Saban is about the most conservative coach out there...he out talents everyone, which gives him the edge 97.5% of the time.

I do like CBJ a lot and think he's trying to build something....mainly from a leadership and program standpoint. While I like what he's done in that regard, I'm not a huge fan of the offensive scheme.

"Splash plays", while they may be great for highlight reels, aren't the answer. Yet, that is what the vast majority of today's college football fans want to see...BIG 12 type scores and games; prolific Offenses with no semblance of Defense. Whoever scores the most....wins...or maybe you want both....well, that just isn't very realistic week to week.

You might beat a few more folks now and then...even catch a superior team off guard (UM).....but....Defense wins championships at this level. The axiom isn't dead yet. Protect the ball...pound your opponent into submission will work the vast majority of the time.

The only real time I've seen Saban beat, when there wasn't a TO advantage, was OSU a couple years ago. Meyer beat him at his own game and OSU didn't turn over the ball....they challenged UA / Saban to beat their Defense...which UA didn't and their Offense bested Saban's D!

Want to win college football? Build an elite Defense and a pound it out on Offense...with a serviceable "game manager" under center. That, my friends, has been the key to success more often than not over the past 10 + years.
 
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#37
#37
JC61 said:
Want to win college football? Build an elite Defense and a pound it out on Offense...with a serviceable "game manager" under center. That, my friends, has been the key to success more often than not over the past 10 + years.
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But most on here would say that is boring and any offense that just pounds it out is not a very good offense.

I do agree with you though - some of the teams that score a lot of points MUST score a lot of points because they really do not have an elite defense.
 
#38
#38
VOL-uh-tile said:
One of my favorite places to read about the Vols is from rocktoptalk on sbnation. They recently came up with an article analyzing what about our offense worked last year. After all, we amassed the 2nd most rushing yards in school history, and scored the 2nd or 3rd most points in the SEC last season.

Well in short, it didn't. They found our efficiency, explosiveness, and drive finishing lacking (based off of the analytics they utilize over there, which I'm not completely sold on).

The greatest assets to our offense they found were Evan Berry and Cam Sutton and lack of turnovers.

The article I'm referring to can be found here: Tennessee's Offensive Calling Card - Rocky Top Talk

I found this information deeply unsettling. It seems we don't have an offensive identity, and rely solely on the talent of our players to grind out yards (looking at Hurd). What does VN think? Does this give you cause for concern in following seasons?
Click to expand...

You do realize they could write this same thing about a lot of teams and it could probably also be said of last years NFL Super Bowl champions.

Defense wins championships! Special teams which dictate field position are just as important.

You can win championships without an explosive offense. You can't win without an exceptional defense. You can't win without minimizing the turnovers!
 
#39
#39
Blueticks said:
Isn't this scheme we are running the same scheme that struggled to score points against a Sal Sunseri led defense? Don't remember too many other teams that struggled putting points on the board against us that year.
We have the talent now and depth to be a dynamic offense, the only variable in which we lack is a well thought out scheme to utilize the multitude of talent we possess offensively.
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Wrong year. We actually had a really good DC that season. Sal was 2012 v 2011.
 
#42
#42
volfan102455 said:
You can win championships without an explosive offense. You can't win without an exceptional defense. You can't win without minimizing the turnovers!
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See the 2014 Ohio State & 2010 Auburn teams; neither had exceptional defenses but both featured high-scoring, explosive offenses.

Also see the 2008 Vols, who finished 5-7 with the SEC's best defense and a nauseatingly bad offense.

FWIW, the last 10 NCAA champs have averaged 6.66 yards per play on offense and given up 4.35 yards per defensive play, a margin of 2.21. The thinnest margins for champions were 1.6 (2015 Alabama) and 1.4 yards per play (2007 LSU).

In the last 15 years UT's ypp margin has exceeded 1.0 only once, in 2001 (5.9 offense, 4.7 defense). Not coincidentally, we ended up with our best record and highest final ranking during that timespan.

Overall balance is critical to winning championships, and a little bit of good luck along the way doesn't hurt.

Sidenote: Over the past 10 years, the national champions averaged 230 yards passing and 222 yards rushing per game. Only one champ averaged under 200 yards passing per game ('09 Alabama with 188 ypg); likewise, just one champ averaged under 200 yards rushing per game ('06 Florida with 160 ypg).
 
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#43
#43
FlyFishnVol said:
The dynamics of team 121 and after will be completely different, to be honest I think it will be a more balanced Offense because Dobbs will be gone.....the next QB will have a better arm who ever wins the position and more time to absorb the scheme, something Dobbs was thrown into vs. getting to absorb over time.
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I agree with what you're saying but without an offensive line that can block it does not matter who is throwing the football.
 
#44
#44
Vols_14 said:
We rely a lot on individual talent to make plays. However I think our offense (like most) relies heavily on OLine play. If we have no push up front then our playmakers can't do anything most of the time. But if we protect Dobbs, create running holes and get push on the Oline our playmakers get open and make plays.
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that can be said about any offense
 
#46
#46
Vol_til_I_die said:
Not necessarily. Again, to me, it goes back to having a dominant (I'll even take competitive) O-line and a pass-first multidimensional QB (not knocking Dobbs, either). We all know that it begins in the trenches. Hopefully it all comes together. This season isn't lost yet and hopefully, with recruiting and development, the future doesn't have to seem so bleak.
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Come on guys!!! We are 2-0 and blew out a pretty good Virginia Tech Team (I know we didn't do well in the first quarter, but so does CBJ). Florida has struggled against UMass along with Georgia struggling with Nicholls State! We can still very easily win the East and go to the SECCG!!! Let's just get behind our team and hope and pray for a speedy recovery from DKjr and Hall cuz them coming back will completely transform our team this year! NO MORE FLOOD GATES BEING OPENED 2 SECONDS AFTER THE BALL IS SNAPPED & NO MORE WIDE OPEN PASSES ACROSS THE MIDDLE (On Jumper)! Go Vols!!!
 
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#47
#47
I actually woke up in a cold sweat because I dreamed the bobcats beat us by 2 touchdowns in Neyland. This season is destroying me already.
 
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#48
#48
TennMan101 said:
Come on guys!!! We are 3-0 and blew out a pretty good Virginia Tech Team (I know we didn't do well in the first quarter, but so does CBJ). Florida has struggled against UMass along with Georgia struggling with Nicholls State! We can still very easily win the East and go to the SECCG!!! Let's just get behind our team and hope and pray for a speedy recovery from DKjr and Hall cuz them coming back will completely transform our team this year! NO MORE FLOOD GATES BEING OPENED 2 SECONDS AFTER THE BALL IS SNAPPED & NO MORE WIDE OPEN PASSES ACROSS THE MIDDLE! Go Vols!!!
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We're 2-0 my man, 2-0.
 
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