The vanilla offense, and an alternate thought on it...

#52
#52
volmsbd said:
Here's the alternate thought. The offense is so vanilla because they aren't capable of anything else. Between the coaches and the qb, we have nothing worthy of winning football games. Our offense is as intimidating as Doogie Howser in an MMA fight.
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I just cannot buy this. Why? Just take a look at our offensive production coming down to end of season last year, couple it with our bowl game, and note the abundance of returning players. The recent issue has nothing to do with our capabilities, it had to do with our quality of play. Our OL guys outweighed the DL guys about 50 pounds and if we did not or could not take advantage of that it's on us not doing something we should have done.
 
#53
#53
Fullfillmer said:
I posted this last year -- it is time to bring it back.

Run/run/pass Run/run/pass Run/run/pass Run/run/pass Run/run/pass Run/run/pass
" " "
" " "

Hurd carrying it over 50% of the plays on first down - causes me concern that my sarcastic thread isn't specific enough - since not only are they running it every first down they are giving it to the same back every time.
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Hate to.nitpick but we did call a pass play nearly 50% of first downs on Thursday. Thought an actual fact would be in order here. Not defending the offense it's just your statement is false.
 
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#54
#54
TucsonVol said:
I agree. Butch Jones had Debord in their to call Butch's vanilla plays. If you are scared to take a risk then you will soon fail!!

1st down Run up the middle
2cnd down Run up the middle
3rd down Overthrow the receivers
4th down Punt

Over, and over, and over, and over, and over
Anybody can figure out how to defend against Butch Jones.
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False....see above. Another poster actually broke down play calling in another thread over the weekend. This may be your impression but not factual.
 
#56
#56
I was not aware of the quote by CBJ about making in-game adjustments....That's a pretty serious cause for concern considering the L's we took last year and the L we almost took last week. Sometimes the game plan you think is going to work, doesn't!!! So why in the world would you not make adjustments? Mind boggling!!!
 
#57
#57
photovol said:
This explains why Thomas was unable to stay upright as he spent much time on his backside
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seriously, if you're going to make an assessment of the OL, at least make sure it's not asinine.

The OL probably should have been better. ASU was flying all over the place and played their collective hearts out...which, I agree with most...shouldn't have mattered.

However, rewatch the O highlights that Freak posted. Thomas missed maybe 4 assignments all night in pass pro. 1 was definitely a screen pass...so probably on purpose and another looked sorta like a screen to me.

Additionally, I was frustrated w/ his play last Thurs. After rewatching, some of the one's I thought were misses in the game appear to be him going to the second level on run plays to block the LB....may have not been his assignment to hit a DL on those plays.

Dobbs had 4-5 seconds on a majority of plays to throw...that aint on the OL. Even Musburger was talking about how much time he had.

Can't put it all on the OL...QB has got to be able to make decisions and throw when given ample time.
 
#58
#58
johnrlansford said:
Center Coleman Thomas was playing with an ankle injury...
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So why in the **** did we keep running the ball up the middle?!? If you aren't going to sub in a guy with a working ankle then adjust the play calls to minimize your weaknesses. This is why I question this coaching staff and Thursday was more than just "1 bad game"
 
#59
#59
IPleadInsanity said:
So the question to be answered in the coming weeks is, was that a vanilla offense or is our offense vanilla?
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If we beat UF and /or Bama with this offense, then it will be a great offense. If we lose any games this season, the offense is vanilla. Basically whatever fits the agendas on VN is what works.
 
#60
#60
volmandu said:
I can agree with 'vanilla offense' argument if we were leading even by a TD. We were trailing in the game, going 3 and outs. If not for Sutton's timely INT we would be 0-1. If indeed we went in with the 'vanilla offense' plan, why didn't we make adjustments at the half being down 13-3 ?
This coaching staff sucks at making any in-game adjustments. They have in the past (OU, FL, BAMA, ARKY and even USCjr last year) and continue to do so !!
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And high school kicker. Don't forget there shouldn't been overtime
 
#61
#61
TucsonVol said:
I agree. Butch Jones had Debord in their to call Butch's vanilla plays. If you are scared to take a risk then you will soon fail!!

1st down Run up the middle
2cnd down Run up the middle
3rd down Overthrow the receivers
4th down Punt

Over, and over, and over, and over, and over.

Anybody can figure out how to defend against Butch Jones.
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Sounds like a Randy Sanders offense
 
#63
#63
LA Vol said:
Yes. He talked about how they spent a lot of time preparing the gameplan they thought gave the team the best chance to win and how he felt their decisions were the right ones and they stood by them.
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That's scary. And quite honestly, we've seen that reflected in how some games have played out, including last Thursday....they were simply winning or losing with that gameplan no matter what.
 
#64
#64
What happened to trying to score touchdowns? All this getting to a third and manageable is a joke. Let the playmakers make plays. Did you see JMs reaction after his big play? He knows that's what he does. Everyone knows that's what he does. Guys like PW, JM, and Kamara are electric. Hurd is more of the punishing back that we hand the ball to regularly. Even a guy like Hurd can't get any forward progress when they put 9 men in the box. Without the threat of big plays behind the box the defense cheats up.
 
#65
#65
LA Vol said:
CBJ has said he doesn't make in-game adjustments. The coaches stick with the gameplan. Shoop may not do that, but DeBord does.
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this is why we can't win the big games. butch is stubborn and it costs us big games. see florida the last 2 years.
 
#67
#67
govols105 said:
this is why we can't win the big games. butch is stubborn and it costs us big games. see florida the last 2 years.
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That was not the only reason for the FL loss. Go back and watch the game and look for the opportunities to make plays on the defensive side of the ball. A number of chances to put the game away and it just didn't happen. Placing the blame solely on the coaches while ignoring mistakes made by the players is not an accurate representation of the game.
 
#68
#68
LA Vol said:
Yes. He talked about how they spent a lot of time preparing the gameplan they thought gave the team the best chance to win and how he felt their decisions were the right ones and they stood by them.
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All teams, even this one, make in-game adjustments. CBJ may not make drastic game plan changes, but he has to adjust.

Take a look at the difference in play from Saturday's game from the first half to the second half. The defense stepped up with no points scored in the last 38 minutes of the game and held Appy St to 3 of 13 on third down conversions. The offense scored the last 17 point of the game.

Did UT perform as expected? No. Did TCU perform as expected against an FCS team? No. Did MSU perform as expected against S AL? No. Did ARK perform as expected against LA Tech? No.

There were a number of key things that hurt the team, including OL play, turnovers, the ejection, and penalties. When your OL outweighs the DL by 50 pounds a person, you should be able to run the ball. When you muff a punt, throw an INT, put the ball on the ground a couple of other times, and lose your best defensive player in the first quarter, you will struggle. All summer this team heard how great they were going to be. Psychologically the team was not ready to play and the lack of preparedness is on the coaches and the players. I expect to see a different team on Saturday.

I too was furious at the way the team played, but let's remember this is game one. If they play poorly Saturday, then we will definitely have a huge coaching issue.
 
#69
#69
1986sugarvols said:
And high school kicker. Don't forget there shouldn't been overtime
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Or If P. Will doesn't drop a sure TD then there is no OT either. I would say our miscues were a lot more impactful with all of the turnovers and dropped passes. We were favors by 20. With our miscues and poor execution I'd say we left 10-14 points easily on the board. BTW we won by 7...

When you have that many miscues and poor execution you are lucky to win vs an opponent like App St. who is no pushover.
 
#71
#71
I think they came in vanilla because they overestimated App State. They don't or can't make in game adjustments and it about cost them. Dobbs had more freedom in overtime and we scored. Oddly enough, if you watch the play where Dobbs fumbles, if he just lets Hurd have it, the 1st person to touch him is the safety on the goal line.

They came in vanilla and it about cost them. Honestly I've never understood the vanilla game plan. Why not show almost everything you got and make them game plan for everything you got. Its like Bud Foster said at his PC. We were vanilla but he expects more of what we all saw last year. They have plenty of film to study on our past offense.

My question is what happens to the narrative if on the 17th if App State beats Miami? Its why you can't go week by week.
 
#72
#72
05_never_again said:
The offensive line couldn't protect Dobbs against App St. If it doesn't markedly improve, the less mobile Dormady would fare much worse than even Dobbs does, IMO.
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I disagree. You're right, the OL played like doggy doo throughout the game, but if Dobbs (or Dormady or Jones) was able to hit a few quick slants / outs on time, then the rush would begin to back off. If their D was getting burned, they would tend to sit back a little more to cover, which would provide more time for the QB and also open running lanes more effectively.
 
#73
#73
Orange_Crush said:
We did appear to be pretty vanilla. I agree this does not make sense, seeing that we have a lot of film already on hand for other coaches to dissect.

Unless...

There is one or more fairly radical philosophy changes on hand gong forward, and the staff doesn't want to tip that hand too soon. Maybe more I-formation? Maybe they have seen improvement in Dobbs' passing and the WR play, so they plan to use a lot more passing, and new passing concepts this year?

As an aside: Why was our center play so putrid? It looks to me, with solid center play on O, 80% of our problems go away.
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That would be awesome. Loved it at the bowl game.

I agree though I think its about deception and unfortunately that deception made them look bad during the opening game. Its almost like they want to keep Dobbs legs a secret. Guess what boys and girls, the cats been out of the bag for a few years now!
 
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#74
#74
I think the in-game adjustments comments by the coaching staff may be being taken a bit too heavily by some on this board...

When I read/hear the coaches say they don't make adjustments to the game plan, to me it makes sense because I imagine what they mean by that is that they have a plan they have set in place specifically for that particular opponent that they have researched/done film study for and to deviate from that plan that the team has practiced/keyed on for a whole week during the game could potentially be confusing/disastrous.

I don't take it as "we just keep running the same things over and over even if the defense takes it away" or something to that effect...
 
#75
#75
Remy said:
I just cannot buy this. Why? Just take a look at our offensive production coming down to end of season last year, couple it with our bowl game, and note the abundance of returning players. The recent issue has nothing to do with our capabilities, it had to do with our quality of play. Our OL guys outweighed the DL guys about 50 pounds and if we did not or could not take advantage of that it's on us not doing something we should have done.
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Here's what I can buy...we are not a well coached football team. Last year we had some decent production towards the end of the season against lesser opponents. Problem is, guys seem to regress under this staff too much. Too many guys don't get better...they aren't developed. And DeBoring is a dinosaur that calls a dinosaur's game. Look at Fl State, Alabama, even Ole Miss and others. Look at their offenses. They mix it up and their offenses look fluid. Our offense is a laughing stock. They looked so elementary the other night it was sickening. They should never look like that. They looked like they were tripping over their own feet. It is embarrassing. We need an o.c. with a mind for today's game, and we need a head coach built for the SEC. Jones is not SEC caliber and he continues to show that week in and week out. These guys have had plenty of time to do something with this talent and they have basically done nothing. We are stacked on both sides of the ball but you would never see it. These kids were all top notch in high school, and then our team looks so average. It's not like these kids all of a sudden forgot how to play football?? They arent being developed and taught how to excel at this level because of our sub par staff. #GOVOLS
 
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