the stars and bars

#26
#26
OrangeEmpire said:
Civil War nut would be better, you should see my basement.
I have been to several battlefieds.
On our honeymoon we spend the majority of our time in Colonial Williamsburg but I got to cover most of the peninsula campaign, we also stopped in Richmond and Lexington, Virginia.
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I'm on an extended CW history hiatus but I keep buying books on the subject in case I ever fully regain my interest level. I'm hoping to get out and do a little relic hunting in the back yard before the foilage starts to fill in.
 
#27
#27
melissa hyberger said:
like i said originally, go ask the american indians (whats left of them) how they feel about the American flag.

that awful war of ours was not fought over slavery, it was fought over states rights. the southern states had every right to succeed from the union. it was guaranteed in the constitution. where the law of the country was broken was when the northern army invaded the southern states.
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First, to the victors go the spoils. I also don't see a lot of American Flags flying on Indian Reservations.

Second, thank you for the revisionist history. Yes, the states had every right to secede. However, they had absolutely no right to open fire on Federal Troops at Ft. Sumter. Ft. Sumter, being a federal instillation, did not belong to South Carolina, it belonged to the Federal Government of the United States. Therefore, the Union Troops had every right to be there, while, again, the South Carolina militia was in the wrong when it opened fire.
 
#28
#28
Most of the time the flag is flying on the side of a beat up pickup truck and there is a hatefull redneck behind the wheel. That is just the facts.
 
#29
#29
melissa hyberger said:
like i said originally, go ask the american indians (whats left of them) how they feel about the American flag. its a stupid and usless argument concerning the confederate battle flag. my family fought for the confederacy. i had one grandfather who was with gen. lee, and another who was a leader at shilo. both named venable. if you sit back and let these politicians redo history, before long it will be illeagl to wear a cross or have a cross on top of a church house because it offends someone who is not christian. this kind of nosense is already taking place all across our country as we speak. that awful war of ours was not fought over slavery, it was fought over states rights. the southern states had every right to succeed from the union. it was guaranteed in the constitution. where the law of the country was broken was when the northern army invaded the southern states. i dispise slavery as any
GOD fearing Christian should. but that was not what that war was about. the same northern government that conndemed the south was the same government that sent troops out west killing innocent men, women, and children because of their skin color. the buffalo soldiers were named by the indians because they reminded them of the buffalo.(black skin, curly black hair). and guess what? we make a postage stamp honoring them. unfortunatly the victors in any war pretty much get to write the history books and they in turn are able to write history to suit their own needs. yankee history has custer down as an American hero. go out west and hear the true American opinion of that horrible man. custer wasnt killed in battle as were his men, he blew his own brains out because of the true coward he was. that is why he wasnt scalped by the Indians. they concidered suicide an act of cowardness. but hey custer if im not mistaken is buried at arlington with full military honors why his men were buried where they fell. its all a double standard any way you cut it.
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Melissa I can appreciate your respect for history . . . but the history and true meaning of the flag mean little at this point. It's not the flag itself; it's the symbol it has come.

The swastika was a neat little religious symbol used by the Hindus among others until the Nazis got a hold of it in the 1930s. Try flying that in your front yard based on true meaning and see what happens.
 
#30
#30
GAVol said:
Melissa I can appreciate your respect for history . . . but the history and true meaning of the flag mean absolutely nothing at this point. It's not the flag itself; it's the symbol it has come.

The swastika was a neat little religious symbol used by the Hindus among others until the Nazis got a hold of it in the 1930s. Try flying that in front yard based on true meaning and see what happens.
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Good point, again.
 
#31
#31
when south carolina succeded from the union, south carolina became in itself an independent country. so in fact ft. sumpter became a part of the government of the state of south carolina no longer belonging to the federal government. the union army was given ample time to leave ft. sumpter but refused to do so. that is why it was fired upon by the army of south carolina.....
 
#32
#32
and hey GAVOL, i can appreciate your point and understand it to an extent but you have to remember the crusaders wore the cross on their chest plates. does that mean we should ban the cross as well because a few fanatics misused its meaning? alot of God fearing American,union loving, slavery hating men and women died for the confederacy. gen. lee, and stonewall jackson both abored slavery but fought for their states. they were against the type government that at the time occupied wasington dc. their belief was no differant than that of our nations founders against england and its oppression of the colonies. taxation without representation. thats not opinion its fact.....
 
#33
#33
melissa hyberger said:
when south carolina succeded from the union, south carolina became in itself an independent country. so in fact ft. sumpter became a part of the government of the state of south carolina no longer belonging to the federal government. the union army was given ample time to leave ft. sumpter but refused to do so. that is why it was fired upon by the army of south carolina.....
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Your analysis is wrong. The state of South Carolina did become completely independent of the Federal Government of the United States. The are held by the Federal Government at Ft. Sumter remained the property of the Federal Government.
 
#34
#34
Probably off topic, but I noticed a guy wearing one of these as I was walking to lunch today.

J105_L.jpg
 
#36
#36
Yeah, I raised that point earlier but everyone would rather bitch about the "rebel flag" which is actually a square CSA Naval flag that PGT Beauregard co-opted and made rectangular. Personally, my favorite CSA-associated flag is the Bonnie Blue even if it is a Florida flag.
 
#38
#38
VolunteerHillbilly said:
Yeah, I raised that point earlier but everyone would rather bitch about the "rebel flag" which is actually a square CSA Naval flag that PGT Beauregard co-opted and made rectangular. Personally, my favorite CSA-associated flag is the Bonnie Blue even if it is a Florida flag.
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My favorite CSA-associated flags are the ones Sherman incinerated on his way to the sea.
 
#39
#39
hatvol96 said:
My favorite CSA-associated flags are the ones Sherman incinerated on his way to the sea.
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I'm not old enough to have seen them so I have no way to judge. The Bonnie Blue would be my favorite in a general sense, but if we're getting down to specific flags I'd have to go with this one:

CSA_INF_TN_10thFlag.JPG
 
#43
#43
There is nothing in the Constitution (the 'Contract') that even implies that the states (the 'Parties to the Contract') are bound to the Union.

Section 10, Article I does provide guidance of what is expected of states, however, that is while they are a part of the federation. I do not believe anything compels them to stay.
 
#48
#48
MG1968 said:
I read something recently (can't remember where or what) that stated that once the states ratified the US Constitution, secession was illegal.
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But wouldn't that state cease to recognize the US Constitution as a binding document?
 
#49
#49
CSpindizzy said:
So was Lincoln wrong in his actions?
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Lincoln was using troops to stake claim to federal territory. Once his troops were fired upon, he took that as an act of war.

I think Lincoln was wrong in a lot of ways, but invading the South after his armed force was attacked...I have absolutely not problem with.
 
#50
#50
if im not mistaken the true flag of the confederacy still proudly flies over the state capital of alabama. the union invaded a separate nation at the battle of bulls run. Lincoln knew what he was doing when he forced the south carolina army to fire on sumpter. that war was fought because of a few jealous yankee politicians who were upset about the southern agriculture trade with england. it had nothing to do with slavery.
 
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