The shut down thread

[evillawyer]

Still don't know the point here, so are you assuming that those people would not have care and died if not for illegals? If so that's just dumb. Now would all these people killed,raped or molested by illegals still be alive or not raped if not for undocumented democrats?

Many elderly would go unattended if not for illegal aliens providing in home care. Many kids would stay home alone if not for illegal alien caretakers. Take those caretakers away, and yes, there will be more deaths.

 

[n_huffhines]

That is a piss poor argument because 100% of them aren't supposed to be here but good try on that talking point. And the fact that there is an element of bad apples is the exact reason why we need to do our damn best to secure the freaking border

I have a hypothetical....if you knew the absolute best way to fix our border security was to open up immigration substantially and document people, would you support that method?

 

[volfanjustin]

I have a hypothetical....if you knew the absolute best way to fix our border security was to open up immigration substantially and document people, would you support that method?

Ones that are here now? No
Ones that have been waiting and wanting to do it legally? Yes
And only on a needed basis and only if they are completely vetted, can't ever take any benefits and can never vote

 

[volfanjustin]

Many elderly would go unattended if not for illegal aliens providing in home care. Many kids would stay home alone if not for illegal alien caretakers. Take those caretakers away, and yes, there will be more deaths.

Do you have proof of this?

 

[n_huffhines]

Ones that are here now? No
Ones that have been waiting and wanting to do it legally? Yes
And only on a needed basis and only if they are completely vetted, can't ever take any benefits and can never vote

I was this close to giving you a like, until you said they can't ever vote...so they can't ever become citizens? Why would you want to change that about America? If you want people to assimilate and take ownership of their community, it seems like they should have a path to citizenship.

 

[AirVol]

Of course I don't think you support it. I was making a joke/point that we shouldn't just look the other way and let this happen because it's not as expensive as our foreign wars, like you seemed to be arguing.

It’s not as expensive as sending foreign aid to countries that do squat for the US either.

 

[AirVol]

Many elderly would go unattended if not for illegal aliens providing in home care. Many kids would stay home alone if not for illegal alien caretakers. Take those caretakers away, and yes, there will be more deaths.

Do these aliens speak English?

 

[volfanjustin]

I was this close to giving you a like, until you said they can't ever vote...so they can't ever become citizens? Why would you want to change that about America? If you want people to assimilate and take ownership of their community, it seems like they should have a path to citizenship.

If they would assimilate I could change my mind, but to date many don't assimilate.

 

[n_huffhines]

It’s not as expensive as sending foreign aid to countries that do squat for the US either.

Don't do either. Bad government doesn't excuse more bad government.

 

[n_huffhines]

If they would assimilate I could change my mind, but to date many don't assimilate.

I just saw a quote from Teddy Roosevelt making this same point 100 years ago. We've had 4-5 generations of immigration to observe since Teddy said it...can you name any group that isn't totally assimilated by the 2nd or 3rd generation. Who are these "many" that don't assimilate?

 

[ajvol01]

Of course I don't think you support it. I was making a joke/point that we shouldn't just look the other way and let this happen because it's not as expensive as our foreign wars, like you seemed to be arguing.

My point was why not go after the real reasons for our national debt crisis?

I'm not aware of any problems we've solved or ROI we've realized due to these wars.

$5.6 billion isn't significant in the grand scheme compared to the trillions we've spent on forever wars in the Middle East.

$5.6 billion is not even significant compared to the $700 billion national defense budget for 2018.

The wall is a simple part of a solution to a real problem. Resistance to the wall seems disingenuous and all about Trump and not about fixing the problems of illegal immigration across our southern border. Why does a wall work in El Paso but not the rest of the border?

The wall helps to permanently solve a problem that has failed to be fixed by politicians since 1986 when Reagan agreed to amnesty.

Without a physical barrier the problem continues indefinitely. It's common sense.

Why have most Democrat politicians flip-flopped on this issue over the past 25 years?

I think illegal immigration is good for the democrats. The people coming here illegally are highly motivated by free stuff offered by liberals.

California and NYC are representative of this free stuff - universal healthcare for illegals is being touted as a "basic human right". Ridiculous nonsense.

 

[n_huffhines]

My point was why not go after the real reasons for our national debt crisis?

I'm not aware of any problems we've solved or ROI we've realized due to these wars.

$5.6 billion isn't significant in the grand scheme compared to the trillions we've spent on forever wars in the Middle East.

$5.6 billion is not even significant compared to the $700 billion national defense budget for 2018.

The wall is a simple part of a solution to a real problem. Resistance to the wall seems disingenuous and all about Trump and not about fixing the problems of illegal immigration across our southern border. Why does a wall work in El Paso but not the rest of the border?

The wall helps to permanently solve a problem that has failed to be fixed by politicians since 1986 when Reagan agreed to amnesty.

Without a physical barrier the problem continues indefinitely. It's common sense.

Why have most Democrat politicians flip-flopped on this issue over the past 25 years?

I think illegal immigration is good for the democrats. The people coming here illegally are highly motivated by free stuff offered by liberals.

California and NYC are representative of this free stuff - universal healthcare for illegals is being touted as a "basic human right". Ridiculous nonsense.

The wall will do next to nothing. A wall is what a child king would choose as a solution. You can go under, around, and over a stationary wall. Probably even through it.

I'd prefer the money go to BP than a wall.

 

[NorthDallas40]

I was this close to giving you a like, until you said they can't ever vote...so they can't ever become citizens? Why would you want to change that about America? If you want people to assimilate and take ownership of their community, it seems like they should have a path to citizenship.

If they would assimilate I could change my mind, but to date many don't assimilate.

If they’re here legally and already on the regular path to naturalized citizenship voting should take care of itself. Non Citizens cannot vote. Period. The 15th, 19th, and 26th amendments quantify the voting rights and in all cases specifically start with citizenship.

 

[photovol]

Many elderly would go unattended if not for illegal aliens providing in home care. Many kids would stay home alone if not for illegal alien caretakers. Take those caretakers away, and yes, there will be more deaths.

Twisted take on illegal aliens, now convince us that Felons are good for baby sitting and you win a pair of handcuffs

 

[Septic]

It's called negotiating. When the other side isn't interested in any reason or compromise, walk out ... no sense wasting time on the likes of lil Chuckie and the witch.

LOL, what compromise has Trump offered? He's clearly stated it's his way or the highway. That's not a compromise, its dictation. You red hats would be well served to remember that the presidency isn't a monarchy where monetary decrees from the King are absolute. Your House of representatives has said NO and offered him an actual compromise that was agreed upon by the GOP Senate.

Your analogy remains flawed, the car salesman doesn't get to storm out and expect the guy writing the check to cow down. As stated, throwing tantrums is a lousy negotiating tactic, Mr. Art of the Deal is getting schooled because he has no idea how Washington works.

 

[ajvol01]

The wall will do next to nothing. A wall is what a child king would choose as a solution. You can go under, around, and over a stationary wall. Probably even through it.

I'd prefer the money go to BP than a wall.

So you're for increasing ongoing annual expenses over one time capital investments?

What is the ROI of increasing border patrol agents?

Have you studied this issue?

Have you spoken to any CBP agents/officers?

Why are you so sure a wall won't work?

As a deterrent alone a wall would have a significant impact on the number of attempted illegal border crossings.

How would thousands of people in a caravan cross the border if there was a large barrier protecting the entire border?

 

[LouderVol]

Ones that are here now? No
Ones that have been waiting and wanting to do it legally? Yes
And only on a needed basis and only if they are completely vetted, can't ever take any benefits and can never vote

wtf? if they are becoming citizens they should have every right.

 

[Mick]

Steve King asks how terms 'white nationalist' and 'white supremacist' became offensive
Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) is questioning how terms such as "white nationalist" and "white supremacist" became offensive in the U.S.
“White nationalist, white supremacist, Western civilization — how did that language become offensive?” King asked in an interview with The New York Times published on Thursday. “Why did I sit in classes teaching me about the merits of our history and our civilization?”

King, for example, once went on the House floor to showcase a 12-foot wall for the southern border that he designed.

King’s divisive comments about immigration have led to scrutiny in past years. He once tweeted that diversity is not America's strength.
In 2018, he also defended his association with a far-right Austrian group with links to the Nazi party and hard-line views on immigration.

He added that he supports legal immigrants fully assimilating because “the culture of America” matters more than race, according to the newspaper.

I bolded the far right keyword for today.

 

[LouderVol]

So you're for increasing ongoing annual expenses over one time capital investments?

What is the ROI of increasing border patrol agents?

Have you studied this issue?

Have you spoken to any CBP agents/officers?

Why are you so sure a wall won't work?

As a deterrent alone a wall would have a significant impact on the number of attempted illegal border crossings.

How would thousands of people in a caravan cross the border if there was a large barrier protecting the entire border?

a wall doesn't deter anyone unless it is guarded. heck if you were ever a teen you have probably hopped a fence or two in your life time. and this has a much better reward on the other side.

 

[volfanjustin]

I just saw a quote from Teddy Roosevelt making this same point 100 years ago. We've had 4-5 generations of immigration to observe since Teddy said it...can you name any group that isn't totally assimilated by the 2nd or 3rd generation. Who are these "many" that don't assimilate?

I hear people who can't speak a word of English all the time, I have seen Mexican flags waving at protests. If your country is so bad you leave it to come here to take advantage of our greatness then embrace it and become Americans.

 

[tumscalcium]

I just saw a quote from Teddy Roosevelt making this same point 100 years ago. We've had 4-5 generations of immigration to observe since Teddy said it...can you name any group that isn't totally assimilated by the 2nd or 3rd generation. Who are these "many" that don't assimilate?

What do you consider “assimilated”?

 

[n_huffhines]

So you're for increasing ongoing annual expenses over one time capital investments?

What is the ROI of increasing border patrol agents?

Have you studied this issue?

Have you spoken to any CBP agents/officers?

Why are you so sure a wall won't work?

As a deterrent alone a wall would have a significant impact on the number of attempted illegal border crossings.

How would thousands of people in a caravan cross the border if there was a large barrier protecting the entire border?

First of all, the onus is on people proposing that we spend money. I don't care if you don't want to give CBP any money. I can live with that. I'm saying I prefer we pay people than build a monument to stupidity. Why are you so sure a $5.7B wall will give us over $5.7B worth of value? Also, it's not going to cost just $5.7B, and if it does, it really won't do anything.

So if I talked to the CBP union, you don't think they'd say "yeah, put the money into agents, not a wall." LOL

Schedule the one time capital investment into ongoing annual expenses. I'm certainly not saying give them $5.7B every year.

 

[Septic]

Sorry, 41 million was worldwide number, not PP.

Regardless it's just wrong. It's birth control by abortion.

This is where your argument goes off the rails, you're attempting to apply your subjective moral authority to what you personally believe as a matter of public policy.

Ironic that you hold this position and then proceed to trample others moral beliefs that a wall is wrong.

I think this is referred to as cognitive dissonance.

 

[n_huffhines]

I hear people who can't speak a word of English all the time, I have seen Mexican flags waving at protests. If your country is so bad you leave it to come here to take advantage of our greatness then embrace it and become Americans.

Why is the language barrier of a few of them such a problem for you?

Maintaining Mexican pride doesn't mean one hasn't assimilated. There were 4th+ generation Irish Americans who were waving Irish flags at Conor McGregor fights (when he's fighting Americans). It doesn't mean they haven't assimilated.

Protesting is American. Maintaining your heritage is part of being American.

 

[volfanjustin]

Why is the language barrier of a few of them such a problem for you?

Maintaining Mexican pride doesn't mean one hasn't assimilated. There were 4th+ generation Irish Americans who were waving Irish flags at Conor McGregor fights (when he's fighting Americans). It doesn't mean they haven't assimilated.

Protesting is American. Maintaining your heritage is part of being American.

We just have to disagree here. When I have customers or potential customers walk in to the company I work for and I greet them and they look at me like I am out of place then yes I do have a problem with that.

Why not embrace the country they have come to and embrace our culture and our language?