The Saban Effect (Long, sorry, I'm bored at work)

[feathersax]

I'm a nurse, and the past few nights have been full of COVID and emergencies and other things that just suck up my time. So, tonight, I was very grateful to just sit and think on the state of our program, and vomit my thoughts on Pruitt. Thanks for reading.

Thanks for being on the front line of health care. Our daughter-in-law is a nurse. Heroes!

 

[nlovu]

I'm curious as to how good LSU would have been had Saban stayed there. I dare say he would have had a 50 game win-streak at some point there.

Saban never had back to back 10 win seasons at LSU.

 

[1972 Grad]

I think that I can state something and be 100% accurate: Nick Saban has forever changed the expectations of success in college football. As we talk about potential coaching changes and other shifts, a lot of it is because we are constantly chasing the success that Saban has had at Alabama.

When Alabama hired Saban in 2007:

Tennessee had Fulmer as coach, and he was in his 15th year. Tennessee has since had Kiffin, Dooley, Jones, and Pruitt. They are a combined 0-13 against Saban since that time.

Vanderbilt had Bobby Johnson as coach, and he was in his 6th season there. He would go on to coach there for 9 years. Vanderbilt has since had James Franklin and Derek Mason, and now Lea. They are a combined 0-3 against Saban, scoring only 10 points total in those 3 meetings.

Arkansas had Houston Nutt as coach. He coached at Arkansas for a total of 10 years, and then an additional 4 at Ole Miss. Since then, Arkansas has had Bobby Petrino, Bret Bielema, Chad Morris, and Sam Pittman. They are a combined 0-14 against Saban at Alabama.

Ole Miss had Ed Orgeron as coach, who coached there for 3 years. They then had Houston Nutt, then Hugh Freeze, then Matt Luke, and now Lane Kiffin. Those coaches have all combined for 2-12 against Saban (the two wins coming by Hugh Freeze by a combined 12 points).

Mississippi State had Sylvester Croom, who was there for 5 years total. Then they had Dan Mullen, Joe Moorhead, and Mike Leach. Those coaches are a combined 1-13 against Saban at Alabama (Croom beat him in 2007).

Georgia of course had Mark Richt, who coached 15 years at Georgia. Then they had Kirby. They are 1-6 against Saban, with Richt beating him in 2007.

South Carolina had Steve Spurrier, and then Will Muschamp (and now Shane Beamer). Those 2 have only faced Saban 3 times, and have a record of 1-2 against him (Spurrier getting the one win in 2010)

LSU had Les Miles, who was there for 12 years, and then of course Orgeron took over. LSU is 4-11 against Saban, with Les Miles having 3 victories over him, and Orgeron having the 1 that came last year.

Auburn had Tommy Tuberville, who was there for 10 years, and then had Gene Chizik, and Gus Malzahn. The Auburn coaches are a combined 5-9 against Saban. 3 of those came from Malzahn, and 2 of them from Chizik.

What's my point with all of that?

Saban drastically changed the SEC. Specifically in the patience that we have to produce results.

You go from tenures of Fulmer (15 years), Richt (15 years), Miles (12 years), Nutt (10 years at Arkansas), Tuberville (10 years), to what we have today.

Eli Drinkwitz - Year 1
Sam Pittman - Year 1
Derek Mason - got 7 years before canned.
Will Muschamp - got 4 years at Florida, and was fired in year 5 at South Carolina
Jeremy Pruitt - Year 3
Lane Kiffin - Year 1
Gus Malzahn - got 8 years before fired.
Mark Stoops - Year 8
Mike Leach - Year 1
Jimbo Fisher - Year 3
Dan Mullen - Year 3 at Florida
Kirby Smart - Year 5 at Georgia
Ed Orgeron - Year 5 at LSU
Nick Saban - Year 14 at Alabama

Since Nick Saban has entered the SEC, every single team has changed coaches at least once. Some twice, some three times, and if we fire Pruitt, we will be the first team to fire coaches 5 times in that period. The longest tenured SEC coach outside of Saban is now Mark Stoops at Kentucky.

I say all of this to just wonder: Are we reacting so strongly to the "dynasty" that is Alabama football right now, that we are creating a damaging culture to college football?

Since 2007, 15 coaches have beaten Saban. Of those 15, only 5 of them currently hold coaching positions (Whittingham, Freeze, Swinney, Orgeron, and Miles). Sumlin and Malzahn just got fired. Meyer, Richt, Spurrier, Stoops, Croom, Bowden, Chizik, and Weatherbie are all "retired' or otherwise not coaching.

Since 2007, here are the only coaches to make the BCS Championship Game/ College Football Playoffs:
Jim Tressel (not coaching)
Les Miles (Kansas)
Urban Meyer (not coaching)
Bob Stoops (not coaching)
Mack Brown (North Carolina)
Chip Kelly (UCLA)
Brian Kelly (Notre Dame)
Jimbo Fisher (Texas A&M)
Gus Malzahn (not coaching)
Mark Helfrich (not coaching)
Dabo Swinney (Clemson)
Mark Dantonio (Michigan State)
Chris Petersen (not coaching)
Ed Orgeron (LSU)

That's it. 14 plus Saban. 6 of those 15 are unemployed. Mack Brown was unemployed for a while, and has had moderate success at North Carolina. Chip Kelly has been a large disappointment at UCLA, having a 10-20 record. Helfrich is completely unemployed. Petersen is in administration now, as is Tressel.

My point is this.

We cannot compare ourselves to Alabama. Nor do we need to think that we can or will create anything close to what Saban has created at Alabama. I'm not writing this to say "Oh man, how great they are."

But I'm writing it to say, we have to be realistic about what success *normally* is. A highly successful coach might make the playoffs 2 times, maybe 3 during his career. To have a coach make the championship game 7 times is a once in a lifetime thing.

I'm also not saying this to excuse Pruitt. I do believe that the head coach of Tennessee is measured against what they do versus Georgia, Florida, and Alabama. I recognize fully that there is not anyone we can hire that will close in on Alabama (even the two most successful coaches in Malzahn and Miles against Bama still have losing records against him). But I do believe that we need a coach who HAS to close the gap against Florida and Georgia, and Pruitt thus far, has not done that. Could he if given more time? Well, today's Signing Day didn't give me much confidence in that.

So, what am I trying to say in this post? We have to realize that we are not in a "normal" football world. Never again will we have another coach that seemingly breathes out #1 recruiting classes, and that it's almost an automatic trip to the playoffs every year. Never again will there be a cyborg like Saban. He will retire as the greatest. If he ever retires. Dude may coach to be age 115, and then die after his 19th National Championship. You can hate his guts and still recognize that he has truly accomplished an insane amount in his career.

I think we have to recognize our place and time in history, and say that our goal right now is to just be competitive in the East. And to do that, is its own challenge. You can see how incredibly difficult it is to find a National Championship caliber coach. Or even how hard it is to find a coach that can make it to the playoffs. They are out there, but they're typically not unproven. And they're typically not "Hey, I was a coordinator this time last year, and now I'm a head coach!"

But I do believe because of the strength of our conference, and our dedication to excellence, if we can find a coach who can keep us competitive and win against Florida and Georgia (the only two teams that will ever matter in the East), then we can once again be relevant in the hunt for National Championships. I don't see anyone overtaking Saban until he is ready to step down, but once he is, the winner of the SEC will always be considered for a National Championship. Winning the East puts us in that conversation.

But if we are playing the long game, step number one has to be to beat Florida and Georgia. Which means, these things have to be our priorities:

1) We have to lock down our state. The state of Tennessee, simply by sheer numbers will never compare to the state of Georgia and Florida in talent. However, our state has seen a massive influx of talent in the past 5 years or so, due mainly to the new industry that has flooded specifically the Nashville and Memphis area. Tennessee does not have to compete with another instate school (Vandy...yeah right), however, this year, the Top 7 players in the state of Tennessee went elsewhere. You cannot win when your top talent is going to Clemson, Alabama, Georgia, or Ole Miss. You have to keep your in-state kids a priority, even if you don't believe they're a great fit. One thing Butch got right is that you have to promote the "brand" of Tennessee football. Pruitt did a good job of this last year, but failed miserably this year. We cannot let players like Ty Simpson and Jordan James get out of state and wind up somewhere else. We have to build and keep those relationship with Tennessee High Schools and coaches.

2) We have to focus on development. Tennessee has the ability to get the 5* players, but that is a chicken/egg argument. I believe right now, whether Pruitt is the coach next year, or some other coach, the starting point has to be the development of players. This was a glaring weakness under Butch, and it was quite simply a mark of utter stupidity this year with Pruitt. While COVID messed a lot of things up, there was no reason why Shrout at least didn't play more reps than he did, nor that Bailey wasn't at least given more before he was. Development has to continually happen, and it has to happen at every position. I believe that you have to prove you can win before you'll get the 5* players that truly change a program. This is why I've always loved coaches like Chris Petersen and Gary Patterson. They seem to always win without the superstar type players. They get players who buy in and work hard, and they develop them, and win games. 5* Players only make what you've already been doing easier and more effective.

3) We have to commit to stability and progress over instant success. We are not going to hire someone who is going to take this roster and win 15 games with it overnight. But I believe that if the University will find someone who will show continual progress and development, while promoting a positive culture within the program, then we will be moving in the right direction. I believe that if you would have asked many at the beginning of this year, Pruitt would have seemingly checked those boxes. Our defense was playing well, and we were on that win streak. Somehow, that has dropped off. It seems like our secondary has regressed, along with the rest of our defense, and we have an Offensive line that has not performed like we all expected. Again, COVID or not, it is what it is. I don't think that many have seen the progress we would like to have seen (including me) in many ways. But I also have to wonder if Pruitt will get another year due to the complications of the year. Either way, the football program is going to have to be rebuilt at a pace that is going to be too slow for many. That doesn't mean that we should accept losing seasons. It should mean that it is obvious to everyone that every year we are getting closer. I felt that way from Pruitt's year 1 to year 2. However, I have not felt any closer at all after this year.

Sorry for ranting. I am bored at work, and just had a lot of thoughts about where this program, and where the SEC is as a whole. I do not know whether or not Pruitt will be fired or retained. I don't know whether or not he will turn it around. The general feel that I get is that Pruitt is a guy who being a Head Coach sounded good to....until that first loss. Pruitt had been at successful programs his entire career. Hoover High School, then Alabama, then Florida State their NC year, then Georgia, then Bama again. The guy honestly has not had to deal with losing very much in his coaching career. He hasn't had to deal with the media very much outside of "Jeremy, your defense is amazing, tell us about all of the 5* NFL draft picks you have this year." He hasn't had to fight for recruits with a school that hasn't won a conference championship in over 10 years until now. He hasn't had to deal with the politics that a head coach deals with. He hasn't had to worry about radio shows, television appearances, fundraisers. And I just don't think that the Head Coaching life is what he thought it would be. Perhaps if he had been at a lower program first, it would be different, and he would have had the ability to grow into that role. But that's not what happened.

I think he loves his players, and he loves coaching. I think it's just the other things have gotten to be too much for him. And unfortunately, there's 3 options. He can either turn it around, and start winning (which would require a lot of humility and character change from him, including trusting his OC to do what needs to be done, or firing his OL coach). He can resign, which he won't do, because that would be giving up on his players. Or, he can shut down and just wait to be inevitably fired, and get his buyout, and try to do so with as much self-proclaimed integrity and dignity as possible. Then, I'm sure he would easily find another DC position at a SEC or ACC school. And would probably be just fine doing that.

I hate seeing our school like this, but I also hate the fact that despite now 4 coaches since Fulmer, we have yet to find anyone who just seems to genuinely love building a program and doing the hard work of rebuilding a program. Hopefully we get the next one right, and can start competing for the East sooner rather than later.

Again, sorry for the long post. I love the Vols. I sometimes wish I could cheer for someone else, but I'm stuck here for better or for worse.

tl;dr, but I read it anyway. Good post.

 

[MWAVolfan]

I didn't read all your post (sorry) but I think I get the gist.

Here's the thing.....

You don't have to be Saban, but you do at least have to beat him sometimes if you are supposed to be one of his primary rivals. Wonder why Tennessee is about to fire it's 5th coach since Saban? Because NONE OF THEM beat Saban..... EVER.

Auburn beat Saban
LSU beat Saban
Ole Miss beat Saban
MSU beat Saban
TAMU beat Saban
South Carolina beat Saban
Florida beat Saban
Georgia beat Saban

There's a glaring omission from that list. The last coach at Tennessee with a long tenure also beat Alabama the majority of times they played.

Tennessee, for one isn't chasing perfection. We are chasing not being total sh!t.

Also, who I wonder was the team that fired three head coaches in a row before they hired Saban? hmmmmmmmm

 

[vol66]

Thanks for the thoughtful analysis OP and for your hard work on the frontlines.

The standard of what a UT coach does versus Bama, UGA and UF now seems more like a lofty goal. These last 3 hires had trouble in November, IMO that’s the immediate issue. If ya can’t take care of OOC cupcakes, VU, Mizzou and UK, them other 3 don’t matter.

 

[dcm3w]

A lot of thought but I don't agree with some of it. I don't think Saban changed anything with regard to how coaches are fired or expectations placed upon them. Nobody is going to fire their head coach for losing to Saban with the exception of Auburn possibly. If Derek Dooley/Butch Jones was going 10-2 every year but not beating Bama often, I think he'd probably still be our head coach. I don't think any school is actually expecting their program to have Saban like success or making coaching changes because they don't. It's not like you see a bunch of schools winning 60-70% of their games and firing their coaches because they didn't win 2 Natl Champ. in 3 years.

Most of those guys that got fired were just crappy head coaches that had losing records. And some, like Freeze, didn't get fired because Ole Miss raised their expectations of winning. It's because he had some controversy.

But there are examples of coaches being fired for not being successful enough prior to Saban. That is not unique to the Saban at Alabama era. Ray Goff was 46-34-1. Fired. Jim Donnan was 40-19 at Georgia. Fired. Alabama fired Mike Dubose and Mike Shula. Both were .500 coaches that didn't win enough (before the vacated wins). Florida fired Ron Zook. 23-14 record in three years with an SEC Championship game appearance.

There might be a few schools that have winning expectations and have made changes because they weren't winning enough, but that's not due to Saban's success. For the most part I don't expect to see middle tier SEC schools firing their coaches because they aren't going 10-2 and going to the SEC Championship every other year.

Saban's success is an anomaly. Once in a generation type winning coach. Nobody should measure their success against his.

Saban single handedly changed CFB

 

[PandamoniumReigns]

I didn't read all your post (sorry) but I think I get the gist.

Here's the thing.....

You don't have to be Saban, but you do at least have to beat him sometimes if you are supposed to be one of his primary rivals. Wonder why Tennessee is about to fire it's 5th coach since Saban? Because NONE OF THEM beat Saban..... EVER.

Auburn beat Saban
LSU beat Saban
Ole Miss beat Saban
MSU beat Saban
TAMU beat Saban
South Carolina beat Saban
Florida beat Saban
Georgia beat Saban

There's a glaring omission from that list. The last coach at Tennessee with a long tenure also beat Alabama the majority of times they played.

Tennessee, for one isn't chasing perfection. We are chasing not being total sh!t.

Also, who I wonder was the team that fired three head coaches in a row before they hired Saban? hmmmmmmmm

For the record...Tennessee did beat Saban. He was at LSU.

I know what you mean though

 

[Firebirdparts]

I didn't read all your post (sorry) but I think I get the gist.

Okay, but just don't start thinking the opposite is true. The guys who beat Saban are all out of the conference now except Orgeron, and you can't expect him to be gone in just one year. Nobody stays, whether they beat him or not.

 

[dcm3w]

Where Saban separates himself from the rest is that he can lose majority of his talent on either or both sides of the ball and still be in the top 5 every year. Swinney is starting to catch up but Saban has the edge in length of time

 

[TheFlash1971]

I think that I can state something and be 100% accurate: Nick Saban has forever changed the expectations of success in college football. As we talk about potential coaching changes and other shifts, a lot of it is because we are constantly chasing the success that Saban has had at Alabama.

When Alabama hired Saban in 2007:

Tennessee had Fulmer as coach, and he was in his 15th year. Tennessee has since had Kiffin, Dooley, Jones, and Pruitt. They are a combined 0-13 against Saban since that time.

Vanderbilt had Bobby Johnson as coach, and he was in his 6th season there. He would go on to coach there for 9 years. Vanderbilt has since had James Franklin and Derek Mason, and now Lea. They are a combined 0-3 against Saban, scoring only 10 points total in those 3 meetings.

Arkansas had Houston Nutt as coach. He coached at Arkansas for a total of 10 years, and then an additional 4 at Ole Miss. Since then, Arkansas has had Bobby Petrino, Bret Bielema, Chad Morris, and Sam Pittman. They are a combined 0-14 against Saban at Alabama.

Ole Miss had Ed Orgeron as coach, who coached there for 3 years. They then had Houston Nutt, then Hugh Freeze, then Matt Luke, and now Lane Kiffin. Those coaches have all combined for 2-12 against Saban (the two wins coming by Hugh Freeze by a combined 12 points).

Mississippi State had Sylvester Croom, who was there for 5 years total. Then they had Dan Mullen, Joe Moorhead, and Mike Leach. Those coaches are a combined 1-13 against Saban at Alabama (Croom beat him in 2007).

Georgia of course had Mark Richt, who coached 15 years at Georgia. Then they had Kirby. They are 1-6 against Saban, with Richt beating him in 2007.

South Carolina had Steve Spurrier, and then Will Muschamp (and now Shane Beamer). Those 2 have only faced Saban 3 times, and have a record of 1-2 against him (Spurrier getting the one win in 2010)

LSU had Les Miles, who was there for 12 years, and then of course Orgeron took over. LSU is 4-11 against Saban, with Les Miles having 3 victories over him, and Orgeron having the 1 that came last year.

Auburn had Tommy Tuberville, who was there for 10 years, and then had Gene Chizik, and Gus Malzahn. The Auburn coaches are a combined 5-9 against Saban. 3 of those came from Malzahn, and 2 of them from Chizik.

What's my point with all of that?

Saban drastically changed the SEC. Specifically in the patience that we have to produce results.

You go from tenures of Fulmer (15 years), Richt (15 years), Miles (12 years), Nutt (10 years at Arkansas), Tuberville (10 years), to what we have today.

Eli Drinkwitz - Year 1
Sam Pittman - Year 1
Derek Mason - got 7 years before canned.
Will Muschamp - got 4 years at Florida, and was fired in year 5 at South Carolina
Jeremy Pruitt - Year 3
Lane Kiffin - Year 1
Gus Malzahn - got 8 years before fired.
Mark Stoops - Year 8
Mike Leach - Year 1
Jimbo Fisher - Year 3
Dan Mullen - Year 3 at Florida
Kirby Smart - Year 5 at Georgia
Ed Orgeron - Year 5 at LSU
Nick Saban - Year 14 at Alabama

Since Nick Saban has entered the SEC, every single team has changed coaches at least once. Some twice, some three times, and if we fire Pruitt, we will be the first team to fire coaches 5 times in that period. The longest tenured SEC coach outside of Saban is now Mark Stoops at Kentucky.

I say all of this to just wonder: Are we reacting so strongly to the "dynasty" that is Alabama football right now, that we are creating a damaging culture to college football?

Since 2007, 15 coaches have beaten Saban. Of those 15, only 5 of them currently hold coaching positions (Whittingham, Freeze, Swinney, Orgeron, and Miles). Sumlin and Malzahn just got fired. Meyer, Richt, Spurrier, Stoops, Croom, Bowden, Chizik, and Weatherbie are all "retired' or otherwise not coaching.

Since 2007, here are the only coaches to make the BCS Championship Game/ College Football Playoffs:
Jim Tressel (not coaching)
Les Miles (Kansas)
Urban Meyer (not coaching)
Bob Stoops (not coaching)
Mack Brown (North Carolina)
Chip Kelly (UCLA)
Brian Kelly (Notre Dame)
Jimbo Fisher (Texas A&M)
Gus Malzahn (not coaching)
Mark Helfrich (not coaching)
Dabo Swinney (Clemson)
Mark Dantonio (Michigan State)
Chris Petersen (not coaching)
Ed Orgeron (LSU)

That's it. 14 plus Saban. 6 of those 15 are unemployed. Mack Brown was unemployed for a while, and has had moderate success at North Carolina. Chip Kelly has been a large disappointment at UCLA, having a 10-20 record. Helfrich is completely unemployed. Petersen is in administration now, as is Tressel.

My point is this.

We cannot compare ourselves to Alabama. Nor do we need to think that we can or will create anything close to what Saban has created at Alabama. I'm not writing this to say "Oh man, how great they are."

But I'm writing it to say, we have to be realistic about what success *normally* is. A highly successful coach might make the playoffs 2 times, maybe 3 during his career. To have a coach make the championship game 7 times is a once in a lifetime thing.

I'm also not saying this to excuse Pruitt. I do believe that the head coach of Tennessee is measured against what they do versus Georgia, Florida, and Alabama. I recognize fully that there is not anyone we can hire that will close in on Alabama (even the two most successful coaches in Malzahn and Miles against Bama still have losing records against him). But I do believe that we need a coach who HAS to close the gap against Florida and Georgia, and Pruitt thus far, has not done that. Could he if given more time? Well, today's Signing Day didn't give me much confidence in that.

So, what am I trying to say in this post? We have to realize that we are not in a "normal" football world. Never again will we have another coach that seemingly breathes out #1 recruiting classes, and that it's almost an automatic trip to the playoffs every year. Never again will there be a cyborg like Saban. He will retire as the greatest. If he ever retires. Dude may coach to be age 115, and then die after his 19th National Championship. You can hate his guts and still recognize that he has truly accomplished an insane amount in his career.

I think we have to recognize our place and time in history, and say that our goal right now is to just be competitive in the East. And to do that, is its own challenge. You can see how incredibly difficult it is to find a National Championship caliber coach. Or even how hard it is to find a coach that can make it to the playoffs. They are out there, but they're typically not unproven. And they're typically not "Hey, I was a coordinator this time last year, and now I'm a head coach!"

But I do believe because of the strength of our conference, and our dedication to excellence, if we can find a coach who can keep us competitive and win against Florida and Georgia (the only two teams that will ever matter in the East), then we can once again be relevant in the hunt for National Championships. I don't see anyone overtaking Saban until he is ready to step down, but once he is, the winner of the SEC will always be considered for a National Championship. Winning the East puts us in that conversation.

But if we are playing the long game, step number one has to be to beat Florida and Georgia. Which means, these things have to be our priorities:

1) We have to lock down our state. The state of Tennessee, simply by sheer numbers will never compare to the state of Georgia and Florida in talent. However, our state has seen a massive influx of talent in the past 5 years or so, due mainly to the new industry that has flooded specifically the Nashville and Memphis area. Tennessee does not have to compete with another instate school (Vandy...yeah right), however, this year, the Top 7 players in the state of Tennessee went elsewhere. You cannot win when your top talent is going to Clemson, Alabama, Georgia, or Ole Miss. You have to keep your in-state kids a priority, even if you don't believe they're a great fit. One thing Butch got right is that you have to promote the "brand" of Tennessee football. Pruitt did a good job of this last year, but failed miserably this year. We cannot let players like Ty Simpson and Jordan James get out of state and wind up somewhere else. We have to build and keep those relationship with Tennessee High Schools and coaches.

2) We have to focus on development. Tennessee has the ability to get the 5* players, but that is a chicken/egg argument. I believe right now, whether Pruitt is the coach next year, or some other coach, the starting point has to be the development of players. This was a glaring weakness under Butch, and it was quite simply a mark of utter stupidity this year with Pruitt. While COVID messed a lot of things up, there was no reason why Shrout at least didn't play more reps than he did, nor that Bailey wasn't at least given more before he was. Development has to continually happen, and it has to happen at every position. I believe that you have to prove you can win before you'll get the 5* players that truly change a program. This is why I've always loved coaches like Chris Petersen and Gary Patterson. They seem to always win without the superstar type players. They get players who buy in and work hard, and they develop them, and win games. 5* Players only make what you've already been doing easier and more effective.

3) We have to commit to stability and progress over instant success. We are not going to hire someone who is going to take this roster and win 15 games with it overnight. But I believe that if the University will find someone who will show continual progress and development, while promoting a positive culture within the program, then we will be moving in the right direction. I believe that if you would have asked many at the beginning of this year, Pruitt would have seemingly checked those boxes. Our defense was playing well, and we were on that win streak. Somehow, that has dropped off. It seems like our secondary has regressed, along with the rest of our defense, and we have an Offensive line that has not performed like we all expected. Again, COVID or not, it is what it is. I don't think that many have seen the progress we would like to have seen (including me) in many ways. But I also have to wonder if Pruitt will get another year due to the complications of the year. Either way, the football program is going to have to be rebuilt at a pace that is going to be too slow for many. That doesn't mean that we should accept losing seasons. It should mean that it is obvious to everyone that every year we are getting closer. I felt that way from Pruitt's year 1 to year 2. However, I have not felt any closer at all after this year.

Sorry for ranting. I am bored at work, and just had a lot of thoughts about where this program, and where the SEC is as a whole. I do not know whether or not Pruitt will be fired or retained. I don't know whether or not he will turn it around. The general feel that I get is that Pruitt is a guy who being a Head Coach sounded good to....until that first loss. Pruitt had been at successful programs his entire career. Hoover High School, then Alabama, then Florida State their NC year, then Georgia, then Bama again. The guy honestly has not had to deal with losing very much in his coaching career. He hasn't had to deal with the media very much outside of "Jeremy, your defense is amazing, tell us about all of the 5* NFL draft picks you have this year." He hasn't had to fight for recruits with a school that hasn't won a conference championship in over 10 years until now. He hasn't had to deal with the politics that a head coach deals with. He hasn't had to worry about radio shows, television appearances, fundraisers. And I just don't think that the Head Coaching life is what he thought it would be. Perhaps if he had been at a lower program first, it would be different, and he would have had the ability to grow into that role. But that's not what happened.

I think he loves his players, and he loves coaching. I think it's just the other things have gotten to be too much for him. And unfortunately, there's 3 options. He can either turn it around, and start winning (which would require a lot of humility and character change from him, including trusting his OC to do what needs to be done, or firing his OL coach). He can resign, which he won't do, because that would be giving up on his players. Or, he can shut down and just wait to be inevitably fired, and get his buyout, and try to do so with as much self-proclaimed integrity and dignity as possible. Then, I'm sure he would easily find another DC position at a SEC or ACC school. And would probably be just fine doing that.

I hate seeing our school like this, but I also hate the fact that despite now 4 coaches since Fulmer, we have yet to find anyone who just seems to genuinely love building a program and doing the hard work of rebuilding a program. Hopefully we get the next one right, and can start competing for the East sooner rather than later.

Again, sorry for the long post. I love the Vols. I sometimes wish I could cheer for someone else, but I'm stuck here for better or for worse.

Just Fire Pruitt! Sums up your 5 paragraphs.

 

[Nasavol]

Lol, once in a lifetime? Check one Dabo out and what he has built in a small town in SC. I believe it was Lombardi who said “expect perfection, you just might hit excellence” Don’t set your bar for mediocrity, you can see where that gets you.

 

[MWAVolfan]

Okay, but just don't start thinking the opposite is true. The guys who beat Saban are all out of the conference now except Orgeron, and you can't expect him to be gone in just one year. Nobody stays, whether they beat him or not.

I just dont think it can be explained as simply "everybody trying to be like Saban". Here's what I think really happened....

What Saban, along with Urban Meyer and Les Miles did was dramatically raise the profile of the SEC on the national scene. During the decade of the 00s the SEC went from being a regional powerhouse to the unquestioned premier football conference in college football. Being a part of nearly every national championship game in 15 years.

What this meant is that college coaches saw the big $$$$$ to be made in the SEC and coaching salaries went WAY up and schools like Ole Miss and Vanderbilt even had to begin paying 3-4 million + for their head coaches.

The bigger the investment made, the less tolerance there was for not getting a return on that investment and so coaches don't get more than 3-5 years to establish a winning program because these schools don't want to pay that much money if they aren't seeing the revenues that come from winning on the biggest stages.

So what really happened is that Saban, Meyer and Miles raised the water level for all SEC schools whether they liked it or not because the financial stakes were now higher across the board to the point that you can't afford to not win, or at least be regularly competitive.

 

[TheDeeble]

Saban single handedly changed CFB

I agree he's changed the game. I disagree with OPs statement that coaches are being fired for not having Saban like success.

I don't even know why Ole Miss, Vandy, Miss St, Arkansas, or South Carolina are included in that as proof of the statement. None of those schools have or will fire their coach because they didn't win like Saban.

Georgia has fired coaches for not winning enough. But not because they didn't win 2 Natl Champs in 4 years. And it was done before Saban coached in the SEC.

The examples listed of coaching turnover are normal turnover. There's nothing abnormal or unique about it.

Tennessee specifically: None of the coaches hired since Fulmer was fired have been fired or will be fired because they didn't have Saban like success. They have been/will be fired because they weren't even competitive in the SEC.

 

[TNHopeful505]

So you typed this at work? Glad you don't work for me.

Lol. I typed this over about 5 hours guys. Not straight, just in the moments I had lulls. Some nights are better than other, depending on how many Xanax's I give out

 

[MAUSERWERKE]

I think that I can state something and be 100% accurate: Nick Saban has forever changed the expectations of success in college football. As we talk about potential coaching changes and other shifts, a lot of it is because we are constantly chasing the success that Saban has had at Alabama.

When Alabama hired Saban in 2007:

Tennessee had Fulmer as coach, and he was in his 15th year. Tennessee has since had Kiffin, Dooley, Jones, and Pruitt. They are a combined 0-13 against Saban since that time.

Vanderbilt had Bobby Johnson as coach, and he was in his 6th season there. He would go on to coach there for 9 years. Vanderbilt has since had James Franklin and Derek Mason, and now Lea. They are a combined 0-3 against Saban, scoring only 10 points total in those 3 meetings.

Arkansas had Houston Nutt as coach. He coached at Arkansas for a total of 10 years, and then an additional 4 at Ole Miss. Since then, Arkansas has had Bobby Petrino, Bret Bielema, Chad Morris, and Sam Pittman. They are a combined 0-14 against Saban at Alabama.

Ole Miss had Ed Orgeron as coach, who coached there for 3 years. They then had Houston Nutt, then Hugh Freeze, then Matt Luke, and now Lane Kiffin. Those coaches have all combined for 2-12 against Saban (the two wins coming by Hugh Freeze by a combined 12 points).

Mississippi State had Sylvester Croom, who was there for 5 years total. Then they had Dan Mullen, Joe Moorhead, and Mike Leach. Those coaches are a combined 1-13 against Saban at Alabama (Croom beat him in 2007).

Georgia of course had Mark Richt, who coached 15 years at Georgia. Then they had Kirby. They are 1-6 against Saban, with Richt beating him in 2007.

South Carolina had Steve Spurrier, and then Will Muschamp (and now Shane Beamer). Those 2 have only faced Saban 3 times, and have a record of 1-2 against him (Spurrier getting the one win in 2010)

LSU had Les Miles, who was there for 12 years, and then of course Orgeron took over. LSU is 4-11 against Saban, with Les Miles having 3 victories over him, and Orgeron having the 1 that came last year.

Auburn had Tommy Tuberville, who was there for 10 years, and then had Gene Chizik, and Gus Malzahn. The Auburn coaches are a combined 5-9 against Saban. 3 of those came from Malzahn, and 2 of them from Chizik.

What's my point with all of that?

Saban drastically changed the SEC. Specifically in the patience that we have to produce results.

You go from tenures of Fulmer (15 years), Richt (15 years), Miles (12 years), Nutt (10 years at Arkansas), Tuberville (10 years), to what we have today.

Eli Drinkwitz - Year 1
Sam Pittman - Year 1
Derek Mason - got 7 years before canned.
Will Muschamp - got 4 years at Florida, and was fired in year 5 at South Carolina
Jeremy Pruitt - Year 3
Lane Kiffin - Year 1
Gus Malzahn - got 8 years before fired.
Mark Stoops - Year 8
Mike Leach - Year 1
Jimbo Fisher - Year 3
Dan Mullen - Year 3 at Florida
Kirby Smart - Year 5 at Georgia
Ed Orgeron - Year 5 at LSU
Nick Saban - Year 14 at Alabama

Since Nick Saban has entered the SEC, every single team has changed coaches at least once. Some twice, some three times, and if we fire Pruitt, we will be the first team to fire coaches 5 times in that period. The longest tenured SEC coach outside of Saban is now Mark Stoops at Kentucky.

I say all of this to just wonder: Are we reacting so strongly to the "dynasty" that is Alabama football right now, that we are creating a damaging culture to college football?

Since 2007, 15 coaches have beaten Saban. Of those 15, only 5 of them currently hold coaching positions (Whittingham, Freeze, Swinney, Orgeron, and Miles). Sumlin and Malzahn just got fired. Meyer, Richt, Spurrier, Stoops, Croom, Bowden, Chizik, and Weatherbie are all "retired' or otherwise not coaching.

Since 2007, here are the only coaches to make the BCS Championship Game/ College Football Playoffs:
Jim Tressel (not coaching)
Les Miles (Kansas)
Urban Meyer (not coaching)
Bob Stoops (not coaching)
Mack Brown (North Carolina)
Chip Kelly (UCLA)
Brian Kelly (Notre Dame)
Jimbo Fisher (Texas A&M)
Gus Malzahn (not coaching)
Mark Helfrich (not coaching)
Dabo Swinney (Clemson)
Mark Dantonio (Michigan State)
Chris Petersen (not coaching)
Ed Orgeron (LSU)

That's it. 14 plus Saban. 6 of those 15 are unemployed. Mack Brown was unemployed for a while, and has had moderate success at North Carolina. Chip Kelly has been a large disappointment at UCLA, having a 10-20 record. Helfrich is completely unemployed. Petersen is in administration now, as is Tressel.

My point is this.

We cannot compare ourselves to Alabama. Nor do we need to think that we can or will create anything close to what Saban has created at Alabama. I'm not writing this to say "Oh man, how great they are."

But I'm writing it to say, we have to be realistic about what success *normally* is. A highly successful coach might make the playoffs 2 times, maybe 3 during his career. To have a coach make the championship game 7 times is a once in a lifetime thing.

I'm also not saying this to excuse Pruitt. I do believe that the head coach of Tennessee is measured against what they do versus Georgia, Florida, and Alabama. I recognize fully that there is not anyone we can hire that will close in on Alabama (even the two most successful coaches in Malzahn and Miles against Bama still have losing records against him). But I do believe that we need a coach who HAS to close the gap against Florida and Georgia, and Pruitt thus far, has not done that. Could he if given more time? Well, today's Signing Day didn't give me much confidence in that.

So, what am I trying to say in this post? We have to realize that we are not in a "normal" football world. Never again will we have another coach that seemingly breathes out #1 recruiting classes, and that it's almost an automatic trip to the playoffs every year. Never again will there be a cyborg like Saban. He will retire as the greatest. If he ever retires. Dude may coach to be age 115, and then die after his 19th National Championship. You can hate his guts and still recognize that he has truly accomplished an insane amount in his career.

I think we have to recognize our place and time in history, and say that our goal right now is to just be competitive in the East. And to do that, is its own challenge. You can see how incredibly difficult it is to find a National Championship caliber coach. Or even how hard it is to find a coach that can make it to the playoffs. They are out there, but they're typically not unproven. And they're typically not "Hey, I was a coordinator this time last year, and now I'm a head coach!"

But I do believe because of the strength of our conference, and our dedication to excellence, if we can find a coach who can keep us competitive and win against Florida and Georgia (the only two teams that will ever matter in the East), then we can once again be relevant in the hunt for National Championships. I don't see anyone overtaking Saban until he is ready to step down, but once he is, the winner of the SEC will always be considered for a National Championship. Winning the East puts us in that conversation.

But if we are playing the long game, step number one has to be to beat Florida and Georgia. Which means, these things have to be our priorities:

1) We have to lock down our state. The state of Tennessee, simply by sheer numbers will never compare to the state of Georgia and Florida in talent. However, our state has seen a massive influx of talent in the past 5 years or so, due mainly to the new industry that has flooded specifically the Nashville and Memphis area. Tennessee does not have to compete with another instate school (Vandy...yeah right), however, this year, the Top 7 players in the state of Tennessee went elsewhere. You cannot win when your top talent is going to Clemson, Alabama, Georgia, or Ole Miss. You have to keep your in-state kids a priority, even if you don't believe they're a great fit. One thing Butch got right is that you have to promote the "brand" of Tennessee football. Pruitt did a good job of this last year, but failed miserably this year. We cannot let players like Ty Simpson and Jordan James get out of state and wind up somewhere else. We have to build and keep those relationship with Tennessee High Schools and coaches.

2) We have to focus on development. Tennessee has the ability to get the 5* players, but that is a chicken/egg argument. I believe right now, whether Pruitt is the coach next year, or some other coach, the starting point has to be the development of players. This was a glaring weakness under Butch, and it was quite simply a mark of utter stupidity this year with Pruitt. While COVID messed a lot of things up, there was no reason why Shrout at least didn't play more reps than he did, nor that Bailey wasn't at least given more before he was. Development has to continually happen, and it has to happen at every position. I believe that you have to prove you can win before you'll get the 5* players that truly change a program. This is why I've always loved coaches like Chris Petersen and Gary Patterson. They seem to always win without the superstar type players. They get players who buy in and work hard, and they develop them, and win games. 5* Players only make what you've already been doing easier and more effective.

3) We have to commit to stability and progress over instant success. We are not going to hire someone who is going to take this roster and win 15 games with it overnight. But I believe that if the University will find someone who will show continual progress and development, while promoting a positive culture within the program, then we will be moving in the right direction. I believe that if you would have asked many at the beginning of this year, Pruitt would have seemingly checked those boxes. Our defense was playing well, and we were on that win streak. Somehow, that has dropped off. It seems like our secondary has regressed, along with the rest of our defense, and we have an Offensive line that has not performed like we all expected. Again, COVID or not, it is what it is. I don't think that many have seen the progress we would like to have seen (including me) in many ways. But I also have to wonder if Pruitt will get another year due to the complications of the year. Either way, the football program is going to have to be rebuilt at a pace that is going to be too slow for many. That doesn't mean that we should accept losing seasons. It should mean that it is obvious to everyone that every year we are getting closer. I felt that way from Pruitt's year 1 to year 2. However, I have not felt any closer at all after this year.

Sorry for ranting. I am bored at work, and just had a lot of thoughts about where this program, and where the SEC is as a whole. I do not know whether or not Pruitt will be fired or retained. I don't know whether or not he will turn it around. The general feel that I get is that Pruitt is a guy who being a Head Coach sounded good to....until that first loss. Pruitt had been at successful programs his entire career. Hoover High School, then Alabama, then Florida State their NC year, then Georgia, then Bama again. The guy honestly has not had to deal with losing very much in his coaching career. He hasn't had to deal with the media very much outside of "Jeremy, your defense is amazing, tell us about all of the 5* NFL draft picks you have this year." He hasn't had to fight for recruits with a school that hasn't won a conference championship in over 10 years until now. He hasn't had to deal with the politics that a head coach deals with. He hasn't had to worry about radio shows, television appearances, fundraisers. And I just don't think that the Head Coaching life is what he thought it would be. Perhaps if he had been at a lower program first, it would be different, and he would have had the ability to grow into that role. But that's not what happened.

I think he loves his players, and he loves coaching. I think it's just the other things have gotten to be too much for him. And unfortunately, there's 3 options. He can either turn it around, and start winning (which would require a lot of humility and character change from him, including trusting his OC to do what needs to be done, or firing his OL coach). He can resign, which he won't do, because that would be giving up on his players. Or, he can shut down and just wait to be inevitably fired, and get his buyout, and try to do so with as much self-proclaimed integrity and dignity as possible. Then, I'm sure he would easily find another DC position at a SEC or ACC school. And would probably be just fine doing that.

I hate seeing our school like this, but I also hate the fact that despite now 4 coaches since Fulmer, we have yet to find anyone who just seems to genuinely love building a program and doing the hard work of rebuilding a program. Hopefully we get the next one right, and can start competing for the East sooner rather than later.

Again, sorry for the long post. I love the Vols. I sometimes wish I could cheer for someone else, but I'm stuck here for better or for worse.

Best post I have ever read on this forum . Ever.

 

[vol66]

Where Saban separates himself from the rest is that he can lose majority of his talent on either or both sides of the ball and still be in the top 5 every year. Swinney is starting to catch up but Saban has the edge in length of time

I think that’s fair, I would include losing coaches on both sides as well. I think what separates Saban is his ability to change and adapt, without sacrificing the expectation. He might hate every second of it, but he does what needs to be done.

 

[dcm3w]

I think that’s fair, I would include losing coaches on both sides as well. I think what separates Saban is his ability to change and adapt, without sacrificing the expectation. He might hate every second of it, but he does what needs to be done.

Agreed.

He was also a huge proponent in killing the no huddle, quick tempo spread. He was an advocate for defense substitutions being allowed against a no huddle due to defensive "player safety".

 

[vol66]

Agreed.

He was also a huge proponent in killing the no huddle, quick tempo spread. He was an advocate for defense substitutions being allowed against a no huddle due to defensive "player safety".

Yep, then he hired Kiffin.

 

[njvols]

I didn't study the whole OP analysis, but good info. To me, the first half (Saban effect), and second half (UT), starts with Great QB play in order to win. You have to be solid most everywhere, but teams who have beaten Saban have generally done so with stellar QB play...Auburn, going back to Cam, Frieze @ OM, Clemson, LSU, etc. To the second half on UT, our trajectory this year would be entirely different if we had good QB play...I think we'd arguably be sitting at a minimum of 5-4 going into the last game if we did. And, if we were at 5-4 range, we wouldn't be losing recruits...would probably be in more fierce competition w/ more instate talent.

 

[Voltildeath1]

I think that I can state something and be 100% accurate: Nick Saban has forever changed the expectations of success in college football. As we talk about potential coaching changes and other shifts, a lot of it is because we are constantly chasing the success that Saban has had at Alabama.

When Alabama hired Saban in 2007:

Tennessee had Fulmer as coach, and he was in his 15th year. Tennessee has since had Kiffin, Dooley, Jones, and Pruitt. They are a combined 0-13 against Saban since that time.

Vanderbilt had Bobby Johnson as coach, and he was in his 6th season there. He would go on to coach there for 9 years. Vanderbilt has since had James Franklin and Derek Mason, and now Lea. They are a combined 0-3 against Saban, scoring only 10 points total in those 3 meetings.

Arkansas had Houston Nutt as coach. He coached at Arkansas for a total of 10 years, and then an additional 4 at Ole Miss. Since then, Arkansas has had Bobby Petrino, Bret Bielema, Chad Morris, and Sam Pittman. They are a combined 0-14 against Saban at Alabama.

Ole Miss had Ed Orgeron as coach, who coached there for 3 years. They then had Houston Nutt, then Hugh Freeze, then Matt Luke, and now Lane Kiffin. Those coaches have all combined for 2-12 against Saban (the two wins coming by Hugh Freeze by a combined 12 points).

Mississippi State had Sylvester Croom, who was there for 5 years total. Then they had Dan Mullen, Joe Moorhead, and Mike Leach. Those coaches are a combined 1-13 against Saban at Alabama (Croom beat him in 2007).

Georgia of course had Mark Richt, who coached 15 years at Georgia. Then they had Kirby. They are 1-6 against Saban, with Richt beating him in 2007.

South Carolina had Steve Spurrier, and then Will Muschamp (and now Shane Beamer). Those 2 have only faced Saban 3 times, and have a record of 1-2 against him (Spurrier getting the one win in 2010)

LSU had Les Miles, who was there for 12 years, and then of course Orgeron took over. LSU is 4-11 against Saban, with Les Miles having 3 victories over him, and Orgeron having the 1 that came last year.

Auburn had Tommy Tuberville, who was there for 10 years, and then had Gene Chizik, and Gus Malzahn. The Auburn coaches are a combined 5-9 against Saban. 3 of those came from Malzahn, and 2 of them from Chizik.

What's my point with all of that?

Saban drastically changed the SEC. Specifically in the patience that we have to produce results.

You go from tenures of Fulmer (15 years), Richt (15 years), Miles (12 years), Nutt (10 years at Arkansas), Tuberville (10 years), to what we have today.

Eli Drinkwitz - Year 1
Sam Pittman - Year 1
Derek Mason - got 7 years before canned.
Will Muschamp - got 4 years at Florida, and was fired in year 5 at South Carolina
Jeremy Pruitt - Year 3
Lane Kiffin - Year 1
Gus Malzahn - got 8 years before fired.
Mark Stoops - Year 8
Mike Leach - Year 1
Jimbo Fisher - Year 3
Dan Mullen - Year 3 at Florida
Kirby Smart - Year 5 at Georgia
Ed Orgeron - Year 5 at LSU
Nick Saban - Year 14 at Alabama

Since Nick Saban has entered the SEC, every single team has changed coaches at least once. Some twice, some three times, and if we fire Pruitt, we will be the first team to fire coaches 5 times in that period. The longest tenured SEC coach outside of Saban is now Mark Stoops at Kentucky.

I say all of this to just wonder: Are we reacting so strongly to the "dynasty" that is Alabama football right now, that we are creating a damaging culture to college football?

Since 2007, 15 coaches have beaten Saban. Of those 15, only 5 of them currently hold coaching positions (Whittingham, Freeze, Swinney, Orgeron, and Miles). Sumlin and Malzahn just got fired. Meyer, Richt, Spurrier, Stoops, Croom, Bowden, Chizik, and Weatherbie are all "retired' or otherwise not coaching.

Since 2007, here are the only coaches to make the BCS Championship Game/ College Football Playoffs:
Jim Tressel (not coaching)
Les Miles (Kansas)
Urban Meyer (not coaching)
Bob Stoops (not coaching)
Mack Brown (North Carolina)
Chip Kelly (UCLA)
Brian Kelly (Notre Dame)
Jimbo Fisher (Texas A&M)
Gus Malzahn (not coaching)
Mark Helfrich (not coaching)
Dabo Swinney (Clemson)
Mark Dantonio (Michigan State)
Chris Petersen (not coaching)
Ed Orgeron (LSU)

That's it. 14 plus Saban. 6 of those 15 are unemployed. Mack Brown was unemployed for a while, and has had moderate success at North Carolina. Chip Kelly has been a large disappointment at UCLA, having a 10-20 record. Helfrich is completely unemployed. Petersen is in administration now, as is Tressel.

My point is this.

We cannot compare ourselves to Alabama. Nor do we need to think that we can or will create anything close to what Saban has created at Alabama. I'm not writing this to say "Oh man, how great they are."

But I'm writing it to say, we have to be realistic about what success *normally* is. A highly successful coach might make the playoffs 2 times, maybe 3 during his career. To have a coach make the championship game 7 times is a once in a lifetime thing.

I'm also not saying this to excuse Pruitt. I do believe that the head coach of Tennessee is measured against what they do versus Georgia, Florida, and Alabama. I recognize fully that there is not anyone we can hire that will close in on Alabama (even the two most successful coaches in Malzahn and Miles against Bama still have losing records against him). But I do believe that we need a coach who HAS to close the gap against Florida and Georgia, and Pruitt thus far, has not done that. Could he if given more time? Well, today's Signing Day didn't give me much confidence in that.

So, what am I trying to say in this post? We have to realize that we are not in a "normal" football world. Never again will we have another coach that seemingly breathes out #1 recruiting classes, and that it's almost an automatic trip to the playoffs every year. Never again will there be a cyborg like Saban. He will retire as the greatest. If he ever retires. Dude may coach to be age 115, and then die after his 19th National Championship. You can hate his guts and still recognize that he has truly accomplished an insane amount in his career.

I think we have to recognize our place and time in history, and say that our goal right now is to just be competitive in the East. And to do that, is its own challenge. You can see how incredibly difficult it is to find a National Championship caliber coach. Or even how hard it is to find a coach that can make it to the playoffs. They are out there, but they're typically not unproven. And they're typically not "Hey, I was a coordinator this time last year, and now I'm a head coach!"

But I do believe because of the strength of our conference, and our dedication to excellence, if we can find a coach who can keep us competitive and win against Florida and Georgia (the only two teams that will ever matter in the East), then we can once again be relevant in the hunt for National Championships. I don't see anyone overtaking Saban until he is ready to step down, but once he is, the winner of the SEC will always be considered for a National Championship. Winning the East puts us in that conversation.

But if we are playing the long game, step number one has to be to beat Florida and Georgia. Which means, these things have to be our priorities:

1) We have to lock down our state. The state of Tennessee, simply by sheer numbers will never compare to the state of Georgia and Florida in talent. However, our state has seen a massive influx of talent in the past 5 years or so, due mainly to the new industry that has flooded specifically the Nashville and Memphis area. Tennessee does not have to compete with another instate school (Vandy...yeah right), however, this year, the Top 7 players in the state of Tennessee went elsewhere. You cannot win when your top talent is going to Clemson, Alabama, Georgia, or Ole Miss. You have to keep your in-state kids a priority, even if you don't believe they're a great fit. One thing Butch got right is that you have to promote the "brand" of Tennessee football. Pruitt did a good job of this last year, but failed miserably this year. We cannot let players like Ty Simpson and Jordan James get out of state and wind up somewhere else. We have to build and keep those relationship with Tennessee High Schools and coaches.

2) We have to focus on development. Tennessee has the ability to get the 5* players, but that is a chicken/egg argument. I believe right now, whether Pruitt is the coach next year, or some other coach, the starting point has to be the development of players. This was a glaring weakness under Butch, and it was quite simply a mark of utter stupidity this year with Pruitt. While COVID messed a lot of things up, there was no reason why Shrout at least didn't play more reps than he did, nor that Bailey wasn't at least given more before he was. Development has to continually happen, and it has to happen at every position. I believe that you have to prove you can win before you'll get the 5* players that truly change a program. This is why I've always loved coaches like Chris Petersen and Gary Patterson. They seem to always win without the superstar type players. They get players who buy in and work hard, and they develop them, and win games. 5* Players only make what you've already been doing easier and more effective.

3) We have to commit to stability and progress over instant success. We are not going to hire someone who is going to take this roster and win 15 games with it overnight. But I believe that if the University will find someone who will show continual progress and development, while promoting a positive culture within the program, then we will be moving in the right direction. I believe that if you would have asked many at the beginning of this year, Pruitt would have seemingly checked those boxes. Our defense was playing well, and we were on that win streak. Somehow, that has dropped off. It seems like our secondary has regressed, along with the rest of our defense, and we have an Offensive line that has not performed like we all expected. Again, COVID or not, it is what it is. I don't think that many have seen the progress we would like to have seen (including me) in many ways. But I also have to wonder if Pruitt will get another year due to the complications of the year. Either way, the football program is going to have to be rebuilt at a pace that is going to be too slow for many. That doesn't mean that we should accept losing seasons. It should mean that it is obvious to everyone that every year we are getting closer. I felt that way from Pruitt's year 1 to year 2. However, I have not felt any closer at all after this year.

Sorry for ranting. I am bored at work, and just had a lot of thoughts about where this program, and where the SEC is as a whole. I do not know whether or not Pruitt will be fired or retained. I don't know whether or not he will turn it around. The general feel that I get is that Pruitt is a guy who being a Head Coach sounded good to....until that first loss. Pruitt had been at successful programs his entire career. Hoover High School, then Alabama, then Florida State their NC year, then Georgia, then Bama again. The guy honestly has not had to deal with losing very much in his coaching career. He hasn't had to deal with the media very much outside of "Jeremy, your defense is amazing, tell us about all of the 5* NFL draft picks you have this year." He hasn't had to fight for recruits with a school that hasn't won a conference championship in over 10 years until now. He hasn't had to deal with the politics that a head coach deals with. He hasn't had to worry about radio shows, television appearances, fundraisers. And I just don't think that the Head Coaching life is what he thought it would be. Perhaps if he had been at a lower program first, it would be different, and he would have had the ability to grow into that role. But that's not what happened.

I think he loves his players, and he loves coaching. I think it's just the other things have gotten to be too much for him. And unfortunately, there's 3 options. He can either turn it around, and start winning (which would require a lot of humility and character change from him, including trusting his OC to do what needs to be done, or firing his OL coach). He can resign, which he won't do, because that would be giving up on his players. Or, he can shut down and just wait to be inevitably fired, and get his buyout, and try to do so with as much self-proclaimed integrity and dignity as possible. Then, I'm sure he would easily find another DC position at a SEC or ACC school. And would probably be just fine doing that.

I hate seeing our school like this, but I also hate the fact that despite now 4 coaches since Fulmer, we have yet to find anyone who just seems to genuinely love building a program and doing the hard work of rebuilding a program. Hopefully we get the next one right, and can start competing for the East sooner rather than later.

Again, sorry for the long post. I love the Vols. I sometimes wish I could cheer for someone else, but I'm stuck here for better or for worse.[/QUOTE
this has been posted on the internet multiple times. Not a lot new stuff here. The problem I see, when Saban retires he will leave the program in perfect shape. The support is in place, the new coach will not fail. I don’t believe he will have the success that Saban had, but they are not going away.

 

[Illinoisvolfan2]

Cliff notes version please someone

 

[BleedinOrange98]

Saban ruined the game. Hot take of the year

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

I didn't read all your post (sorry) but I think I get the gist.

Here's the thing.....

You don't have to be Saban, but you do at least have to beat him sometimes if you are supposed to be one of his primary rivals. Wonder why Tennessee is about to fire it's 5th coach since Saban? Because NONE OF THEM beat Saban..... EVER.

Auburn beat Saban
LSU beat Saban
Ole Miss beat Saban
MSU beat Saban
TAMU beat Saban
South Carolina beat Saban
Florida beat Saban
Georgia beat Saban

There's a glaring omission from that list. The last coach at Tennessee with a long tenure also beat Alabama the majority of times they played.

Tennessee, for one isn't chasing perfection. We are chasing not being total sh!t.

Also, who I wonder was the team that fired three head coaches in a row before they hired Saban? hmmmmmmmm

 

[hukester]

Well thought out. I do Saban not only changed the SEC but College Football as a whole.

 

[TNHopeful505]

For anyone else thinking that whoever replaces Saban will have a easy job.....yeah right. Ask Holly how following a legend goes. Bama will struggle hard when they dont make the playoffs every year. It is hard to maintain that level of success...it will take a VERY secure individual to take that job. And I personally think they'll have a very hard time getting someone to do it.

Again, I dont know when Saban will retire. But I just hope that when he does, we are in a stable situation with a good developer of talent who has us in solid position to win the East every year, and therefore the SEC.