The Running Game

#1
royboyvol

royboyvol

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#1
My apologies if this has been addressed somewhere already, but obviously the running game has been terrible. Dooley seems tired of answering questions about it, but I heard someone mention this point and thought I would pose the question to VN.

Why is the running game worse than last year? Personnel is pretty much the same. Similar competition. What gives?
 
#2
#2
I dunno the specific reason why our running game isn't doing well as last year. I do know that traditionally when a player or team does well one year and doesn't do as well the next is because you have more game film from the previous year. Also when the coaches are planning philosophically on what they're going to do they take into account what each team is capable and work on it more, generally during the off-season where it's the most critical to the improvement of players and implementation of schemes. Course I could be way off.

It could also be because opposing teams want the Quarterback to carry more of the load so schematically they work on stopping the run more.
 
#3
#3
It's crazy that you brought this up. I felt like the only VOL that worried about the run game. This is the first post that even questioned or urged discussion about this weakness in our game.

Do you look at any posts at all before chiming in? My lord, there is even a STICKY that talks about posting the same thing over and over. Delete this redundant thread!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#4
#4
AlcoVOLic said:
It's crazy that you brought this up. I felt like the only VOL that worried about the run game. This is the first post that even questioned or urged discussion about this weakness in our game.

Do you look at any posts at all before chiming in? My lord, there is even a STICKY that talks about posting the same thing over and over. Delete this redundant thread!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

I hate to post negative stuff on this site, but I have watched our run game all year and it stinks. We will never have success until we can effectively run the ball, and gain 150-200 yard per game on the ground. This is possibly the worse UT running "attack" I have witnessed in my 47 years as a die hard BO fan.
 
#5
#5
Maybe we should line up and run it on every play, even if the defense knows it's coming, until we see some progress in technique.
 
#7
#7
Against a good coach Chavis defense is not the time to figure out a running game problem.
 
#10
#10
There have been threads on the running game issues.

It is scheme, technique and player development related. The Cincy head coach reported to their fans/sportswriters that UT uses a sprint draw blocking scheme out of a pro set offense that is meant to disguise whether the play is a run or pass. In that scheme the O-line engages and drops back a step, then steers the D-line away from the gap of the play call. The RB takes the ball later and further back in the formation as it is with a draw play and is to run to the crease that is created.

Compare this to drive blocking, which is what Bama, LSU, etc. use and UT used to do with Majors and Fulmer (except with Clawface); and with the zone blocking scheme of Kiffin and the West Coast offenses (think Shanahan's offenses at Denver).

Whether that is our coaching staff's intent or not, that is what it looks like to the opponents. So they counter successfully with gap control defenses. They can load the box with 8-9 guys if we are in a run formation, or use 6-7 guys if we are in a passing set. Regardless, they have all of the gaps covered and plenty of time to react since we hand the ball off on a delayed basis deep in the backfield, or run a toss sweep that telegraphs where the play is going. The better SEC defenses do not even need to load the box, just adequately cover the gaps. UGA effectively handled run formations with 6-7 guys. As a result, the play action pass has little effect. We could get by with it when we had Hunter because the other teams could not double cover both Hunter and D-Rogers or risk losing gap control. Without him they can single cover everyone else while giving safety help on D-Rogers and still overload the box.

Go back and look at the prior games of CDD's and watch the O-line getting knocked back or staying neutral to the line of scrimmage when run blocking. The defense neutralizes them because they hit, stand up, and hand/arm fight. There is no leverage for drive blocking. They rarely run counters, traps, etc. That shows it is not a zone blocking scheme. In zone blocking the O-line seals off a gap against any defender that attempts to get in the running lane. A lead FB or H-back is used a lot in this scheme as well as some in drive blocking schemes to clear out penetration in the assigned gap. Drive blocking sets also use 2 TE's and double team in the assigned gap with a TE or OT on the off side going after any LBs or secondary in pursuit.

Whether the staff felt that our guys were too young (likely), or too dumb (doubtful), or too slow (maybe), or too weak (maybe) to do it the other ways I do not know. What I do know is they either chose incorrectly (probably) what scheme/techniques to use, or we have some pretty sorry players (doubtful).

Be informed. Once you know the truth you do not have to drink the kool-aid of the media and the emotional.
 
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#11
#11
Scheme. They need to change something up there or maybe the OC needs to find new employment next year. There just isn't a good reason why it's worse. Falls squarely on the coaches shoulders.
 
#12
#12
I still think it's mostly attitude. Our O line needs to line up mad as hell, mean, nasty, and with an attitude that whoever's in front of them, just stomped their momma with cleats on.
 
#13
#13
Vols4us said:
There have been threads on the running game issues.

It is scheme, technique and player development related. The Cincy head coach reported to their fans/sportswriters that UT uses a sprint draw blocking scheme out of a pro set offense that is meant to disguise whether the play is a run or pass. In that scheme the O-line engages and drops back a step, then steers the D-line away from the gap of the play call. The RB takes the ball later and further back in the formation as it is with a draw play and is to run to the crease that is created.

Compare this to drive blocking, which is what Bama, LSU, etc. use and UT used to do with Majors and Fulmer (except with Clawface); and with the zone blocking scheme of Kiffin and the West Coast offenses (think Shanahan's offenses at Denver).

Whether that is our coaching staff's intent or not, that is what it looks like to the opponents. So they counter successfully with gap control defenses. They can load the box with 8-9 guys if we are in a run formation, or use 6-7 guys if we are in a passing set. Regardless, they have all of the gaps covered and plenty of time to react since we hand the ball off on a delayed basis deep in the backfield, or run a toss sweep that telegraphs where the play is going. The better SEC defenses do not even need to load the box, just adequately cover the gaps. UGA effectively handled run formations with 6-7 guys. As a result, the play action pass has little effect. We could get by with it when we had Hunter because the other teams could not double cover both Hunter and D-Rogers or risk losing gap control. Without him they can single cover everyone else while giving safety help on D-Rogers and still overload the box.

Go back and look at the prior games of CDD's and watch the O-line getting knocked back or staying neutral to the line of scrimmage when run blocking. The defense neutralizes them because they hit, stand up, and hand/arm fight. There is no leverage for drive blocking. They rarely run counters, traps, etc. That shows it is not a zone blocking scheme. In zone blocking the O-line seals off a gap against any defender that attempts to get in the running lane. A lead FB or H-back is used a lot in this scheme as well as some in drive blocking schemes to clear out penetration in the assigned gap. Drive blocking sets also use 2 TE's and double team in the assigned gap with a TE or OT on the off side going after any LBs or secondary in pursuit.

Whether the staff felt that our guys were too young (likely), or too dumb (doubtful), or too slow (maybe), or too weak (maybe) to do it the other ways I do not know. What I do know is they either chose incorrectly (probably) what scheme/techniques to use, or we have some pretty sorry players (doubtful).

Be informed. Once you know the truth you do not have to drink the kool-aid of the media and the emotional.
Click to expand...

Great stuff, thank you.
 
#16
#16
I love Dooley but if he doesn't change the scheme he won't be here long.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#17
#17
AlcoVOLic said:
It's crazy that you brought this up. I felt like the only VOL that worried about the run game. This is the first post that even questioned or urged discussion about this weakness in our game.

Do you look at any posts at all before chiming in? My lord, there is even a STICKY that talks about posting the same thing over and over. Delete this redundant thread!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted via VolNation Mobile
Click to expand...

it's bad to drink this early.
 
#19
#19
The running game has to change, whether it be a coaching change of a style of offense change. Even really, really bad teams can run the ball for around 80 yards a game. This is on the coaches.
 
#20
#20
Vols4us said:
There have been threads on the running game issues.

It is scheme, technique and player development related. The Cincy head coach reported to their fans/sportswriters that UT uses a sprint draw blocking scheme out of a pro set offense that is meant to disguise whether the play is a run or pass. In that scheme the O-line engages and drops back a step, then steers the D-line away from the gap of the play call. The RB takes the ball later and further back in the formation as it is with a draw play and is to run to the crease that is created.

Compare this to drive blocking, which is what Bama, LSU, etc. use and UT used to do with Majors and Fulmer (except with Clawface); and with the zone blocking scheme of Kiffin and the West Coast offenses (think Shanahan's offenses at Denver).

Whether that is our coaching staff's intent or not, that is what it looks like to the opponents. So they counter successfully with gap control defenses. They can load the box with 8-9 guys if we are in a run formation, or use 6-7 guys if we are in a passing set. Regardless, they have all of the gaps covered and plenty of time to react since we hand the ball off on a delayed basis deep in the backfield, or run a toss sweep that telegraphs where the play is going. The better SEC defenses do not even need to load the box, just adequately cover the gaps. UGA effectively handled run formations with 6-7 guys. As a result, the play action pass has little effect. We could get by with it when we had Hunter because the other teams could not double cover both Hunter and D-Rogers or risk losing gap control. Without him they can single cover everyone else while giving safety help on D-Rogers and still overload the box.

Go back and look at the prior games of CDD's and watch the O-line getting knocked back or staying neutral to the line of scrimmage when run blocking. The defense neutralizes them because they hit, stand up, and hand/arm fight. There is no leverage for drive blocking. They rarely run counters, traps, etc. That shows it is not a zone blocking scheme. In zone blocking the O-line seals off a gap against any defender that attempts to get in the running lane. A lead FB or H-back is used a lot in this scheme as well as some in drive blocking schemes to clear out penetration in the assigned gap. Drive blocking sets also use 2 TE's and double team in the assigned gap with a TE or OT on the off side going after any LBs or secondary in pursuit.

Whether the staff felt that our guys were too young (likely), or too dumb (doubtful), or too slow (maybe), or too weak (maybe) to do it the other ways I do not know. What I do know is they either chose incorrectly (probably) what scheme/techniques to use, or we have some pretty sorry players (doubtful).

Be informed. Once you know the truth you do not have to drink the kool-aid of the media and the emotional.
Click to expand...

You need to post more often. Good stuff! :eek:k:
 
#21
#21
Vols4us said:
There have been threads on the running game issues.

It is scheme, technique and player development related. The Cincy head coach reported to their fans/sportswriters that UT uses a sprint draw blocking scheme out of a pro set offense that is meant to disguise whether the play is a run or pass. In that scheme the O-line engages and drops back a step, then steers the D-line away from the gap of the play call. The RB takes the ball later and further back in the formation as it is with a draw play and is to run to the crease that is created.

Compare this to drive blocking, which is what Bama, LSU, etc. use and UT used to do with Majors and Fulmer (except with Clawface); and with the zone blocking scheme of Kiffin and the West Coast offenses (think Shanahan's offenses at Denver).

Whether that is our coaching staff's intent or not, that is what it looks like to the opponents. So they counter successfully with gap control defenses. They can load the box with 8-9 guys if we are in a run formation, or use 6-7 guys if we are in a passing set. Regardless, they have all of the gaps covered and plenty of time to react since we hand the ball off on a delayed basis deep in the backfield, or run a toss sweep that telegraphs where the play is going. The better SEC defenses do not even need to load the box, just adequately cover the gaps. UGA effectively handled run formations with 6-7 guys. As a result, the play action pass has little effect. We could get by with it when we had Hunter because the other teams could not double cover both Hunter and D-Rogers or risk losing gap control. Without him they can single cover everyone else while giving safety help on D-Rogers and still overload the box.

Go back and look at the prior games of CDD's and watch the O-line getting knocked back or staying neutral to the line of scrimmage when run blocking. The defense neutralizes them because they hit, stand up, and hand/arm fight. There is no leverage for drive blocking. They rarely run counters, traps, etc. That shows it is not a zone blocking scheme. In zone blocking the O-line seals off a gap against any defender that attempts to get in the running lane. A lead FB or H-back is used a lot in this scheme as well as some in drive blocking schemes to clear out penetration in the assigned gap. Drive blocking sets also use 2 TE's and double team in the assigned gap with a TE or OT on the off side going after any LBs or secondary in pursuit.

Whether the staff felt that our guys were too young (likely), or too dumb (doubtful), or too slow (maybe), or too weak (maybe) to do it the other ways I do not know. What I do know is they either chose incorrectly (probably) what scheme/techniques to use, or we have some pretty sorry players (doubtful).

Be informed. Once you know the truth you do not have to drink the kool-aid of the media and the emotional.
Click to expand...

Mods, please consider making this post a sticky for just a little while entitled "Our Lack of a Running Game". I would imagine you are doing maintenance this weekend to do some mega-merging of all of the duplicated threads. This is a great post. Thanks so much for taking the time to explain this to the uninformed.
 
#22
#22
So what I don't understand is before the BYE week we had 4 yards total rushing against Florida. We knew for sure then our running game was in bad shape. Why couldn't they take the 2 weeks to implement a new scheme. Is this the same scheme we used last year?
 
#24
#24
phowell23 said:
So what I don't understand is before the BYE week we had 4 yards total rushing against Florida. We knew for sure then our running game was in bad shape. Why couldn't they take the 2 weeks to implement a new scheme. Is this the same scheme we used last year?
Click to expand...
It's kind of like driving down the highway then all of a sudden shift the car in reverse. They've been taught one way to do it because it fits Chaney's system. I'm not sure counters, drive blocking and pounding the rock is part of Chaney's system.
 
#25
#25
Cartervol said:
It's kind of like driving down the highway then all of a sudden shift the car in reverse. They've been taught one way to do it because it fits Chaney's system. I'm not sure counters, drive blocking and pounding the rock is part of Chaney's system.
Click to expand...

So this is the same scheme we used last year too?
 
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